Nice Guy™

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I'll give it one last shot, but that's it as I don't want to derail the thread with this. Have you ever had a friendship that was clearly one-sided before? You would do things for them that were not reciprocated? For example, you'd give them rides when they needed it, but they would seldom if ever return the favor. You'd be willing to compromise on what activities you were to do together and when, and they'd seldom budge in turn.

If you've ever recognized that you were in such a situation, you were already internalizing the amount of effort the both of you were putting into the friendship. You don't have to necessarily break it down into raw numbers, but surely you can comprehend the concept of equal or unequal amounts of effort being put in by either party.

In terms of shoulder offering stuff in general, no that's a part of friendship. That's what close friends do, provide support to one another and grow to trust each other. To suggest that one could swap sex for the sake of keeping a friendship is a bit wrong, and women with any self respect would not do it. Nobody should have to have sex with someone just so they can have a friend. The guy obviously doesn't see any value in the friendship they're getting in return if they're negotiating for "something extra" on top of that. How could they say they're interested in friendship when they're clearly not interested in friendship in the true sense of the word?

*Huff* this is the problem with most men I find, they have no concept of what a connection with a female could be beyond a romantic or sexual one. Friendship is of no value to them because they don't have the same emotional needs or awareness. Women can do platonic very well and men can't I've found (with the exception of one guy, and that's because he has black & white principles regarding friendships vs relationships).

Read what I've written above talking with Hyperlexian, you seem to be misunderstanding the scenario I was describing as well. Yes friends do things like letting them cry on each other's shoulders, but it's perfectly possible for there to be unequal amounts of time, money, and effort in a friendship. The basic premise of Situation B is that they're doing the usual things that friends do for each other in roughly equal amounts of the aforementioned things, but then the guy is putting in extra effort so that the friendship is now unequal as he is providing more to it, with the explicit purpose of getting sex instead of the usual "friendship" stuff.

Last edited by Shau on 12 Jan 2013, 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

we simply don't see eye to eye on this. it seems that you are talking about favours and i am talking about friendship. they are not the same thing from my point of view. from my perspective, friendships are not a series of transactions, or i would never bother with them. you can get a favour from any old person (and you will likely be asked to return the favour), but to me, a friend means more than that. my friends care to share stuff or hang out just because they want to, not because of what they can get from one another. this is where your model breaks down in my world.

and that's why i am not the person to answer your question - i just don't view friendships according to the model that you do, so there isn't much point in discussing the nitty gritty of how it could be manipulated for gain. so i'm out of that part of the discussion.

And why would any girl wanna take a man shopping? Shopping is the worst when there's an impatient man around tapping his foot and checking his watch.

And I have my own car so I'll drive myself to the shops too.

^^ Fair enough. Admittedly, I have a very unromantic view of reality that few are willing to accept, because people want to believe that there's more to human interaction than simple game theory and natural selection.

You're nitpicking at the wrong things here. The premise assumes that the male is offering things the woman cannot get on her own.

The way I see it is, a lot of the times, a guy whom a girl may see as a very close friend but just a close friend and nothing more, may actually be into the girl and want to share moments with her that are beyond what platonic friends do. He may even be a decent guy who cherishes the friendship and initially saw the girl as just a friend but, with time, has grown to be quite fond of the girl and just happens to want more. And so with this goal in mind, and due to being either clueless or overpowered with intense feelings for the girl, he may put more effort into being nice to her to the point that it may become a bit too extreme at times. All the while, the girl is oblivious to his motives and thinks that he's just being overly nice and caring for the sake of friendship ... because, after all, in her mind, they are very close friends. Or it could even be the case that she's started to realize he may be into her with her not giving it much consideration for whatever reason. Either way, because each side ultimately fails to see what the other party wants, the actual friendship may eventually fall and degenerate into some form of enmity/acquaintance between the two. And the guy may end up being angry that his love was never returned and the girl angry that she felt used.

Ok, so this is under the assumption that the woman is asking for these "favours" to be done. But what if it's the man that is being really insistent and is one who is always offering?

And what is it, a 10km round trip to the shops and back? In Aust that's about $1.49 of petrol. I...think a girl is worth a bit more than that.

It's assuming that the guy has been very upfront and honest about his intentions, and is simply offering the female extra effort in some fashion in exchange for things she will presumably want.

It's impossible for any singular woman to go shopping with a companion, to give a good example. You NEED someone else for that. A man could be offering to do that, on completely her terms. Or, he could offer things like letting her always pick the activities they do together, etc. Be creative, I'm sure you'd be able to think of many things.

No, you just sucked at describing the scenario.

So in other words this guys is doing all these extra things (unasked I might add) in order to ask things of the girl. Didn't you ever learn that it's rude to ask for return favours from people when they never asked for your favour to begin with?

A nice guy would do something for someone else without expecting anything in return (and turning away any "gift" that's not wanted).

Hidden motives a nice guy doesn't make, nor does counting how many sheep each person gives to the friendship.

No, no, no. I'm sorry lady but you are seriously not comprehending this at all. Please go back and re-read it all. The guy is making the offer to do all of these things in exchange for sex. That is fundamentally different from forcing favors onto someone and expecting something in return. He's making a proposition. If you don't get this, then there is nothing I can say to help you.

Last edited by Shau on 12 Jan 2013, 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

I have yet to see or hear of such a guy. Or even girl.

Every person has motives, and hardcore altruism is a myth.

Errr, I go shopping by myself all the time and I see plenty of women downtown doing the same thing.

I'm sorry, I'm finding this an offensive arrangement now and am exiting the thread. It better happen in a $700/night penthouse motel room, that's all I gotta say. At his expense.