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Being a naturally shy, whimpy, awkward unmanly guy

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hurtloam
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15 Oct 2018, 1:41 pm

Citymale wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Hey citymale, you say you have learned aggressive behaviour. I hear you. My family have a tendency towards communicating with sarcasm, amongst other darker things.

I realised that there was a bad dynamic in my family, so I've been reading up on psychology and communication for years, gleaning what I can to improve my attitude and learning how to react to my family in a way that will grease the wheels.

It can be done. We still have ups and downs, but things are a lot better.


I think I am just not a good person to be with as a friend, companion or family member as a result of not understanding, not being naturally smart in that way and having bad habits and behaviors.


I genuinely don't believe there is such a thing as a bad person. We all have good qualities and we can all work on parts of our personality that we don't like. I will always be a bit slow on the uptake when it comes to understanding what other people are going on about. I just don't pick things up quickly, but I've found other ways of getting along with people.

I really am a lot less sarcastic than I used to be. It's really tempting to be sarcastic sometimes, but I have to bite my tongue because I've learned that it just doesn't help to give in to sarastic sniped in certain situations.



Citymale
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15 Oct 2018, 3:41 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Citymale wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Hey citymale, you say you have learned aggressive behaviour. I hear you. My family have a tendency towards communicating with sarcasm, amongst other darker things.

I realised that there was a bad dynamic in my family, so I've been reading up on psychology and communication for years, gleaning what I can to improve my attitude and learning how to react to my family in a way that will grease the wheels.

It can be done. We still have ups and downs, but things are a lot better.


I think I am just not a good person to be with as a friend, companion or family member as a result of not understanding, not being naturally smart in that way and having bad habits and behaviors.


I genuinely don't believe there is such a thing as a bad person. We all have good qualities and we can all work on parts of our personality that we don't like. I will always be a bit slow on the uptake when it comes to understanding what other people are going on about. I just don't pick things up quickly, but I've found other ways of getting along with people.

I really am a lot less sarcastic than I used to be. It's really tempting to be sarcastic sometimes, but I have to bite my tongue because I've learned that it just doesn't help to give in to sarastic sniped in certain situations.


Bad as in a bad driver - someone who sucks at driving as opppsed to someone who intentionally drives badly. Or a bad painting. Or a bad meal which lacks ingredients and execution.



RetroGamer87
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15 Oct 2018, 4:42 pm

sly279 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
If you live in a city a car is not necessary. Public transport is usually good enough to get around. I'm an odd one living in a city with a car. Most of my friends don't have one and get the bus everywhere. I wouldn't bat an eyelid at a city guy who didn't have a car.

Living further out it becomes more inconvenient not to have a car. It's a hassle to meet up because buses are not so regular. In all my adult life I've always had a car. Not always good cars, but they got me from A-B. I do admit that a guy in a small town without a car may make me wonder, if I can manage to maintain a car, why can't he?

Different cultures, we mass produced cars so everyone could afford them. Since then the idea is every last person should own a car or two. If you don’t you're a loser.
Why else would so many women who have a car require a man who has a car?

The Japanese mass produced cars yet you don’t need a car in Japan.


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RetroGamer87
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15 Oct 2018, 4:45 pm

314pe wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
I do admit that a guy in a small town without a car may make me wonder, if I can manage to maintain a car, why can't he?

Maybe it's less about a car itself and more about some other qualities and a car is just an indicator?
To own a car you need at least some coordination to drive it, responsibility to maintain it, financial skills to afford the running costs, etc.

I know people who've waisted all their money on cars. I don’t think they had financial skill.

Financial skill comes not from what you spend but from what you don’t spend. Thrift is the most important financial skill.


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sly279
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15 Oct 2018, 7:16 pm

hurtloam wrote:
sly279 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Citymale wrote:
Is there any hope for a guy who naturally is - shy, whimpy, lack aggression toward people who hurt me or my partner, cannot stand up for myself, not socially savvy or aggressive, but tend to have internal aggression toward my own family like even my mom.

Women found me attractive and mysterious, but were turned off once they saw these qualities.

Basically, I am realizing that I am naturally a weak man and feel a lack of confidence about becoming a strong man.


My grandfather was a "strong man". He was not big or vengeful or physically aggressive. He did not get in to physical altercations, but he had self respect, respect for others, and had values and principals he believed in and stood by.

You do not need to be the epitome of stereotyped masculinity. Almost no man is. You just need to be a decent person with some values and principals and boundaries you are willing to defend and that really goes for both men and women.


Yes. It seems that those here with the worst issues are those with no determination or strong goals or values. Wishy washy and defeatist is not attractive.


Ouch, guess only one type of man is attractive then, so much for all types. Not every is ambitious. Why’s everyone have to be ambitious and goal oriented


Goals don't always have to be under the category of consumerism and corporate America. I love the outdoors. So my goals are small. I plan trips to nice places and explore them. I like guy who also likes the outdoors. His goals are a bit bigger. He wants to climb mountains. He does... I don't go with him. I'm not that fit.

I have no idea what his career goals are and I don't care. My only career goal is to have a job that doesn't make me want to curl up in a ball and hide. I've been through about 20 jobs to find this one that I feel comfortable in. I kept on moving till I got what I wanted.


My goals are to just keep living and play games I want to.
I don’t think most people would consider yiur goals goals. That’s just activities and vacations. When people say goals they mean where do you see yourself in 30 years? Career, relationships, family, etc. by yiur definition everyone has goals even little kids. So there’s be no losers. But society and most people mean ambition. They mean climbing the Corp ladder to success, having a family and owning a home. Which is why they say people who don’t have or want those are goalless losers.
I wouldn’t say your goals are goals or strong goals.
I wanted to own a certain gun is that a goal? Since I eventually got it was I determined?
How do I compare to someone who’s goal was to become a ceo and did it or someone with determination to become a lawyer and went to school for 8 years, that’s goal that’s determination. You had goals and determination yiu got a real job, car, moved cities.

I don’t have goals or determination as yiu said. So I’ll always be alone. :cry:



sly279
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15 Oct 2018, 7:30 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
If you live in a city a car is not necessary. Public transport is usually good enough to get around. I'm an odd one living in a city with a car. Most of my friends don't have one and get the bus everywhere. I wouldn't bat an eyelid at a city guy who didn't have a car.

Living further out it becomes more inconvenient not to have a car. It's a hassle to meet up because buses are not so regular. In all my adult life I've always had a car. Not always good cars, but they got me from A-B. I do admit that a guy in a small town without a car may make me wonder, if I can manage to maintain a car, why can't he?

Different cultures, we mass produced cars so everyone could afford them. Since then the idea is every last person should own a car or two. If you don’t you're a loser.
Why else would so many women who have a car require a man who has a car?

The Japanese mass produced cars yet you don’t need a car in Japan.


They didn’t mass produce cars until after ww2
You’re missing the point henery ford wanted to make it so every single last American owned a car. That is the cultural mindset if Americans, not Australians, it Europeans not Japanese’s. We are w culture built around consumerism and cars. Owning a car is a required satisfying symbol. You’ll never get our culture yiu didn’t grow up in it. Car equals adulthood, freedom, etc.
if you dont own a car your considered a irresponsible childish loser.
Getting a car at 16 is a right of passage here for a lot of people. Our high schools have tons of parking for kids with cars, do yours? Most middle class family’s have 2-6 cars, the parents each have one and each kid over 16 has one. I’m willing to bet you don’t see that in Europe except for the wealthy.
In the U.S., the ratio was 1:1.3 among a population of almost 310 million – the highest vehicle-to-person ratio in the world.
Yours is 1:.73
You have 12,474,044 cars
The us has 263.6 million registered cars, not all cars are registered.
UK has 30.9 million
My uncle owns 3 cars.
This guy I knew who was single owned 3. He buys new one to replace one every 10ish years.
Cars are very important in us culture.



314pe
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16 Oct 2018, 12:06 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Financial skill comes not from what you spend but from what you don’t spend. Thrift is the most important financial skill.

Very hard to market when dating, but important in relationship.



The_Face_of_Boo
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16 Oct 2018, 1:53 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
If you live in a city a car is not necessary. Public transport is usually good enough to get around. I'm an odd one living in a city with a car. Most of my friends don't have one and get the bus everywhere. I wouldn't bat an eyelid at a city guy who didn't have a car.

Living further out it becomes more inconvenient not to have a car. It's a hassle to meet up because buses are not so regular. In all my adult life I've always had a car. Not always good cars, but they got me from A-B. I do admit that a guy in a small town without a car may make me wonder, if I can manage to maintain a car, why can't he?

Different cultures, we mass produced cars so everyone could afford them. Since then the idea is every last person should own a car or two. If you don’t you're a loser.
Why else would so many women who have a car require a man who has a car?

The Japanese mass produced cars yet you don’t need a car in Japan.


Hint: exports.



Citymale
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16 Oct 2018, 2:11 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
If you live in a city a car is not necessary. Public transport is usually good enough to get around. I'm an odd one living in a city with a car. Most of my friends don't have one and get the bus everywhere. I wouldn't bat an eyelid at a city guy who didn't have a car.

Living further out it becomes more inconvenient not to have a car. It's a hassle to meet up because buses are not so regular. In all my adult life I've always had a car. Not always good cars, but they got me from A-B. I do admit that a guy in a small town without a car may make me wonder, if I can manage to maintain a car, why can't he?

Different cultures, we mass produced cars so everyone could afford them. Since then the idea is every last person should own a car or two. If you don’t you're a loser.
Why else would so many women who have a car require a man who has a car?

The Japanese mass produced cars yet you don’t need a car in Japan.


Hint: exports.


This is what you are doing - “ (aspies) may go off on tangents during a conversation..”



sly279
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16 Oct 2018, 3:00 am

O.o



BTDT
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16 Oct 2018, 10:16 am

hurtloam wrote:
Hey citymale, you say you have learned aggressive behaviour. I hear you. My family have a tendency towards communicating with sarcasm, amongst other darker things.

I realised that there was a bad dynamic in my family, so I've been reading up on psychology and communication for years, gleaning what I can to improve my attitude and learning how to react to my family in a way that will grease the wheels.

It can be done. We still have ups and downs, but things are a lot better.


Some of us have the determined that the best way to deal with bad relatives is to move away.
I think the USA is one of the better countries for doing this. It covers many time zones. Employers often have no difficulty hiring someone from across the country if you wish to move. Some big companies actually encourage people to move to their home office.



hurtloam
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17 Oct 2018, 12:23 pm

BTDT wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Hey citymale, you say you have learned aggressive behaviour. I hear you. My family have a tendency towards communicating with sarcasm, amongst other darker things.

I realised that there was a bad dynamic in my family, so I've been reading up on psychology and communication for years, gleaning what I can to improve my attitude and learning how to react to my family in a way that will grease the wheels.

It can be done. We still have ups and downs, but things are a lot better.


Some of us have the determined that the best way to deal with bad relatives is to move away.
I think the USA is one of the better countries for doing this. It covers many time zones. Employers often have no difficulty hiring someone from across the country if you wish to move. Some big companies actually encourage people to move to their home office.


Ah, yeah. I missed that bit out. I have moved away too. Close enough to be able to go and visit for the day, but not so close that we smother each other.



hurtloam
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17 Oct 2018, 12:35 pm

sly279 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:

Goals don't always have to be under the category of consumerism and corporate America. I love the outdoors. So my goals are small. I plan trips to nice places and explore them. I like guy who also likes the outdoors. His goals are a bit bigger. He wants to climb mountains. He does... I don't go with him. I'm not that fit.

I have no idea what his career goals are and I don't care. My only career goal is to have a job that doesn't make me want to curl up in a ball and hide. I've been through about 20 jobs to find this one that I feel comfortable in. I kept on moving till I got what I wanted.


My goals are to just keep living and play games I want to.
I don’t think most people would consider yiur goals goals. That’s just activities and vacations. When people say goals they mean where do you see yourself in 30 years? Career, relationships, family, etc. by yiur definition everyone has goals even little kids. So there’s be no losers. But society and most people mean ambition. They mean climbing the Corp ladder to success, having a family and owning a home. Which is why they say people who don’t have or want those are goalless losers.
I wouldn’t say your goals are goals or strong goals.
I wanted to own a certain gun is that a goal? Since I eventually got it was I determined?
How do I compare to someone who’s goal was to become a ceo and did it or someone with determination to become a lawyer and went to school for 8 years, that’s goal that’s determination. You had goals and determination yiu got a real job, car, moved cities.

I don’t have goals or determination as yiu said. So I’ll always be alone. :cry:


Well, it's not a goal I would have myself, but yes, deciding that you wanted to own a gun was a goal and you made it happen, therefore you achieved your goal.

Achieving larger goals is made up of achieving many, many much smaller goals. That person who became a lawyer had to make little goals. Like "if I want to be a lawyer I will get these grades in high school first, I will attend this college, I will move to this area. this week I will study for x amount of hours and I will memorise x thing." There must be other things, but I don't know what it takes to be a lawyer, so this isn't my best analogy...

I've read motivational articles about making goals and they all say that you have to set smaller goals first before you can reach the bigger goals. So I really genuinely believe that little goals still count as goals. Even if they are just hobby things then they can make a person more interesting, they can make life more enjoyable.

I've found an example that resonates with me. I've bought a house that needs a bit of work. It feels overwhelming to me at the moment. This is good advice about setting smaller goals.

Quote:
Make your short-term goals a stepping-stone to a long-term goal: For example, if your goal is to renovate your house, then you might want to start with painting your room. Focus on the short-term goal of painting your room and know that there are other goals that will follow after you have completed the first task, so that your ultimate goal is achieved.

https://www.knownsuccess.com/short-term-goals.php



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17 Oct 2018, 12:48 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
314pe wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
I do admit that a guy in a small town without a car may make me wonder, if I can manage to maintain a car, why can't he?

Maybe it's less about a car itself and more about some other qualities and a car is just an indicator?
To own a car you need at least some coordination to drive it, responsibility to maintain it, financial skills to afford the running costs, etc.

I know people who've waisted all their money on cars. I don’t think they had financial skill.

Financial skill comes not from what you spend but from what you don’t spend. Thrift is the most important financial skill.


This is a very important point. And it's just made me realise a truth I've omitted here. At my most financially difficult period in life my Dad paid for my car to pass it's M.O.T. (Whichi is a test in the UK your car has to do every year to make sure it's roadworthy and safe to drive. It fails if it needs work done)

So... I wasn't always so good at looking after myself financially I cannot be allowed to judge others. What was that saying about not trying to take the straw out of your brother's eye when you have a rafter in your own...



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17 Oct 2018, 12:51 pm

Citymale wrote:
I sometimes see shy people and wander, “how could anyone get close to them, it’s impossible due to some thing that they do, that only if they did not do it, they would have an oppprtuniry with people, but the way they are thinking or acting makes it impossible from the outside point of view.”

I would say 70% of me is unattractive inside. Like what you said about getting annoyed with people who are wimpy like you. You have to know what you want, before you can stand up and ask for it. You have to be able to do something, before you can grab someone by the hand figuratively and lead them to do it together. I guess we both lack experience and agressive biological drive


Yeah I know what you mean.

It's weird because there are a lot of people like us but if we're not attracted to them it doesn't make much of a difference, then you gotta find some perfect balance - someone who accepts us as who we are but who aren't too much like ourselves but maybe a little bit at least. It's a struggle to be attracted to people you aren't compatible with. A theory of mine is low self confidence though - if you dislike yourself you'll dislike anyone remotely similar to yourself too.



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17 Oct 2018, 6:06 pm

I quite like women who are like me . I’d rather help them and make them feel better then feel disinterested in them.
Wish there was a lady who instead of seeing me as worthless would want to help me and make me happy and I’d do the same for her.