Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

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Don't really see how someone who hides behind statistics has a brain of his own.

What about backing my opinions with statistics?

Okay, those are the women we should avoid. And where exactly do you find the ones who are NOT shallow?

Women always appear aloof and uninterested. Why are men supposed to try to appear so interested when women never show the same interest in return? Why the double standard? It kind of starts the relationship out on the wrong foot when there are expectations places on men that are never placed on women. All the woman is supposed to do is soak up all the attention and free meals. Doesn't leave men much incentive to show interest in the first place.

I think traditionally the whole mating game has been dishonest and unfair. Probably something to do with the way women were treated as property with no rights. She was a baby machine to be acquired and kept, not an equal friend and ally at all. Does a shepherd get annoyed if his sheep don't look after him? Naturally women also used all means at their disposal to get as even as they could, so the game really very nice at all. It's possible getting better now that women have equal status, but they certainly haven't pampered me very much, and I can't say I've noticed much reciprocation of the attention and thoughtful care I've given them, though perhaps I over-rate my skills in that area. There was a feminist who used to buy me meals, but she was pretty unique. Shop around.

The women who are my age don't even remember a time when they did not have equal status. Are they basing their behavior on some ancient social structure that no longer exists? I like the idea of shopping around but when shopping around seems like it will take 400 years to find someone nice and compatible who will make me feel as welcome in her life and I make her feel in mine, then it seems pretty pointless.

However, I will say that it is much easier outside the US. I'm the same guy when I leave the US and because I am in a different culture and don't speak the language as well, I am usually even a little more reserved about talking to the women when I travel. Often I don't talk to them at all. But I find it much easier to meet them and date them outside the US, often because they make the first move and I don't even have to. Just isn't that convenient to get an international flight in order to find someone to date.

Wow. there are a lot of stereotypes being thrown around! I guess that comes with linear thinking...

All women are not represented by one description. It sounds like a lot of you have been tricked into lusting the girl who would never appreciate you, no matter how you 'acted'. Maybe the woman/girl who would isn't the type to primp and spend a lot of time making herself commercially pretty, but beauty is not just what you see represented in the media you subscribe to. It's possible that you have to open up your definition of what is actual beauty. Is it the heartless b***h with the $300 hairstyle, makeup... or could it be the natural, sweet, smart girl that will take you for who you are and help you enjoy life.

Many comments here revert to what the girl/woman looks like, etc and then you accuse her of being shallow. How hypocritical can some of you be?

Yes! women/girls fall for the jerk---ONLY because he comes off as the 'nice guy'. a guy like that- once in the front door- has the opportunity to manipulate her even more until she is ever able to musters up enough force to escape his push and pull torture. The manipulative guy has an easier time because he is difficult to avoid, he will pursue and pursue, charm and charm, play the nice guy over and over until he has her in his clutches- the manipulative type rarely tire until they have their conquest ...when does the female have time to notice the meek and mild guy while this is happening? At the same time he's kicking sand in your face and making you bitter. You then wrongly blame it on the girl and become bitter...you are not the 'nice guy' anymore! Women/girls ONLY fall in true love with a true "nice guy".

that's all too true well for me anyway lol

obviously not because you are "the nice guy", if you are so shallow, what do you expect to attract?

I like that quote!

Nice guys have less luck? Probably. It really does depend on your definition of nice guy. One night at a friends party I was talking to a girl who wanted to break up with her boyfriend for been too much of 'A nice guy' and not enough of a bad boy. I later found out her definition of 'Nice Guy' meant that her boyfriend was very shy and she believed that her boyfriend wouldnt stand up for her in a confrontation with other men.

In general though been a 'Nice guy' means your sweet natured but are shy around women. My view is 'Nice guy' means an actual caring good guy (regardless of how shy or confident the guy is) . I think this nice guy deserves more than some people give him credit for but then again, how do you know if someones a nice guy? A lot of people just pretend to one.

speaking as an aspie girl, i do agree a lot of people just pretend to be a nice guy ( sorry for the genuine guys out there, I am speaking in context =) )

I had two boyfriends ( they chased after me okay?) and the last one was involved in a love triangle ( because he was the 'third' party as another guy liked me as well for a longer period of time and we were almost together) the first one was a badass one who is lustful, poor, rude and crude but he understands your condition and respects your decision ( let's name this guy M ) and the one i broke up with recently ( let's name this guy A ) is a bit flirtatious because he has many female friends but he has a big heart, quite sweet, readily spends money on you and not to mention, your friends approve him. You would have thought that A was a nicer guy than M given what I just said. Yet, I lasted longer with M who was in fact the nicer guy, till we broke up for reasons not needed in this discussion. The point I am making is that there is no one standard definition of a nice guy because usually the ones who pretend to be bad are actually the nice ones and vice visa

What planet are you from?!
Masculinity is pretty gross to me. I prefer my men in makeup. Seriously.

I just read this on another site, and I've never seen a more accurate breakdown of the phenomenon.

PM me if you want a link to his article on avoiding the FriendZone, to which this comment was a reply for clarification.

I think alot of guys confuse nice for "wuss who does what they are told all the time, and never has an opposing oppinion".

a Nice guy wont tell a girl she is being dumb when she is. So how can she respect his oppinion?
A nice guy will go along with whatever she wants to do. so how is she to see him as an individual?
a nice guy wont tell her no, so how is she to see him as a strong protector?
A nice guy wont make sexual remarks, so how can she see herself sleeping with him?

Like that post said about being nice to touch the boobies... A nice guy will be nice and by that expect them to know that he wants to touch their boobs. I've tried that route, it is 100% failure. If i say to a girl "Boobies!! ! Can i play!! !" sadly i'm batting about 70% on that one. It's not that nice guy's are nice, its just they lack the balls to say off the wall stuff like what they want, need and prefer. the level of confidence is generally what dictates the level of success. No cofidence generally means it sounds creepy, where ultimate confidence makes you sound like the Van Wilder.

Zero is the word I use for my love and dating. My autism completely throws me out of the equation. Not only do "nice guys not win ballgames", but people who cannot find a place within the social structures are out of luck. Women want to choose someone who is within the social structure. They need to know who this person is and how they fit in to the community. Well, autism has taken that away from me completely. I am just an oddball, drifting through life, with zero chance for a loving, caring relationship within my lifetime. I can't interact well with people. I try, but they always think I am "odd" and "different". I can't win.