Cyber spying/stalking, am I obsessed and a creep

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Okay, I completely buy that you've always behaved the way you've described, and that you've never had anyone hound you for answers. Is there room in your perspective to incorporate the idea that you've been incredibly lucky along the way? Just because you believe it's unethical to withhold answers (and behave accordingly), doesn't mean that everyone else shares your beliefs. The answers you provide - as incredibly honest as they are - are not necessarily going to be acceptable to everyone else out there. It certainly doesn't mean that everyone you may date will come to the same conclusions that you do, and experience the same level of acceptance that you do. That your exes have all been so completely accepting of your decisions may just possibly be due in some part to luck.

I guess what I find so completely baffling about your perspective is that you believe so strongly that break-ups should be mutually satisfying and acceptable to both partners. Seriously - relationships don't promise mutual satisfaction to both partners...why should a break-up? Love is painful and messy and often heart-breaking. Why do you expect the end of love to be somehow neat and tidy, and mutually agreed to? I'm reminded of the following quote from the movie "Moonstruck": "Loretta, I love you. Not like they told you love is, and I didn't know this either, but love don't make things nice - it ruins everything. It breaks your heart. It makes things a mess. We aren't here to make things perfect. The snowflakes are perfect. The stars are perfect. Not us. Not us! We are here to ruin ourselves and to break our hearts and love the wrong people and die. The storybooks are BS." That about sums it up for me.

okay, but so what? just because you consider your own perspective to be the most ethical and mature way to handle it doesn't make it mandatory for other people to follow, and you really will never be able to force them. that's why it is necessary to move on and work on your own healing, because you cannot count on an ex to help you with that.

i really don't think it is the worst thing you can do to another person, short of physical/emotional abuse. i have been in that situation before too - i was obsessed with an ex for months, calling him every day, writing love poems, begging for a reason why he broke up with me. and nothing he said would satisfy me. finally one day he told me that he broke up with me because my boobs were too small.

hearing those words from him hurt a hell of a lot more than having him pussyfoot around and try to avoid me. and really, i will never know if it was the real reason, because no reason would ever truly satisfy me. the problem is not with the ex who cuts of contact with no explanation - the problem is with the person who cannot move on (myself included).

I don't believe break-ups should be mutually satisfying. They can't be....they're break-ups. BUT, they at least can be civilized and not leave a person twisting in the wind and grieving with no satisfaction for months on end like I've been. Yes, maybe I am lucky. I've also been described as brutally honest at times. But no one has ever had to wonder why I leave a relationship or friendship. I find it so painful to be left to wonder that I try to make sure no one ever feels that pain, even if it is painful to hear the truth. In the medium and long run, it is MUCH less painful to deal with the REASON in its truth and all that it means or doesn't mean than it is to deal with all the possible reasons that go through one's head when a reason isn't given, from "do I smell bad" to "did I say something offensive" to "am I really THAT ugly" to "what the HELL is wrong with me????"

I don't think the end of a relationship should be neat, tidy, or mutually agreed to. There will usually be one partner who doesn't want it to end more than the other, and that partner will likely be hurting more. BUT, like I said, that can be MINIMIZED by a civilized discussion of what went wrong. One can even learn from such an experience. Nothing positive can come of the "dump and run" situation.

~Kate

The reality is that something positive will result for the person initiating the break-up: the relationship will end. Sometimes that's all that can be accomplished.

See, I'd rather be told my boobs are too small or whatever. To me, one reason (or even 10) would be infinitely better than what must be thousands of horrible things I've thought of in the past 5 months as "the reason". Really, how hard is it to just give a freaking explanation to spare someone that kind of pain? To me, it's always been this painful to be left without explanation, and so I have always acted the way I consider honorable: to be honest and not withhold explanations. I know not everyone is alike and some people may not like my honesty, but really I can't imagine a to-the-point, honest answer hurting more than what I've been through on the two occasions in my 40something years when people have done this to me.

I've not been terribly aggressive about pursuing an explanation, but I will continue to gently do so until he tells me to stop, and then I will. I am not interested in hurting him, making him angry, or interfering with his life. I still care for him a lot and wish him the best. I also want to get past this as soon as I can, and an explanation would go a long way.

~Kate

Well, I suppose if they're selfish enough to only think of themselves, that's a positive. Otherwise, they're getting a positive at the HUGE expense of someone else.

~Kate

The answer is simply that she wants nothing to do with you. This is a case where you simply have to cut off all contact...otherwise you might be arrested. Stalking is a serious offense, and every email message you've sent constitutes harassment.

If you don't want things to take a turn for the worse, I'd avoid her in the future. And cut off any thoughts of her.

But you're doing the exact same thing. Your need for a "reason" is certainly more important than his need to move on and put the end of your relationship behind him. Every time you "gently" pursue an explanation, you reaffirm that your need is more important than his. He didn't agree to abide by your idea of a reasonable break-up when you started going out (I assume), and now you're trying to impose your ideals on him. How is that not thinking only of yourself?

How was she assuming her need was more important than his, or that she was only thinking of herself?

It is not unreasonable to wish for an explanation. If you don't get one then it can gnaw away for years, in my case 18 years. I never got one, but all the same never held it against her. She left it to another to tell me, and I just walked away. I just wish she had told me because I find it hard not knowing the answer to something. Now I never shall because she has taken the reason to the grave with her. Yes that is my problem, and neither of us was aware of my difficulties in understanding and reading others motivations at the time, but for literally two minutes explanation I could have been spared much speculation over the years.

Lastly, I find it somewhat ironic that your go by the name "HopeGrows"; everything you say is devoid of hope. Hope that things can be better, that they don't have to be this way and that we can hope that people don't behave this way to one another.

He's already communicated - over the past 5 months - that he's not going to give her a reason for the break-up. Perhaps he doesn't want to tell her, perhaps he can't. It doesn't really matter. What matters is that he's clearly indicated he's not comfortable with the idea of providing the information she wants. Her repeated requests for this information is a clear indication that she considers her "need to know" more important than his need not to discuss it further: she's putting her own needs ahead of his.

No, it's not unreasonable to "wish" for an explanation. It's one of the most reasonable, understandable desires there is. The situation becomes unreasonable when a person doggedly pursues that explanation over a period of months. It's not reasonable to repeatedly attempt to force someone to answer a question they clearly don't want to answer. It doesn't matter if answering the question would have been nice or kind or reasonable or ethical or moral or all of the above.

IMO, the lesson for the OP (and Kate), is to learn to accept that relationships aren't logical, reasonable, or controllable. There will always be risk and uncertainty and unanswered questions. The only solution is to learn to cope with that uncertainty, learn the lessons that can be learned, and let the rest go. If you can't let it go, they'll let you go - guaranteed.

As far as my name goes, I'm all about hope - just not delusion.

I don't think you'll find anyone disagrees that such relentless pursuit as you describe is unreasonable. Clearly, you can't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do.



Yes, but you aren't telling us anything new here. We all know relationships fail and some people aren't meant for one another.

There are two strands running through this thread. I think we all agree that stalking is unhealthy. I'm simply of the opinion that when one breaks off the relationship the decent thing to do would be to give the reason(s) as truthfully as possible. That is what I would do. That is my preference. I'm not talking about compelling or coercing anyone to do anything. You and others think differently, but there is no absolute right or wrong in this.

That's a bit nasty - what is she supposed to do, offer false hope just because of her screen name? Giving hope is not the same as telling people what they want to hear.

From what I can see she's just being realistic, if someone didn't get an explanation for 5 months, it's quite obvious they're not going to get one at all. In my experience, it's more productive to try to move on in such situations, for your own sake. People do a lot of cruel, unfair things to each other and often don't act in a decent, considerate manner. Unfortunately, demanding an explanation or reparation will only make them feel guilty and hostile.

I'm really sorry for the way the OP and Kate are suffering, hopefully next time they'll meet someone more worthy.

And I didn't agree to be dumped with no explanation, told it's not my fault and I didn't do anything wrong, then treated like I have the f*cking plague. We could go back and forth like this all day. Bottom line: There seems to be a prevailing attitude in society (which I challenge, I believe rightfully, and things never change if they're not challenged) that a person's "need" to abandon a relationship, turn tail and run because they're a little uncomfortable with their reasons for leaving is more important than another person's need for closure and understanding. I don't agree. I think they need to be taken to task and their immaturity and lack of intestinal fortitude examined rather than elevated to the level of respect given here. No, I'm not advocating stalking or doing illegal things. YES, I am advocating changing attitudes so that rational discussion is the norm and running away is viewed as the cowardly, destructive, hurtful act that it is. There is no reason in the world that I should be left to wonder what the hell is wrong with me and ponder thousands of alternative explanations, becoming seriously depressed in the process, just because someone else "doesn't wanna tell me". That's absurd. Yeah, tell me it's my problem all you want to, but there are those of us who DO react that way, and a little kindness isn't THAT much to ask to prevent THAT kind of suffering. Hell, I"m not asking for Mother Theresa here, just "I'm leaving because I don't like the way you say "to-MAY-to" instead of "to-MAH-to", okay?

I think it's BS that the "need" for non-communication is given this exalted status and the need for closure and understanding what went wrong is pushed aside like it's some kind of "problem" on the part of the one with that need. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's only a PROBLEM if the person is engaging in behavior that violates the law or is very disruptive (calling frequently, interrupting the person's daily life on a regular basis, turning up where the other person frequents regularly, not letting them get away from you, etc). It's not a problem to want, or even to need an explanation for this kind of behavior. It isn't right to place a message every month in the same "basket" with daily phone calls, showing up at the person's gym twice a week, sending creepy messages on their Facebook, and writing them love poems and sticking them under the door.

~kate

There isn't going to be a next time. Not for a long, long time anyway. I can't tolerate this again.

~Kate

I'm sorry to hear that Kate, I do hope you find some peace.

I don't think anybody is trying to say that your need for closure is less important than a person's choice to turn their back on you without an explanation. What I try to say - and I've been in your shoes - is that realistically speaking, there's a very slim chance that your ex will do the right thing (none IMO) and as long as you hope he will you'll still be very vulnerable and keep getting rejected by him

Well surely the name didn't just fall out of the sky. I would assume that it was chosen as being indicative of a character trait. I didn't mean to be nasty, nor was I implying that she should give hope to the OP as that is clearly a lost cause. I was referring to hope in the aspirational sense. Some have been dismissive of the very thought that someone could ever offer an explanation. I'm not surprised that it doesn't happen very often and I'm well aware of what a cruel and unfair world it is, but I hope for more.