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BellaDonna
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13 Jan 2009, 12:58 pm

Gremmie wrote:
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Women only allow guys to have sex with them when the guy has fufilled their emotional needs and has given them reason to trust the guy enough for sex.


For me that hasn't been so true. I have been in relationships where we have not been getting along and at the times don't really like each other at all but we still have had sex. It is meaningless. Still it is enjoyable. During the interaction I don't think nothing of the other person and don't think they do me either. It's just sex and when it's finished - I don't say nothing and just leave or vice versa they go. We don't even speak to each other. Apart from saying do you wanna do this or them asking me to.



AutisticMalcontent
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13 Jan 2009, 3:15 pm

ManErg wrote:
Ancalagon wrote:
AutisticMalcontent wrote:
Women only allow guys to have sex with them when the guy has fufilled their emotional needs and has given them reason to trust the guy enough for sex.

Ah -- so sex is the coin that women use to pay men back for sucking up to them? I'm glad the OP disagrees with you here, otherwise he might just suck up to a girl until she put out and then dump her.


Good point, Ancalagon. AutisticMalcontents idea of women as people who need a "guy" to "fulfill their emotional needs" would be more offensive to many women than anything the OP said.

Having said that, in some cases, this *is* the way relationships work. Sex is the reward given by the female for the male behaving in a certain way. Althouth common enough, I believe this to be dysfunctional, though.

AutisticMalcontent wrote:
Prostitutes are sad people, ...... I'm sure I've been single longer than you have, and I haven't turned to prostitutes.


How can you profess to know what they're really like if you've never been to one? You could say the same generalization for any career: computer programmers are sad introverts, accountants are dull. These statements say nothing about the career in question, but they say a lot about how we like to offer our opinions on subjects we actually know next to nothing about. I've never turned to prostitutes either, but I can understand why they exist and I don't think it fair to denigrate either the prostitutes or their clients. Realistically, given that it's been around for thousands of years, the vast majority of 'acts of prostitution' have resulted in little harm to anybody apart from the anger engendered in the holier-than-thou, repressed, self-righteous religious fanatics.

If you can't grow your own food, you buy it. Simple as that. Of course the self-sufficient look down on the morally bankrupt who shop at Tescos, but that is the nature of us. The problem is not in the free actions taken by adults, but in the minds of the others who are not content just to accept the difference. No, they have to be scornful to those who behave differently to them.


Accountants, computer programmers, and whoever else, saying they lead, dull boring lives would be a generalization because we don't know how they live their lives individually.

But to the matter at hand, prostitutes. We know what prostitutes do by profession. Tell me, what self respecting woman would let guys have sex with her for money? Tell me, is that something you think is "honorable" or merely a "job". Why would a woman to do such a thing? Something isn't quite right with the picture.

Yes, I suppose from a non-religious standpoint, it can be viewed as "just a job" or an acceptable occupation available for women to be engaged in, so that can men let their sexual needs out for a price. However, religiously speaking, it is sinful behavior in God's eyes. I'm not cursing prostitutes and saying they're going to burn in Hell, that is not for me to say, that is for God to say and God to say alone. However, He has made it perfectly clear through scripture in the Bible that sexual immorality of any kind is sinful. Prostitutes can do whatever they want, I have no say in what they do, but I know that what they do is sinful to God.

I have my own sins too, and I don't think I'm perfect, but pointing out that it is considered sinful under God's eyes, as it is written in the Bible. I'm sure you're going to say that I'm judging them and "judge not lest you yourself be judged", but I never say anything hateful or cruel about them or thought them unworthy of life, and everything I've said has been backed up by scripture, these are not my base opinions, but God's words. I'm just pointing out that they must be sad people if they take delight in what they do, or they do it because of some other reason.



AutisticMalcontent
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13 Jan 2009, 3:36 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
AutisticMalcontent wrote:
Of course, there are prostitutes who enjoy their profession and enjoy making money off their clientele'. I pity them, because they don't realize that their sexual sins, if continued and unrepented for, will lead their damnation to Hell. It says in Corinthians "Do you not know that the wicked shall never inherit the Kingdom of Heaven?" and it goes into a long list of people who won't go into heaven, and sexual sinners who continue in their sin and do not repent are one of those.

I'm not excusing the actions of prostitutes, but I am explaining that some of them are victims in their own right, although they continue to sin.


Funny, I thought it was Jesus who called the shots on who got into heaven, not you...

I'm not saying I condone the acts of willing prostitutes either, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm not going to judge them for anything they choose to do... Judge not, lest ye be judged...


Jesus has the final say in all matters, I'm not arguing about that. But the Bible is God's own Word, correct? So everything said in it is exactly what God/Jesus wants and expects of us as his children.

I'm sure you remember the story where a bunch of Jews were about to stone a women because she was an adulteress. Jesus told them "He who is without sin cast the first stone", and they left. Then He said to the woman "Stand up, your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more".

Jesus wants to save as many people as possible on this Earth as He can because He loves us all. Those who accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and repent of their sins will be forgiven, as the Bible says. I'm not saying prostitutes are cannon fodder for Hell, but I am saying that if they don't repent of their sins and continue in their sin when they die, they will go to Hell, the Bible makes it abundantly clear. These are not my words, but God's Word. As long as there is life and breath in a person, they have a chance to be saved, but when they're dead, it's game over.

"Judging" would be calling/thinking them unworthy of life, and thinking that they are disgusting, vile, immoral women who are automatically Hell bound after they die. We all are guilty of sin, but God makes it clear the kinds of people who will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven if they continue in their sin.

Revelations 21:6-8

"He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."



MissConstrue
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13 Jan 2009, 5:16 pm

I try and follow the path of Kali Ma so most of Jesus/God's righteousness is irrevelant to me... /:


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BellaDonna
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13 Jan 2009, 6:22 pm

Women get forced to play games. Like the sex roles of what men want. It may seem subtle and not noticable to some and to others it's very noticable. I guess it depends on the guy. However, most men are sexually domineering and aggressive in ways that women are not.

I have experimented and tried to be as domineering in that respect; as to feel equal and as strong. Even more sexually aggressive than they but it does never seem to work. It always feels like they take over. Most women enjoy that, as I do and pleasantly get use to. It feels natural to me.

I can be pretty bossy and domineering in relationships. With my own sexual fetishes and have noticed that my boyfriends have really enjoyed me going off with my own style.

However, I find that I'm the one that mostly does as I'm told or as directed to. Naturally I'm submissive. I have rebelled against this with experimenting but have found that it has really not made any difference. When push comes to shoove - it is just the same' ol same 'ol. That doesn't bother me because sex could never bore me. I love it.

It doesn't seem to matter what postion your in. Wether your the person that chooses or your on top - it still feels as though men are the sexually dominant.



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13 Jan 2009, 6:39 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
I try and follow the path of Kali Ma so most of Jesus/God's righteousness is irrevelant to me... /:


that indiana jones guy who takes out your heart


and f**k jesus he has no place in my life
i'll have sex without thinking he is watching me
(he is a creepy guy)



z0rp
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13 Jan 2009, 6:56 pm

*stares at the dominos advertisement in the bottom left corner of the screen while stomach demands dinner*

Oh, sorry, I was a bit sidetracked. Now, now, where were we? Oh yes, the guy asking how he can get sex "with female". (Love the grammar by the way)

My tips,
Unless you're either lucky or willing to put up with a lot of s**t, you're not getting into a woman's pants unless she happens to be a hooker, or an escort or whatever. Assessing your situation, I'd recommend just getting a hooker and not telling your friends. Is that really that hard? That's mainly all I've got to say.

Kilroy wrote:
MissConstrue wrote:
I try and follow the path of Kali Ma so most of Jesus/God's righteousness is irrevelant to me... /:


that indiana jones guy who takes out your heart


and f**k jesus he has no place in my life
i'll have sex without thinking he is watching me
(he is a creepy guy)

Jesus likes his porn live.


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v0lume
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13 Jan 2009, 7:09 pm

AutisticMalcontent wrote:
I find unbefitting of men and beneath them to go for prostitutes, because prostitution is a false love, a cheap thrill that isn't love, and religiously speaking, it is immoral.

Thats because it wasn't supposed to be love. There are many thrills in life that has nothing to do with love. Casual sex happens to be one of them.
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I am willing to argue that many prostitutes were originally sad people who had something dramatic that happened to them to go after such a lifestyle. Some women are prostitutes because of financial desperation, but I also believe that many prostitutes were victims of sexual abuse or physical abuse before they became prostitutes. I believe several of them are like this, and I'm sure they take no delight in their profession. What self respecting woman would enjoy having guys she doesn't even know using her as a pin cushion?

Excuse me, but I know that many self respecting women like to have guys use them as a pin cushion, simply because they are using them for pleasure as well. The point in these actions are fun and relief of stress, which is something both sides benifit from. Also, there are just as many sad prostitutes as there are happy ones, so saying most of them have a tragic life story isn't accurate.
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A woman who has self respect for herself and a sense of morality will not let guys have their way with her for money or anything else. As I stated above, something went wrong, whether it was financial desperation or sexual/physical abuse that altered that girl's/woman's perspective of themselves to the point where they didn't care about themselves enough to respect their bodies or to stand up for themselves. They might even be controlled by pimps, thus adding to their already sad existence.

Only according to your sense of morality. Sure, not all pimps are nice guys, however I also know that not all of them are abusive, and not all prostitutes work for pimps. Many are actually independant workers.
Also, you mention how a pimp can be controlling. Have you ever considered how your god controls you with fear, saying "no you can't act on your natural impulses, thats a sin, and if you sin well, your ass is mine!!" Now THAT sounds like a sad existance/life story.
Quote:
Of course, there are prostitutes who enjoy their profession and enjoy making money off their clientele'. I pity them, because they don't realize that their sexual sins, if continued and unrepented for, will lead their damnation to Hell. It says in Corinthians "Do you not know that the wicked shall never inherit the Kingdom of Heaven?" and it goes into a long list of people who won't go into heaven, and sexual sinners who continue in their sin and do not repent are one of those.

Ok, it says that in a book. Did you know that in other books it says you will be met with almost a hundred virgins in heaven in which you can bang all day? Give me a break. Sex of any kind under eachothers consent is not "wrong" in any way, it's nature (even within other animals besides humans as well). Some just like to use this pleasure for income.



Ancalagon
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13 Jan 2009, 9:38 pm

AutisticMalcontent wrote:
There is a reason why prostitutes and guys who solicit them are looked upon with dissapointment or disgust.

"There is a reason" -- but you don't say what it is, for the non-religious anyway.

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If a couple are married, they care about each other intimately (shared interests and friendship), romantically, and are commited to one another. God views the couple as one when they are united in marriage, and thus what they do in their bed is not lust or engaging in sexual sin, because they have become united as one under God as I said.

What about arranged marriages? Marriages that are on the rocks? Sex therapists and relationship experts recommend sex as one method of reconnecting with an estranged spouse.

Quote:
I will admit one error, I did say "If you want to have sex with someone, you should deeply love and care about them, not use them as a means to release sexual lust". Sexual intercourse of any kind that is not under the confines of marriage is sexual immorality to God.

It was also a mistake because it's not true in general. Deep love and caring is not a prerequisite for marriage. (Not that it's a bad thing!) And releasing sexual lust is not a bad thing either.

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Women will only have sex with men if they trust them on an emotional level to the point where they are not going to fight back.

This is an accurate observation many times, but certainly not always. But even if it were always true, it is morally irrelevant.

Quote:
What the OP wants is to have sex with a girl and to negate all the relationship material that is nesscary for anything to become worthwhile romantically.

Yes, he wants sex without romance. What's wrong with sex without romance? This was my point with the married couple + quickie comment. They're not being romantic at all -- just humping.

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To want women just for sex and sex alone is dishonorable, women are human beings too, they're not toys to be used and discarded afterwards.

Wanting women for sex is not at all the same as degrading or dehumanizing someone, or abandoning them afterwards.

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Ancalagon wrote:
Religiously speaking, also as a Christian, may I remind you that Jesus hung out with tax collectors and prostitutes?


Yes, He did, however, tell me, did Jesus engage sexually with prostitutes or was thinking about soliciting prostitutes, like the OP was thinking about?

No, but that's not the point. You said that being around them was wrong.


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Ancalagon
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13 Jan 2009, 9:50 pm

ManErg wrote:
Having said that, in some cases, this *is* the way relationships work. Sex is the reward given by the female for the male behaving in a certain way. Althouth common enough, I believe this to be dysfunctional, though.

I agree. I'm not of the opinion that sex should be bought and sold in general, but at least prostitutes are honest about selling it.


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13 Jan 2009, 10:10 pm

Kilroy wrote:
MissConstrue wrote:
I try and follow the path of Kali Ma so most of Jesus/God's righteousness is irrevelant to me... /:


that indiana jones guy who takes out your heart


and f**k jesus he has no place in my life
i'll have sex without thinking he is watching me
(he is a creepy guy)


Yes sadly the media make her out to be this goddess who wants nothing more than to steal the hearts of men. What rubbish..... :(









:twisted:


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13 Jan 2009, 10:29 pm

AutisticMalcontent wrote:
Ancalagon wrote:
Religiously speaking, also as a Christian, may I remind you that Jesus hung out with tax collectors and prostitutes?

Yes, He did, however, tell me, did Jesus engage sexually with prostitutes or was thinking about soliciting prostitutes, like the OP was thinking about?


Technically, nobody is worthy of salvation on their own, except they attain it through Jesus Christ. If He spent His time on Earth eating with sinners and associating with the tax gatherers and prostitutes, what makes you say He wouldn't let them in as well? Plus, ignoring that, if said prostitutes were to repent later in life, wouldn't they receive the same reward? (I'm referring to the parable of the workers in the vineyard here...)



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13 Jan 2009, 10:31 pm

Bali mangthi Kali Ma...
Mukti degi Kali Ma...
Kali Ma...
KALI MAAAAA...
KALI MAAA SHAKTI DE!



Ancalagon
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13 Jan 2009, 10:31 pm

AutisticMalcontent wrote:
I'm sure you remember the story where a bunch of Jews were about to stone a women because she was an adulteress. Jesus told them "He who is without sin cast the first stone", and they left. Then He said to the woman "Stand up, your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more".

But the heart of the story takes place in between when he said "he who is without sin..." and "...go and sin no more".

After everyone left, he said, "Is there no one left to condemn you?"
She said, "No one."
Then he said, "Then neither do I condemn you."

My biggest problem with your position is the lack of compassion. You bothered to remind people that women are people too. But your disgust with prostitutes and their clients has blinded you to the fact that they are people too.


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13 Jan 2009, 10:44 pm

Cyberman wrote:
Bali mangthi Kali Ma...
Mukti degi Kali Ma...
Kali Ma...
KALI MAAAAA...
KALI MAAA SHAKTI DE!


:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:


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13 Jan 2009, 11:38 pm

Cyberman wrote:
Bali mangthi Kali Ma...
Mukti degi Kali Ma...
Kali Ma...
KALI MAAAAA...
KALI MAAA SHAKTI DE!


Be still, my heart!


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