Women have to deal with "too nice" syndrom too

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I hope it's not me. I can't keep track of my
enemies list, these days. You don't happen
to be human, per chance?

Good grief. No, it's not you. I can only handle one would-be murderer on the lam at once.

Good. I was worried you might be mortal.

That's almost sweet.

You win for tonight.

Would you believe the first image I posted was of coleridge? then I thought nah...let's go with screech.

yes

Very true. An example from a film about van Gogh summarises it perfectly: he's telling Gaugin about a protitute he used to know. he often played with her son, and one day she told him he was the most loving, caring man she had ever met. And he saw in her eyes that she despised him for it. he walked out and never saw her again.
Maybe in a few years I will be bitter enough to be a jerk, and problem solved.

SweetPraline's note to self: Stay the hell away from NT men. They're animals.

Well, you wouldn't have done well with me. I'm not lying to myself, I know that I can't stand guys who are arrogant pricks. You may be right about most women, though.



Nope, I've always been more attracted to the nerdy types. Macho schmucks make me sick!! ! That being said, I wouldn't want the guy to be a complete wimp. Men can be strong, but nice and sweet.

Maybe your problem is that you're looking for most women, not willing to wait to find a special one who will appreciate your romantic qualities, if you still have them. I'm not volunteering, by the way. I've been married for 16 years, since I was 19 years old. That right there should tell you I'm not like most women.

I’ve never seen anyone
who could be dubbed
“too nice”
skulls WILL be clubbed
when all you’ve got to eat is lice ridden mice

Ahhhh.... in Xanadu did Kubla Khan....

You know, guys, did you ever consider that what the girls might be lying about is whether or not they find a certain individual to be "nice"?

Pbcoll's van Gogh movie anecdote made me reflect on this. Now, I have no doubt that in that situation with the prostitute (if it were real, anyhow) she actually did despise him for the goodness in him. Many people who have had very rough lives actually do hate people who are good. I am not sure why this is.

But in the case of the average, nice girl on whom a boy is likely to form a crush, I think it's unlikely that she would despise a guy for being good. More likely, she would politely lie and say she thinks he is nice, when she actually finds much of his behavior very displeasing. Or alternatively it might not even necessarily be a lie, since "nice " is a word with multiple definitions. For example, I might call a man "nice" because I think he is polite and helps many people in need... but there are many other qualities I would be looking for in a potential date. So if I reject that particular individual as a romantic interest, I am not rejecting him because he is nice. I would in a sense be rejecting him because I do not think he is nice enough.

To me it seems that some young men are too quick to presume to know the hearts and motivations of the girls who didn't date them (and vice versa of course, but moreso in this direction). I don't mean to offend, so I hope it won't be taken that way. I just think that some people would be much happier if they were to let go of the idea that "niceness" alone ought to get them the dates they want, and that if they are rejected it is means the other person doesn't actually like nice people. Besides being untrue, that concept involves logical fallacy.

Either

A) Fernando likes nice girls and will therefore like me

or

B) Fernando doesn't like nice girls

Conclusion: Fernando doesn't like me, therefore, he doesn't like nice girls.

Since both A and B could potentially both be false, we can't make this conclusion. In addition, "A" is derived from a false if/then statement in and of itself.

gwen-

That is probably true in some cases, but the underlying pattern still holds. I'm not talking about the guy nobody can stand to be around, or who has no positive qualities other than "niceness." I'm talking about the guy who provides a shoulder to cry on when your boyfriend is treating you like crap, who sometimes gets stuck raising another man's children, who has tons of female friends and no girlfriend, the one you tell your friends about "He's exactly the kind of guy I want but there's just no spark."

Cmon, don't pretend this doesn't happen

Nobody's saying that niceness should be "enough," but just to be nosy, what additional qualities would those be?

Oh, yes. I'm sure that the situations you describe do happen with some frequency. I'm not sure they're interpreted with accuracy very frequently.

I'm not saying that nice men and women who are rejected don't have any good qualities besides niceness. I'm saying that no one reasonably expect that his/her own particular set of strengths and weaknesses must be appealing to all good members of the opposite sex. Maybe you're nice and like calculus, and the girl you're after wants a nice man who likes rocketry. Maybe you're blond and for some genetic reason she cannot control, she usually likes darker hair. Most of the time we can't control with whom we feel we have that "spark" (although we can certainly control what we do with those feelings of attraction). It's not fair to be upset with someone for lack of a spark.

As an example... sometimes a nice guy will come into my life and I can't find any fault with him at all, but I'm just not moved. I don't date people like that because I think it's very important for me to be strongly attracted to my future husband. Then sometimes a very similar person comes along who I do find very attractive. When I think, "Ok, what was the difference between the two?" I generally can't even put my finger on it.

Don't guys want their love interests to be enthusiastic about them? I mean, I don't want to be crude... but if I knew that a guy didn't get all giddy at the thought of maybe someday holding and touching me, I would not pursue him.

(I'd also assert that--given my own situation--the kind of man who would refer to the prospect of adoptive/step-fatherhood as "getting stuck with another man's child" definitely doesn't qualify as "nice enough to date" in my book, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.)

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See, now you are making my argument for me. If you were honest with yourself about what you really want, it would be hard not to know why you are attracted to one person and not to another.




You're right, I'm not nice. And it's working out quite well for me.

Since you asked....

My preferences may be rather unique on this board, since I am coming at the issue in terms of chaste courtship, not casual dating. Any romantic relationship I enter would have the primary goal of discerning whether or not we would be a good pair for the rest of our lives.

I am very serious about my code of ethics and my religious beliefs and so I would be looking for someone who is in complete agreement with those beliefs. Beyond that, I like to see strong evidence of fidelity and honesty. I want to be best friends with my spouse so I would like also to see many mutual interests. Someone who is respectful and gentle, who is not a pushover but doesn't seek to overpower me, discount my intelligence, or degrade me in any way. Not completely sedentary nor obsessed with constant action. Contemplative and poetic, but not humorless. Basically happy most of the time, but with a melancholic temperament. Knows what it's like to walk on the dark side, is good but not naive. Smart and knowledgeable in one or many areas of interest, but humble about it.... so I can at once swoon for him, deeply respect him, and have confidence in him. Well-spoken, clever, and articulate in writing. Healthy sex drive, along with self-mastery over those urges. There's probably more, but that's what occurs to me at the moment.

And of course that undefinable spark has got to be there, too. I don't think the "spark" is a matter of being dishonest with oneself about what one wants. I think it's just a natural attraction that I have a tough time reducing to words. It is partly physical, but I know it also has something to do with being able to identify with what he has experienced in life. Gradually as I work these things out, they move out of "spark" territory into something I can define, but it's not an instantaneous process. Also, the spark occurs independently of some of the characteristics I rationally know I want. The trick is finding people who incorporate both.

Maybe some of the trouble you see in women is that some women go for a guy based on "spark" alone, rather than considering other matters. We're pretty much taught to do this in today's world--look at any love story in any popular movie or song. People just "fall" in love--which is to say they were attracted to one another and proceeded forward without any thought. I've done this in the past, for sure. Nobody ever taught me any differently and I had to teach myself.

That's interesting. So you don't care if he's shorter than you, bald, shy, makes less money, and is not professionally successful?

See, this is what I'm talking about, ladies. Nobody's criticizing you for being attracted to who you are attracted to. We just want you to be honest and stop jerking us around.