To the men: What us women face.

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You should read my post "Circle of Superficiality". I'm a male, and I have noted the hypocrisy of supposed "nice guys". It is my belief that "nice guys" are complaining about being alone because all the physically attractive girls, that all guys are chasing after like a dog chases after a bone, are being taken up by more assertive guys. Being "nice" is their way of justifying why all physically attractive women should run over and date them, as opposed to the guys these girls are currently dating.

The truth of the matter, in my opinion, is that nice guys are mourning the loss of physically attractive females that are being taken up, and wish that they could get them. They completely ignore the average to below average looking girls, because they find them unattractive and therefore unworthy of pursuit, because guys, whether they admit it or not or act upon it or not, view women sexually, and women's sexual appeal plays a very important role in men's perceived value of women romantically. Trying to be friends with a girl that a guy isn't slightly attracted to is very painful to deal with, no guy wants the girls that all the other guys ignore, that's the truth of the matter, as superficial as it is.

How do I know all this? I'm a supposed "nice guy", although I don't deserve the title, because romantically speaking, I'm a hypocrite and I am only interested in girls I find physically attractive, both as friends and as romantic possibilities, even though I'm not an Apollo or Adonis in physique. I understand why nice guys complain about being alone, and it is usually because they are going after an attractive gal that other guys are chasing after. Like I said, guys don't want girls that they find physically unattractive, they want attractive ones.

Six packs and being smarter than me are not on my list of requirements, and the former is not even on my list of preferred traits.

What is important is, I am attracted to him for whatever reason, and we have compatible dynamics. My ideal of perfect is quite different from society's.

I've been burned buy so many guys I stopped worrying about rejection and I usually initiate everything lol. I guess I think 'well how bad can it be? I get rejected. Oh wait, that happened last month and it wasn't so bad!'

Disagree to the max, AutisticMalcontent! I am not very attractive and most of my friends are guys, who are not attracted to me.

I couldn't disagree more with the bolded statements. As early as 2001, I've been going for girls that other guys don't want or that I'm not attracted to (provided that she has some semblance of attraction to me). After all, if I'm not attracted to her, a lot of other guys aren't, either (both jerks and nice guys). So, if jerks avoid a particular girl because they "can do better", and nice guys have the wishful thinking you're describing, she has fewer guys to choose from, so this raises my chance with her exponentially.

Look at the business world and think about it this way. Let's say you're selling T-shirts with graphic prints of molecular structures of elements, and it's at your school. Would you really try to sell them to the rich "jock and cheerleader" types, simply they have money? Or would you not bother, because you know they prefer Hollister and Aeropostale? Sure, a rare jock or cheerleader who secretly likes science (and goes to great lengths to hide it) may buy your shirt, but they're so few and far between, they're a negligible part of your client market. So who would you try to sell them to? How about people in the science club, straight-A students, or people in the drama club (they tend to have quirky tastes), basically anyone who has good odds of buying your shirts.

So if this business marketing analogy makes sense, why should it be any different in the dating world? It operates on the same principles, only you are selling your relationship. It's got loyalty, treating the girl like a princess, taking her to romantic places, great gifts, etc. Only unlike it's not what most good-looking girls want; they want attractive, arrogant jerks (equivalent of Hollister); you're a nice guy (equivalent of molecule graphic prints). So, it doesn't matter who you want to sell to; what matters is who will buy from you! Now, even with the correct client market, you won't sell successfully each time; but your odds of doing so will be much higher. Don't try to out-compete jerks who are selling great looks, hot cars, and sexy arrogance. You will not succeed, and only frustrate yourself in the process.

Don't get me wrong. I never manipulated any girl for my personal gain, regardless of my level of attraction to her. I always gave the girl one of the best relationships she can find, complete with romantic restaurants, gifts, flowers, showing of affection, etc. It's the girls who most guys don't want that seem to appreciate nice guys, and when I found that out, I used that fact to find some great relationships (although I was going for any relationship, "great" was a bonus). Even when the relationship ended, both parties walked away better than before.

Maybe I'm jaded from past experiences, but my experiences with guys has been awful. The first date I went on was with an old friend who kept calling me fat the entire time because I didn't look like Megan Fox while watching Transformers 2. "How dare you don't look like her you pig!" keeps resonating with me. (He was quite overweight, I was at a healthy weight).

The second date I went on was with a guy I met in 7th grade but got back in contact with via Facebook. He was very threatening and made me bargain things to keep in contact with him. For example for him to IM me more than once a week I would have to get him off somehow because I was/am chronically ill. (I was really depressed and isolated at the time. Looking back I should have never gave in to his bargaining tactics.) Unsurprisingly when I met up with him at a Friendly's he drugged my drink and almost raped me.

I just attract the lowlifes of society...

Ah, the circle thread. "A Super-Duper Awesome And Brilliant Post by Me", if memory serves.
Just calling in to note that I haven't seen any signs of the bolded part applying to the local area. Maybe Värnamo Kommun is an outlier, but I haven't seen much indication of this abroad or even in the media, either.
I have to exclude baseline attraction, obviously, since ye olde average guy rarely finds an object he "isn't slightly attracted to".

You would have to be compatible to his dynamics and he would have to be attracted to you for whatever reasons, yes?

What is this societies ideal perfection i seriously doubt its so different from yours.

=/ I just can't really buy that. I mean.... Read my thread entitled "Physical Attraction - wtf?" and perhaps also check the poll. Of course, plenty of people can lie, so I dunno about the poll for sure, but I mean, I don't care if you don't believe me, but that first post of that topic just really describes how my brain works. People I don't know almost completely just look like people I don't know, unless they're wearing or doing something that makes a big statement about their personalities, while people I do know tend to evoke very personally biased thoughts and feelings about their physical appearances. o.o;; I can't even really help it.

@Freak_Contagion Yes, but look at the breakdown of responders. It seemed like there were more women who rated themselves above 5 and more men who rated themselves below 5. Hardly a scientific sample , but it at least suggests that men might be a little more shallow.

Oh my, what awful people. Never allow yourself to be treated like that, I know love is blind but it really saddens me to see people go through that. They really are the scum of society, I wish for you to meet someone who shows you that not all men are monsters. I've been through some hell with men and I wish I could meet someone like that too.

Sounds more like desperation than love to me -- I've been there. When you're down, and undervalued (or undervaluing yourself), it seems like the creeps, users, and other crappy folk all come out of the woodwork and make a beeline for you. Make some positive life changes, make you the best you you can be, and most of all, be picky in a good way.

Some guys are total as*holes, no other word for jerks like that, clumsybee you should have poured a large icy drink over your first dates head, I sure hope you called the police on the second guy, he belongs in prison.

Guys (Aspie and NT) aren't the only ones who focus on that small minority of popular attractive NTs.

Women are frequently just as guilty, and often just as refusing to admit that they're the one who needs to change. I see it on dating sites, and in real life. They expect a prince to fall in their lap, when they can't be bothered to do anything besides sit on their ass.

With men and women, if you want more success, learn to cook, take better care of your body, your appearance, and try to be in a good mood as much as possible. (Even if you don't feel like it, smiling will still make you feel better.)

That's true on first meeting them, no-one wants to date someone moody. But I don't think you should be forced to be happy all the time when you aren't if you're in a serious relationship.

I do NOT agree with that. I get alone better with negative & moody people. I can relate & understand em better than people who are constantly happy.