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Is it ever okay to look at a women's breasts?

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hyperlexian
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31 Jul 2010, 6:13 pm

Craig28 wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
women may want to appear sexy (even just for her husband)


Then she should have changed her clothes when she was no where near her husband. This is one way for a marriage to break up, because a woman sends out flirty signals to other guys.


some husbands like it when their wives dress sexy when they go out, so this is a moot point. you can't see inside their marriage so you have no place making an assumption about how the husband feels when she dresses like that.

it is also not reasonable to expect a person to have two sets of clothes that they wear each day. i would not expect my husband to wear a suit for me at home, then change into less hot&sexy clothes when he leaves the house, just so that other women would not look at him!

as an aside, is that seriously all you have to say though? i completely addressed your argument in several aspects and you come back with a tiny little detail in it you don't like? it hardly negates the point...



Craig28
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31 Jul 2010, 6:18 pm

So, can I have a quick look when a married woman is dressed sexily in front of me? Or should I do what I did the last time it happened - show respect for boundaries by darting my eyes around the room?



mechanicalgirl39
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31 Jul 2010, 6:20 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Craig28 wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
women may want to appear sexy (even just for her husband)


Then she should have changed her clothes when she was no where near her husband. This is one way for a marriage to break up, because a woman sends out flirty signals to other guys.


some husbands like it when their wives dress sexy when they go out, so this is a moot point. you can't see inside their marriage so you have no place making an assumption about how the husband feels when she dresses like that.

it is also not reasonable to expect a person to have two sets of clothes that they wear each day. i would not expect my husband to wear a suit for me at home, then change into less hot&sexy clothes when he leaves the house, just so that other women would not look at him!

as an aside, is that seriously all you have to say though? i completely addressed your argument in several aspects and you come back with a tiny little detail in it you don't like? it hardly negates the point...


I agree.

Also why is ALL the responsibility put on women to bend over backwards to avoid being objectified or harassed?

Dudes, it's not that hard. Look for a few seconds if you want to. But do not stare at her breasts instead of her face when you talk, and DO NOT make her feel endangered.


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hale_bopp
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31 Jul 2010, 6:35 pm

lol woman haters. How on earth do these people expect to get a girlfriend.



Craig28
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31 Jul 2010, 6:37 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
lol woman haters. How on earth do these people expect to get a girlfriend.


I don't hate women, I would love a girlfriend, very much.



hale_bopp
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31 Jul 2010, 6:45 pm

Craig28 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
lol woman haters. How on earth do these people expect to get a girlfriend.


I don't hate women, I would love a girlfriend, very much.


Your attitude to women says otherwise. They can sense it and thats why they stay away.

Women like men who love and respect women. Take Hugh Heffner for example, yeah well even before he was rich that guy could get any women he wanted. He loves them and speaks to them with respect, thats why. Have you ever seen the way he talks to them?

Because loving and respecting women can't be faked.



Craig28
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31 Jul 2010, 6:54 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Your attitude to women says otherwise. They can sense it and thats why they stay away.


Women stay away because I approach them the wrong way. Thats what happens when someone has never had a girlfriend or been told by anyone the best way to approach them. Its called no experience. You could say that my attitude to women has slightly soured every time I get turned down. No ones at fault, woman can turn me down, and I'm not at fault because I have no idea what I am doing and anyone, Aspie or NT has done nothing to help me, even though I pleaded for help for many years and got nothing.

As for Hugh Hefner, thats a very bad example. He has the money to get women into bed, plus the women will sleep with him just to get their careers moving. Also, Hefners wife and daughter pose nude for Playboy and his wife lets him sleep with the other women.



hale_bopp
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31 Jul 2010, 6:56 pm

Craig28 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
Your attitude to women says otherwise. They can sense it and thats why they stay away.


Women stay away because I approach them the wrong way. Thats what happens when someone has never had a girlfriend or been told by anyone the best way to approach them. Its called no experience. You could say that my attitude to women has slightly soured every time I get turned down. No ones at fault, woman can turn me down, and I'm not at fault because I have no idea what I am doing and anyone, Aspie or NT has done nothing to help me, even though I pleaded for help for many years and got nothing.

As for Hugh Hefner, thats a very bad example. He has the money to get women into bed, plus the women will sleep with him just to get their careers moving. Also, Hefners wife and daughter pose nude for Playboy and his wife lets him sleep with the other women.


You're missing the point. Money etc aside, he speaks to women with a great amount of respect. Thats what they like. You can't hate women on here and then go into the real world and pretend to respect them, because you don't.



Craig28
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31 Jul 2010, 6:58 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Craig28 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
Your attitude to women says otherwise. They can sense it and thats why they stay away.


Women stay away because I approach them the wrong way. Thats what happens when someone has never had a girlfriend or been told by anyone the best way to approach them. Its called no experience. You could say that my attitude to women has slightly soured every time I get turned down. No ones at fault, woman can turn me down, and I'm not at fault because I have no idea what I am doing and anyone, Aspie or NT has done nothing to help me, even though I pleaded for help for many years and got nothing.

As for Hugh Hefner, thats a very bad example. He has the money to get women into bed, plus the women will sleep with him just to get their careers moving. Also, Hefners wife and daughter pose nude for Playboy and his wife lets him sleep with the other women.


You're missing the point. Money etc aside, he speaks to women with a great amount of respect. Thats what they like.


Hugh isn't an Aspie, he is older and he knows the social and emotional traits of an NT. He's bound to get it right.



hyperlexian
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31 Jul 2010, 7:13 pm

Craig28 wrote:
Women stay away because I approach them the wrong way. Thats what happens when someone has never had a girlfriend or been told by anyone the best way to approach them. Its called no experience. You could say that my attitude to women has slightly soured every time I get turned down. No ones at fault, woman can turn me down, and I'm not at fault because I have no idea what I am doing and anyone, Aspie or NT has done nothing to help me, even though I pleaded for help for many years and got nothing.

from what you said, it seems like maybe you are angry and/or bitter, and maybe that may is because of the rejection you have experienced. but taking it out on women won't get you anywhere. if you start to resent all women for what some women did in the past, you will always have problems with making a connection. honestly, you are coming across like a woman-hater, and that is not a recipe for success.



hale_bopp
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31 Jul 2010, 9:09 pm

Craig28 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
Craig28 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
Your attitude to women says otherwise. They can sense it and thats why they stay away.


Women stay away because I approach them the wrong way. Thats what happens when someone has never had a girlfriend or been told by anyone the best way to approach them. Its called no experience. You could say that my attitude to women has slightly soured every time I get turned down. No ones at fault, woman can turn me down, and I'm not at fault because I have no idea what I am doing and anyone, Aspie or NT has done nothing to help me, even though I pleaded for help for many years and got nothing.

As for Hugh Hefner, thats a very bad example. He has the money to get women into bed, plus the women will sleep with him just to get their careers moving. Also, Hefners wife and daughter pose nude for Playboy and his wife lets him sleep with the other women.


You're missing the point. Money etc aside, he speaks to women with a great amount of respect. Thats what they like.


Hugh isn't an Aspie, he is older and he knows the social and emotional traits of an NT. He's bound to get it right.


respecting and loving women has nothing to do with being aspie.



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31 Jul 2010, 10:25 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Craig28 wrote:
Women stay away because I approach them the wrong way. Thats what happens when someone has never had a girlfriend or been told by anyone the best way to approach them. Its called no experience. You could say that my attitude to women has slightly soured every time I get turned down. No ones at fault, woman can turn me down, and I'm not at fault because I have no idea what I am doing and anyone, Aspie or NT has done nothing to help me, even though I pleaded for help for many years and got nothing.

from what you said, it seems like maybe you are angry and/or bitter, and maybe that may is because of the rejection you have experienced. but taking it out on women won't get you anywhere. if you start to resent all women for what some women did in the past, you will always have problems with making a connection. honestly, you are coming across like a woman-hater, and that is not a recipe for success.


Craig28 is NOT a women hater. He has legitimate frustrations that he wants to vent. You can't just focus on one easy target as a scapegoat for all the woes of men.



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31 Jul 2010, 10:36 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Craig28 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
lol woman haters. How on earth do these people expect to get a girlfriend.


I don't hate women, I would love a girlfriend, very much.


Your attitude to women says otherwise. They can sense it and thats why they stay away.

Women like men who love and respect women. Take Hugh Heffner for example, yeah well even before he was rich that guy could get any women he wanted. He loves them and speaks to them with respect, thats why. Have you ever seen the way he talks to them?

Because loving and respecting women can't be faked.



Hugh Hefner loves and respects women? That is debatable, you don't know Hugh Hefner beyond what you have seen on TV. Some would argue that thinking of oneself as a connoisseur of women in the same way one is a connoisseur of wine could be demeaning. Some would even argue that a man who really loved women wouldn't be afraid to be around women of the same age and social status. The few episodes I have seen of his television show portrayed women who weren't exactly geniuses. A love of bimbos does not equal to a love of women. Likewise you don't know craig28 beyond a few angry posts.

Your unconscious logic is that if you have lots of women therefor you respect them. If you don't have lots of women then you don't. This might justify your attraction to powerful men. But how would you feel if you lived in a world where people thought like that? You don't need to put craig28 down simply because he is working through his feelings. Yes some of those feelings aren't mature but who can really say that they don't have some part of themselves they need to change.



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31 Jul 2010, 10:41 pm

Yeha I don't know the Heff, I more meant he speaks to women with love and respect really. I should have been more clear about that. But in general, he loves women.

Quote:
Craig28 is NOT a women hater. He has legitimate frustrations that he wants to vent.


Oh, so hating women on the internet is okay because its "venting". In my opinion all the internet does is allow people to show their true colours that they're too scared to show in real life.

For me, obviously, it would be an extreme distate to woman haters, for him, it's resenting women.



JohnisBlind
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31 Jul 2010, 10:46 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Yeha I don't know the Heff, I more meant he speaks to women with love and respect really. I should have been more clear about that. But in general, he loves women.

Quote:
Craig28 is NOT a women hater. He has legitimate frustrations that he wants to vent.


Oh, so hating women on the internet is okay because its "venting". In my opinion all the internet does is allow people to show their true colours that they're too scared to show in real life.

For me, obviously, it would be an extreme distate to woman haters, for him, it's resenting women.


As a social outcast Craig28 has probably put up with a lot more spitefulness from the opposite sex than you are willing to admit occurs in this society. When people are treated disrespectfully they tend to get upset. He is not a women hater. That is a very strong word that you are using. On what basis are you calling him a woman hater?



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31 Jul 2010, 11:10 pm

JohnisBlind wrote:
As a social outcast Craig28 has probably put up with a lot more spitefulness from the opposite sex than you are willing to admit occurs in this society. When people are treated disrespectfully they tend to get upset. He is not a women hater. That is a very strong word that you are using. On what basis are you calling him a woman hater?
Whatever you want to call it, there are a lot of people here that make monumental screwups in the relationship arena, which is pretty normal for ASD guys, but the problem that keeps them stuck is a failure to live and learn, recognize they have shortcomings in their relationship skills, and work on it. When they were little they might have had a meltdown when they were told they couldn't have cookies. Some of the behavior people here show when a girl rejects them or they aren't getting laid isn't a whole lot different than when they were little, only the aberrant behavior is less intense but much more drawn out.

In case anyone is wondering, I've had horrible luck in dating myself. You won't catch me coming on here and throwing a fit about how mean and shallow the girls were for rejecting me. As much as I want a relationship, I know that if I got into one now it would go down in flames in a hurry no matter how compatible we are, and rather than being bitter about it I am working on self-improvement. I suggest other guys in my situation do the same.


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Last edited by John_Browning on 31 Jul 2010, 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.