Serious issues with L&D Forum

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Yep...an appeal to logic is always good....for Aspies and NT's alike.

An example: I would like feedback on what code of conduct do members think would be appropriate for this kind of sexist generalised offensiveness:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=251224

IMO it is an offensive slur aimed at all female members of WP, and I think there will have been male members who also found it offensive for the same reason. It is untrue, unfair, impolite, hurtful and.. was tolerated. Women members generally show more restraint - or at least I haven't yet seen a thread by one claiming that all men on the spectrum are ugly/overweight/weird, and I can imagine quite a fierce response if there was one.

To me it seems there is a double standard going on in L and D that has become a bit entrenched and it needs to change.

Posters who think that prefixing the words "no offence but" allows them to then make offensive sexist generalisations are being disingenuous, because they know it is offensive and are trying to circumvent reproaches for being offensive.

The person who created the thread should be warned that these sorts of generalizations cannot be tolerated, in no uncertain terms, via a PM from a Moderator (at least).

The Moderator should spell out the reasons for the creator of the thread being "called out" like that.

If the person continues along this line of thought, then more stringent sanctions might have to be implemented.

It was offensive, but stupid.

I think it was definitely meant to be an insult to all aspie women, suggesting that they are all unattractive.

It shouldn't be allowed. It's roughly the equivalent of:

Any black people out there who aren't in gangs? All the ones I know are criminals.

That's obviously extremely offensive, and is a terrible racist generalization. If people aren't going to put up with comments like that, they shouldn't allow ones like the one in that thread, either.

For some reason though, when something is really sexist, people don't seem to feel very outraged. It doesn't have the same effect.

I don't see anything wrong with men sharing their experiences with women, and women sharing their experiences with men.

I don't find it sexist for a poster to say that a certain woman refused him because he wasn't tall enough. It would be sexist to say that ALL woman refuse people because of their height, and to base their opinion of women on that "fact."

I don't find it sexist for a poster to say a certain man abused her sexually, emotionally, and physically. It would be sexist to say that ALL men sexually, emotionally, and physically abuse women, and to base their opinion of men on that "fact."

The TOS pointer in the L and D forum already cautions members against that:

This should be a forum where both men and women can be comfortable trying to figure out what is going on in their lives. Generalizations along the lines of "all women are shallow" or "all men are jerks" interfere with that, and are offensive to the members of the gender mentioned. Please be careful to NOT make conclusions or statements that extend beyond your personal experience and the particular people involved.


Perhaps members could copy and post the paragraph in any thread where this convention is breached, and message it to the moderators in future.

I second everything B19 has said.

Also, I've noticed that some of the most unhappy/disgruntled male posters from L&D make a regular habit of visiting the Women's Forum, saying things that are upsetting to people there, and then boasting that no one can stop them. They even post in threads where the OP has specifically asked for female responses only. It is abusive behavior.

One more thing I've noticed is that this scenario often occurs (not just in L&D): Person A posts something nasty. Person B makes a nasty response (though often not nearly as nasty as the original comment). Person A reports Person B. Person B's comment is removed, and nothing at all is done about Person A. This encourages Person A to continue this pattern of playing the victim. I think sometimes moderators don't delve far enough into a conversation/situation to see what is really going on. Perhaps there are not enough moderators.

BTW I'm really happy to see Alex addressing this issue.

I'm not a L&D regular, but I would hate to see any thread err to censoring posts that could be deemed offensive. The "battle of the sexes" is a cliche' for a reason, and I would hate to see debate stifled.

Have you read the WP rules regarding offensive material? These are permanent rules which have been a condition of membership since WP began. They include the terms of service:


Terms of Service
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* Members must read the terms of service. Members who violate the terms of service may be banned or warned depending upon the severity of the violation. By using the forums, you are agreeing to the terms of service.

@MjrMajorMajor

There's nothing wrong with debate. The problem is that it's not debating, it's people bashing each other. There's often no logical discussion.

For example:

Someone says something that's a generalization. I respond and detail all the reasons why that generalization is either incorrect or illogical. Then the first person ignores every last argument and misdirects the conversation to something else, conveniently bypassing any of my points. Then they go ahead and make more of the same kind of statements. It happens all the time. That's not debate. That's one person insisting on holding the same opinion no matter what, and making sure everyone else hears it, over and over.

A related issue I have also noticed in the past on L and D is the fallacious justification of "someone else did this before, so therefore it's ok for me to do it too (whenever I want) without any penalty". All members need to assume personal responsibility for their own posting behaviour, rather than seek validation from someone else's breach of the rules. The breaches become an immature/pathetic game of tag otherwise..

Two wrongs make two wrongs, not one right!

B19, that thread is a bad example, it's from 2014 and by an inactive user, his profile is not even accessible.

and even if he was recently banned after the necrothreading, no one knows him - he's totally inactive.