Do you feel sympathetic for somebody who can not have sex?

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It wasn't a comparison per se. It was a question about whether a comparison was applicable.. Geez.

he didn't mention asperger's. he mentioned people with a 'tough upbringing' who are 'lost in the social world'.

but anyways people with asperger's can learn to better navigate social situations and improve their social skills. i am doing a support group for that right now.

The whole concept of wanting symapthy is what destroys all sympathy for me. I have a far easier time feeling sympathy for the person who is stoic (about whatever the problem is) than for the person who literally says, "I think you should feel sorry for me". It's possible to be stoic and ask for help. Lots of people have done it. Yes even in this subforum. People say, "help me say the right thing to this girl" or "help me figure out how to meet somebody" or "help me make a more appealing dating profile". All requests that I try to think up some helpful post to. But when I hear, "do you feel sorry for me? Why not?" it just gives me the shivers.

You're correct, I did miss your post about that -- truly, that does mean you are on the high end of the female sex drive. You and I are about on par.

Masturbation removes the immediate need (and keeps men from doing stupid things they might regret), but isn't as satisfying. It's like a soy dog instead of a real pork or beef hot dog.

I would still say the male sex drive has a different component. I don't know if you know many gay men and lesbian women, but I do, and I can tell you that their sex lives are generally very different. Gay men have sex constantly -- in bathhouses, public restrooms, gym locker rooms, pretty much anywhere they can get another guy to cooperate. This isn't because they are gay (straight men would do the same if they could get women to go along), but because they are men. Men have a whole other thing going on with their sex drive. Lesbians, on the other hand, don't even have their own bathhouses -- no demand for it. There's a term called "lesbian bed death" that stereotypes the tendency for lesbian couples to settle down and stop having sex. It's just two different worlds for most men and women when it comes to the quantity and quality of sex drive. I would presume this is also why there are a lot less female rapists (they do exist) and sexual abusers.

I think maybe it's because some people are more emotional-relationally oriented and others are practical-instrumentally oriented. I think that you are the latter kind of person and I am the former kind of person. I find it deeply insulting though, that it gives you the shivers. You make it sound so creepy.

Anyways I am one step closer to getting a thousand posts. And then I'll get my own special title.

Okay, but ironically, what I find interesting is that it is the pleasure that I hear (overhear to be precise) women experiencing that makes sex seem like it is something that should be extremely desirable for anybody.

i get what you are saying, but men don't have a special hormone that women do not have. men have more of certain hormones, which in some cases leads to higher sex drive, but it is not universally the case. if you were to put male and female sex drive onto a continuum, there would likely be a great deal of overlap.

i think the main differences lies in the fact that men and women are conditioned to view their sexuality in different ways. that can lead to some women suppressing their sexuality and some men overvaluing it.

rape is not primarily sexual - it is an act of power with a sexual component. although the public has been slow to take this viewpoint, it is how the FBI currently views rape, according to the articles i read.

i have many lesbian friends, and they have sex quite fequently by the way. there is a lesbian-only bar in my city where they can meet and/or hook up, as they desire.

So what would be the best balance then in your opinion?

Yes, gay bars are everywhere. But gay bars are a social outlet - a bath house is a strictly sexual outlet. Men go to bath houses to have anonymous sex -- people in general go to bars to make friends, find lovers, and maybe find that special person.

I have a strong suspicion that lesbian (woman-only) sex is different in the emotions and length than gay male sex. I think the emotional component for lesbian sex is generally much stronger, maybe by entire factors, than gay male sex, which can be anonymous and devoid of emotion (not always, of course). Two women having sex conjures images of hours-long lovemaking, tons of emotion, love, affection. Gay men could have sex that is as meaningless as going to the bathroom. It's nothing personal -- both guys wanted to get off. Can it be more than that? For sure. But for many men, sex is primarily a way of getting our urges out, relieving that pressure in the groin area.

I don't think we're going to come to an agreement on this point. I do think that it is something that until you experience it, you just don't know. I've had GF's that were horny, ones that weren't, and ones that were disturbed (and also probably horny) that were using sex as a proxy for something else in their lives they were missing (affection, power, the need to be loved, etc.) I think men do this too (as you note, rape is about power), but I think that it is still qualitatively different.

best balance? i think a balance is to be aware of one's sexuality, and therefore make choices and take actions that can enhance one's life (without causing harm to others). being aware does not mean that a person should necessarily choose to have sex, but it should be a choice based on self-knowledge and internal honesty either way.

also in my opinion, the perfect balance means that a person would not allow sex to govern their emotions, relationships or actions. not to say that sex has nothing to do with those things, as sexuality should inform a person's choices to a degree, but it should not become so important that it overcomes a person's sense of perspective.

i don't think anyone is perfectly, absolutely balanced. but i think that trying to maintain a balance is good for a person's inner and outer life. we can't control every single event or circumstance that happens to us, but we can choose how we deal with and react to those things.

i see what you are saying with the point i bolded - i believe we cannot truly know what we can't personally experience. what naturally follows is that you cannot make a claim that men are internally any different from women... we must base any comparison on outward behaviours only as we can't see what is really happening on the inside, and that is a comparison of the resulting behaviour only, not the cause.

for instance i could state that men actually have a lower sex drive than women, but their seemingly higher interest is due to a lack of inhibition or a weaker mind. i don't believe it to be true at all, but we cannot know either way. we exist as one sex or the other. we can never really compare as we can't experience it for each other.

p.s. on the same token you can't make assumptions about what you think lesbian sex is like, any more than i can make assumptions about what gay sex is like...

[edited for spelling]

Last edited by hyperlexian on 15 Sep 2010, 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

@billsmithglendale

Why is sex so important to you?

So Hyperlexian when I am in a relationship I will almost certainly be less interested in having sex than my partner. If she ever asks desperate and begs me to have sex with her should I just laugh her off?

My knee-jerk reaction would be to say "hormones," but I think it is probably a lot more than that.

I've been pretty much fascinated/obsessed with sex since I learned about it at age 5 or so from my parents. I also found my father's pornography stash (just Playboys) early, so I think this contributed to the sense of mystery and wonder. It probably also made me more jaded, as I found myself drawn to harder-core material later in life, at an age where other guys I knew were still wowed by soft-core. Incidentally, now my tastes are distinctively niche and hard-core (but legal).

At some level, it gives me a sense of validation. Much like other people here on these forums, I went through a period of peer rejection and neglect, as well as some emotional neglect from my family. I don't think I'm the worst case here of that or anything even close -- I've seen a lot worse here, and my Aspie symptoms are relatively benign and minor. That being said, from about age 9 - 14, I barely thought I was a human being. I was lucky enough to have some peer support in one organization I belonged to, but other than that, I pretty much ate lunch by myself for at least 2 1/2 years in junior high. Couple that with the usual "ugly" period during puberty, I pretty much didn't think I ever had a chance of getting a GF. If my own same-sex peers didn't care for me, what chance did I have with the opposite sex?

So when things started shaping up for me at age 16, and when I finally had sex at age 17 with someone I found attractive and who actually liked me back, I was in heaven. I was willing to put up with all sorts of emotional abuse and relational aggression from my GF to keep that source of sex in my life - overall, I still felt better than I did without it.

This is still true today -- I tie a lot of my identity as a human being to ultimately being able to find women who want to have sex with me, even if I can't make good on it (because I am married). I have an unstable self-image and an ego that is easily upset -- i.e., it's not hard to ruffle my feathers (and God help whoever does this, because now I will aggressively persecute those people, rather than hide in my shell like I did earlier in life).

And, of course, it just feels good. I've lived out some of my fantasies, and never in my life did I feel better and more complete, like the missing piece of the puzzle finally fell into place. So this is why I'm so into the topic.

i am not sure what that has to do with what i said... ? how is laughing at someone you are married to a proper thing to do, ever?

if you choose to marry someone who has a vastly different sex drive than you, then yes - you will most likely have issues. how you arrange to work around that is between you and your partner. if you want to, you could do other sexual things with her, because not being able to engage in sexual intercourse does not mean that you can't do any sexual activity with someone. there are other ways to work with the disparity as well, should that arise. sexual compatibility is important in a marriage, so if the members are not sexually compatible, there will be issues. maybe marriage counselling would help?

not sure how any of this applies to the question at hand. having a different level of sex drive is quite different from not being able to have sex.

[edited for atrocious spelling]

Why is it almost certain that you would be less interested in sex? If you get into a relationship, part of building that relationship is figuring out sexual compatibility. If there is no compatibility, there will be no relationship. Perhaps you start out strong and then your interest drops suddenly and drastically while hers remains the same- thus causing a disparity where there used to be compatibility. If that happens, laughing at her will ensure she won't be your partner much longer. Working through it and finding something that works for both of you is a much better solution.