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Do you believe in soul mates?

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rdos
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11 Jul 2018, 11:05 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
It's obvious that atheists don't believe in soulmates.


I think that is incorrect. I think being an atheist is related to not believing in organized religion or a God. At least, that's what is related to neurodiversity. Spiritual beliefs are quite different from organized religion, and those are more common among neurodiverse people. Personally, I'm an atheist, I consider myself as a spiritual person, and I believe in soulmates.



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11 Jul 2018, 11:10 am

So now all of you WP "atheists" believe now in souls, soulmates and what else....karma energy?

Geez, WRONG planet.....



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11 Jul 2018, 11:11 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
You probably define it as “highly compatible person who you click with” and that may be more than one person. From atheist perspective, “soulmate” is just a matter or probability.


That's a strange idea. So, you mean that atheists believe in the law of big numbers when it comes to dating? I don't think there is any such connection.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
But I have the impression that religious/spiritual people define the term “soulmate” totally differently, it is more literally related to the soul; which we atheists don’t believe in, as if they believe that God (or whatever higher power they believe in according to their faith), created pairs of souls and humans spend their lives to find their “lost other part”.
From atheist perspective, this whole concept of God creating a soul(s) destined to be compatible just for you is ridiculous and makes no sense.


I think you can believe in a soul without buying the concept of a God. I think it is more that organized religion has hijacked the concept of the soul.



rdos
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11 Jul 2018, 11:18 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
So now all of you WP "atheists" believe now in souls, soulmates and what else....karma energy?

Geez, WRONG planet.....


This is what Wikipedia says about atheism:
Quote:
Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities


This is what Wikipedia says about spirituality:
Quote:
In modern times the emphasis is on subjective experience of a sacred dimension[1] and the "deepest values and meanings by which people live,"[2][3] often in a context separate from organized religious institutions.[4] Modern systems of spirituality may include a belief in a supernatural (beyond the known and observable) realm,[5] personal growth,[6] a quest for an ultimate or sacred meaning,[7] religious experience,[8] or an encounter with one's own "inner dimension."[9]


At least according to these definitions, it's very possible to be atheist and spiritual. So, the atheists here cannot be assumed to be non-spiritual, even if some surely are.



rdos
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11 Jul 2018, 11:23 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
Shinku Tora wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Shinku Tora wrote:
I don’t believe in anything that has not been proven by modern day science. That’s not to say it can’t exist, but there’s little point to worrying or placing bets on only what might be. So no, no soul mates. People just make transactions with each other, or settle.


That’s a very cold way of putting it. All the love stories and love songs in history are based on a transaction?

I wonder why books and songs about banking aren’t more popular...


They are based on romanticism and escapism. There’s a reason why “it’s not like it is in the movies” is a common saying these days. It’s not far off from the idea of religion being borne of seeking meaning that isn’t there.


You’re right in saying that it’s not like it is in the movies.

It’s better.


Right. It's a lot better. That's because you cannot feel it in the movies, which you can IRL.



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11 Jul 2018, 11:27 am

Gallia wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Gallia wrote:
i think just because infatuation occurs due to chemical reactions doesn't take away from the magic of the experience.
Any 'magic' that occurs is called 'limerance' -- a state of mind which results from a romantic attraction to another person and typically includes obsessive thoughts and fantasies and a desire to form or maintain a relationship with the object of love and have one's feelings reciprocated. The physiological correlations of intense limerence can include seizure-like trembling, pallor, flushing, heart palpitations, pupil dilation and general weakness. Awkwardness, stuttering, shyness, and confusion predominate at the behavioral level.

And you call all of this 'magic'? :roll:


well, no that's the headfuck part. the magic happens when your infatuation is reciprocated and then it grows into something meaningful. being obsessive about a person who's not into you is just a waste of mental energy.


Of course.

I think the best soul mate connection happens after a strong crush that is reciprocated, including a lot of obsessive thoughts. Once the crush vanishes, the connection stays. The infatuation is a 'tool' the brain uses to trigger a strong connection, and there really is no good replacement for it.



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11 Jul 2018, 12:29 pm

rdos wrote:
Yes, I do. I think I've found my soul mate. :wink:

Is the fleshlight that good? :mrgreen:


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rdos
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11 Jul 2018, 12:55 pm

LoneLoyalWolf wrote:
rdos wrote:
Yes, I do. I think I've found my soul mate. :wink:

Is the fleshlight that good? :mrgreen:


It's the only time I've experienced a true mind-to-mind connection and it is truly amazing. I think we could be completely non-verbal and still be able to communicate everything that is necessary. We plan meeting each other's through the mind-to-mind connection and can find each other at any time we want to without any modern technology. There can be no secrets and no lies. If it wasn't for this, I probably wouldn't believe in soul mates.



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11 Jul 2018, 1:02 pm

^I am happy for you. Wish you much happiness in that relationship.


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12 Jul 2018, 3:34 am

Just because something is connected with brain chemical reactions doesn't mean it's not true. When you see a car that's about to hit you, you can only experience it through your brain (elektro)chemical reactions. Does it mean it doesn't exists? Of course not (and if you think it is not real, you will be quickly eliminated by it). All brains evolved to reflect real environmental properties (otherwise it would be just a waste of resources), those who doesn't do that are mentally ill, and don't have too much chances to pass their genes further (see the example). Of course that reflection can't be perfect, and in such case overreaction is quite understandable, seeing the danger even if there's no one is more beneficial than not seeing it when there is, that doesn't mean the whole concept of danger is false. The less developed the brain is, the bigger chances of some mistake or omission, we are definitely better at recognizing the reality than animals, but we shouldn't assume we're perfect at it. We can think someone is our soulmate even if s/he isn't, but that doesn't mean there's no soulmate at all, it just means that our evolution hasn't finished yet, and our brains are still not perfect at recognizing them. And from definition soulmates are very rare, so the probability of meeting the real one is small, so naturally there will be more experiences of finding fake ones, just like the experiences of fake dangers. But that doesn't mean there must be soulmate for everyone.


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12 Jul 2018, 8:29 am

I really do wish people would stop romanticizing the concept of 'love'. I mean, humans are little more than poo-flinging apes that have evolved enough intellect to have both spoken and written langue, to use fire, and to create a global communications network. In spite of all of this progress, there are still people who believe that there is but one person out of 7.6 billion other who was specifically born to be their "soul-mate" -- the one-and-only person who is destined to fulfill their every need, and who can inspire them to the greatest heights of creativity and self-expression.

The flaw in this concept is that there is no guaranty that any one person will ever find his or her "soul-mate". Given the opportunity to pick one person out of 7.6 billion people, and to have that one person to be your "soul-mate" is roughly 0.00000001316 percent -- there is a greater chance of winning the next Powerball lottery (about 0.000000342 percent) or of being struck by lightning (about 0.0001 percent).

And, yes, that "dizzy, dancing way you feel" when you've found your "soul-mate" really is nothing more than a surge and flood of endorphins and hormones causing euphoria and releasing other chemicals, like oxytocin -- the "love drug" -- it's what new mothers feel when they nurse their babies for the first time. It emotionally 'bonds' them to their babies.

So, while the most accurate definition for the term "soul-mate" may be "The one-and-only person whose very existence induces feelings of euphoria", it all comes down to a simple matter of brain chemistry.

Only this, and nothing more.


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12 Jul 2018, 8:31 am

I believe in Love...whatever its origins.



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12 Jul 2018, 8:37 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe in Love...whatever its origins.
Well ... DUH! Love exists; it's just nonsensical to attribute the induction of its associated feelings to anything other than hormones and neurochemicals.


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12 Jul 2018, 8:42 am

The neurotransmitters and all that are just the basis.

It’s how we make us of them. How we react to them.

Yep....duh!

But it feels damn good when things come together.



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12 Jul 2018, 8:44 am

Fnord wrote:
I really do wish people would stop romanticizing the concept of 'love'. I mean, humans are little more than poo-flinging apes that have evolved enough intellect to have both spoken and written langue, to use fire, and to create a global communications network. In spite of all of this progress, there are still people who believe that there is but one person out of 7.6 billion other who was specifically born to be their "soul-mate" -- the one-and-only person who is destined to fulfill their every need, and who can inspire them to the greatest heights of creativity and self-expression.

The flaw in this concept is that there is no guaranty that any one person will ever find his or her "soul-mate". Given the opportunity to pick one person out of 7.6 billion people, and to have that one person to be your "soul-mate" is roughly 0.00000001316 percent -- there is a greater chance of winning the next Powerball lottery (about 0.000000342 percent) or of being struck by lightning (about 0.0001 percent).

And, yes, that "dizzy, dancing way you feel" when you've found your "soul-mate" really is nothing more than a surge and flood of endorphins and hormones causing euphoria and releasing other chemicals, like oxytocin -- the "love drug" -- it's what new mothers feel when they nurse their babies for the first time. It emotionally 'bonds' them to their babies.

So, while the most accurate definition for the term "soul-mate" may be "The one-and-only person whose very existence induces feelings of euphoria", it all comes down to a simple matter of brain chemistry.

Only this, and nothing more.


Yeah, all this.

It's easy to ascribe magic to something you don't understand. If someone doesn't understand what's happening in their body, the literal chemicals that make up the soup that is their brain, I can see why they may believe in things like soul mates or other such mystical beliefs. And anyone who has ever experienced the effects of Ecstasy can tell you that the "love" feelings can be manipulated artificially.

The truth is - I don't know - more functional and mundane I guess. It takes away that magic that people seem to crave in their lives.


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12 Jul 2018, 8:58 am

Fnord wrote:
And, yes, that "dizzy, dancing way you feel" when you've found your "soul-mate" really is nothing more than a surge and flood of endorphins and hormones causing euphoria and releasing other chemicals, like oxytocin -- the "love drug"


You got the causality wrong. It's infatuation that floods the brain with "chemicals", and so they are markers of love, not the other way around. Which means that the "chemicals" you are talking about are irrelevant. It's part of the brain's behavioral algorithms to get a crush, which starts the "chemical" process you are talking about. It's the same as the relation between oxytocin and happiness. It's happiness that floods the brain with oxytocin, not the other way around. This is a common misunderstanding in biolological psychiatry aimed at pushing various drugs to affect natural processes.

Fnord wrote:
-- it's what new mothers feel when they nurse their babies for the first time. It emotionally 'bonds' them to their babies.


Exactly, and this is an important process part of our evolution that makes sure that mothers take care of their children. Bonding is just as important in relationships as in parent-infant bonds. The strenght of the bond largely determines the stability of a relationship.

Fnord wrote:
So, while the most accurate definition for the term "soul-mate" may be "The one-and-only person whose very existence induces feelings of euphoria", it all comes down to a simple matter of brain chemistry.

Only this, and nothing more.


No, it comes down to the fact that finding a soulmate creates euphoria and infatuation which alters brain chemistry.

Besides, Wikipedia defines soulmate like this:
Quote:
A soulmate is a person with whom one has a feeling of deep or natural affinity.


There is no requirement that each person has only a single soulmate, so your percentages are irrelevant. I'd even claim that for neurodiverse people, the main requirement for becoming soulmates is compatibility (both must be neurodiverse), and that they need to use the natural courtship process instead of dating.