Why is it that the nice guys finish last?

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You've broken off relationships because of white lies?

You've made countless threads on how you've never even been on a date. That is a lie, and its not a harmless white one either. Its a huge one, lying to the people here trying to help you.

I would take the word deception and replace it with perception. Since I am a musician, I often compare social performance to musical performance: everyone has a different perception of the music. Music is actually created in the brain in response to auditory stimulation, and doesn't exist in and of itself. Some people even lack the brain structure that allows them to perceive music in the first place. In addition to auditory stimulation, the visual aspect of how a musician presents is part of the illusion our brains create, making our impression of their art more complete. Some would describe the music as "angsty" while the next person would simply call it "funky". Music is totally subjective.

Art is all about creating pleasant illusions, and it is much like dating. When it comes to the social realm, there is no absolute truth. We all have a different take on what is happening and we all apply different value systems to people's actions. I may perceive someone to be rude, but they might just think they're being honest and even helpful. Dating is all about perception and even illusions, particularly the illusion that that person is somehow more "special" than the billions of other human beings on the planet. But we like that illusion, and that's why we humans date, because romantic attraction is thrilling. We like how our hearts pump a little faster around that person. Seeing someone exactly as they are isn't that exciting, but it still can be a form of love, the kind that comes from long-term familiarity with them. In other words, a friendship. But since most people - even asexual people - want to have a romantic relationship, that means we have to work hard, just like a performer on a stage, to stir pleasant emotions in the people we want to do the "dance of romance" with. Romance is based on mystery, and that's why not revealing everything about yourself all at once works to your advantage. If you do reveal all right away, the other person may take that information about you and exploit you. So, really, withholding some information is just a form of self-preservation, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to stay alive.

I would also like to add, judging from the tone of your posts (and, in fact, your posts remind me strongly of how I was feeling a little while ago), that you may have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I say this to help, not as a value judgment. Many Aspies are easily traumatized and really do experience a lifetime of rejection, and often it really isn't our fault, so the last thing you should do is blame yourself for not feeling happy. What helped me was a combination of finding the right community, finding the right medication, and getting the right kind of therapy. I see a psychologist who specializes in trauma. The method she uses is called Self Regulation Therapy (SRT). If you can find a psychologist in your area who does this kind of therapy, it probably could help you quite a lot, because SRT works on a much deeper level than cognitive-behavioural therapy. It is a more physiological approach and SRT works with the limbic system (the seat of our emotions, including the fear response). The reason why the physiological approach is so crucial is that trauma is stored in the body long after it has left our declarative (verbal) memory. Stress is a whole-body response, and chronic stress saps your energy, leading to depression, which I think is actually the body's way of conserving its resources in a time of crisis. Unfortunately, depression leads to distorted thinking, and any social rejection you experience gets magnified a hundred fold, which in turn can lead to suicidal thoughts and hopelessness.

But please be assured that you are just as valuable as any other person; you just have some big emotional hurdles to leap over right now. Most of the women I've liked have flat out rejected me too, not even giving me a chance to go on a single date with them. I was traumatized for so long by the long string of rejections, but I'm better at coping with it now because I have the right kind of help and I'm participating in a community I love doing something I love - singing. That helps a lot, because the choir can see my pure joy shining through when I sing, and that makes me more attractive. I also take great pride in dressing fashionably, and since so many people do judge based on appearances, I am giving myself a bit of a survival advantage through my wardrobe alone. I'm sure that if I just continue along this path, the right woman will notice me eventually. I still get a bit impatient with the waiting process, and I still have "why me?" moments, but I'm trying to focus on what is going right in my life. There is really nothing else I can do, because I've noticed that the more I push for a date, the more women back off, so I might as well try to enjoy something in my life in the meantime. Besides, the women who reject you probably don't appreciate you, so are they really worth all the energy you're putting into them?

I know I made a huge mistake. I should never ask a bunch of other social ret*ds like me advice about romance. All I do is get attacked here and no one respects me here. Everyone here thinks they have the answer and have God complexs.

No one here knows my pain and I am sick and tired of people here preaching to me and thinking they know what is right for me.

Leave me alone. If I want advice I will ask for it. I will say "I am asking for advice" otherwise when you see my posts, keep your hurtful, toxic thoughts to yourself. This is for everyone that thinks they know me and feel that its ok to mislead people.

Well then, sound like you need to take some cooking classes or buy a cookbook or two. After all, a womens place is in the kitchen. Attack me and now I am attacking back. I don't care anymore.

Here is an example of a so called white lie I got upset about. Some of you may remember the posts I made abput that girl that I felt used me. I made the mistake of taking her and picking her up from the airport. I was not interested in her romantically, but we used to hang out and do things together. She started not wanting to hang out unless she wanted something from me. I asked her if she was seeing someone, it did not matter to me but be honest with me. She said no she was not. Only after I took her to and from the airport she admited to me she is seeing someone at the time. I told her I don't want to hear her lies anymore and I never want to see her again because she does not respect me. i think I added something about her and her entire family line past and present burning in hell, too.

When I find out someone lies to me I am more upset then why they feel the reason it was to lie to me in the first place. With this "women" she was doing this type of stuff to me alot and I was not going to take it anymore.

i am sorry that i felt sorry for you yesterday. i said i did not know you. i imagined you in an incorrect way. i know more about you today and i now do not feel sorry for you.
you are seemingly a seething pit of bitterness and all you see is converted by your mind into something that is ugly.

ugliness is in the mind of the beholder, and you seem to hate all that is said to you and you must be centered securely in a world of hatred.

i think you are beyond the point from where you can rescue yourself.
if "flowers" smell like "s**t" to you, then you are not an attractive person to know.

you have gotten yourself into a frenzy where you self fulfill your pathetic prophesy no matter what is said to you. you have bitten all the minds of people that have tried to help you like a rabid animal.

an animal with rabies is doomed, and you are mentally rabid.
i would so much dislike to be in your world of thought and i am glad i am not.

you seem masochistic to me, and you thrive on contention and you will never see a clear calm day with your state of mind.
you surely are an interesting case to behold (from afar (like wild hyenas i see at the zoo that i am glad are behind bars that separate them from me)).

you reek with negativity and it is like an insect repellent that people use to stop getting bitten by mosquitoes. but in your case it is a human repellent in the same way.

you said that some respondents to this thread have "god" complices (complexes)
i talked about it because it was in reply to you saying god made you this way.

you really are someone who it is futile to try to help because you are happier in your rancid life than you would be anywhere else.
like if i get a bacteria from a sewer and try to wipe the s**t of it so it can be happier, i would be mistaken since that bacteria thrives on s**t.

you are quite sick in the mind and should seek help unless you are happy to be as you are.

now i may get banned. moderators please delete my post rather than banning me if i am too vitriolic.

It really isnt that vitriolic IMO, but Im not a mod, am I?

You seemed to have needed to release some tension you had built up towards KenM. The thing is, did you release it in a contructive way? I can definately say for certain that if it was me dishing out the tounge lashings, Id be banned on the spot.

When I said women belong in the kitchen, it could be a white lie and I am lieing. Other people in this thread say its ok to be dishonest and lie. I am just trying to adjust and fit in, I have as and don't know about all these social things.

Heh...I don't think that's what everyone meant by white lie KenM.

That's a start. But a white lie is one that makes people feel better & like you more, not one that irritates them. Try telling people that they're smart, witty, insightful, right, etc... You seem to have being the antagonist down pat; now try working in the other direction.

...

Ken, if you're not going to listen to all the advice provided by these people, then at least listen to me. I've been where you are before. Maybe not as long as you have, but I've been there. I know what it's like to feel as though nobody in the entire world can possibly love you, because for years, that was the undeniable, set-in-stone truth. I even went so far to call it "[Toad]'s First Law" (except using my real name) and started addressing it as if it were a proven law of physics that I couldn't hope to change, ever.

But, in the end, it turned out not to be the case. I may have seen it as reality itself, but still even that didn't stop me. Because the fact of the matter is, reality is subjective. It's influenced by the mind as the mind reconstructs everything that the senses take in. You expect complete 100% honesty, and when you're on the prowl for "white lies" as you currently are, your mind will start to see them where they don't actually exist.

The reason I seem to be against all the advice that people have given me here is because I have tryed all of it before. I have heard it and tryed it. The one thing I will not try is meds. All meds do is hide the real you and you go through the rest of your life on drugs and happy pills. That is not living if you have to take drugs to hide how you really feel.

Wow - so that is what you think of those of us here on WP who do use/require medication? Taking an aspirin is equally bad, as it is hiding how you really feel as well. So when you create these arbitrary rules, the only person negatively impacted by them... is you.


M.

/execute rant

Well meds are good for some people, like those with AS who will go on an AS rage and potentially hurt/maim/kill someone. So yeah, maybe you need some happy pills only temporarily to help push you in the right direction, then after a month or so you can be put off. To be honest, sometimes they do help, and you seem to be of the depressive sort too. And one who has to believe they are always right when we have proven you wrong already.

Yeah, I used to view s**t the same [] way as you until I had a good friend beat the [] out of me to prove a point that people will truly [] hate you for it. Sometimes you have to do something called ADAPT, or else you will forever be socially []. You dont need to view all NT stuff as ok, as long as you can learn to tolerate it better and accept NT behavior as something that helps them hold their own pathetic lives together as much as our nitpicking and AS-isms Help us hold our own pathetic lives together.

Yes, your constant negativity has hit a nerve for me. You want people to not resort to white lies? Ill give you an example regarding yourself if you really want. How bout an Overtly pessimistic, whiny pest. Feel free to substitute pest for another word, as Im purposely trying to keep it somewhat toned down. Your attitude can and will have an effect on other people. If you wonder why people might treat ya like []? Its begause your negativity is flowing onto them, and thus altering their own moods.

God, you make me feel like such an NT.

/rant end

I used to think that about meds. I've come to realize that's not true. My son, who is 12, has a mood disorder, or at least mood disorder symptoms, along with AS. When he was between the ages of about 4 and 6, he was really hurting, and we didn't know why. His condition got worse and worse, and finally we realized that we needed to try him on a mood stabilizer.

It was a godsend. It didn't change him into a different person, or take away the real him. It made him able to be his true self, as he had been before the mood disorder took over. He was finally able to get some enjoyment out of life, and not be plagued with fears every time he heard a noise, or fly into a rage and want to kill himself if you gave him his milk in the wrong glass.

If I had a rigid "no psychiatric medication for my kids" policy, he might not be with us anymore. The only time he seemed "drugged" was before he was on the medication, because his brain chemistry was out of whack. That was frightening. On medication, he's his normal (AS) self, able to pursue his interests and enjoy life. He still has strong feelings of all kinds, and is full of opinions and ideas, because that's his true self. He's also a lot less likely to "self-medicate" by trying alcohol and illegal drugs.

Obviously your situation is different, but my point is that you've got to get past the rigid thinking that medication = turning into a "druggy".
If your medication has unacceptable side effects, then you tell your doctor, so they can adjust the dosage or try something else.

It's like the insulin, or whatever you're supposed to take for diabetes. I don't know much about diabetes, but I do know that if your doctor says you need to take insulin, that's not something to ignore. That's not making you a druggy. It's taking care of yourself.

As I said before, my Mom is a recovering drug addict. Both rec drugs and meds. I have seen what being onmeds can do. It changes you totally. You get dependent on them. I will not live my life a slave to drugs, happy pills or whajtever else people are calling them.

While meds and drugs help a lot of people, I know they will make me into someone I don't want to be, a zombie dependent on them. That is no way to go through life.

Last edited by KenM on 26 Jan 2010, 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Then you will live your life a slave to unhappiness, depression, anxiety and more. If you cannot accept the help you need, then you will have to accept the life you lead.


M.