Why is chivalry good for anyone?

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I was expressing my frustration with the word IMPLY not you, I never stated I was angry with you at all. If I did, I would have told you in words you were wrong, not IMPLIED something by being sarcastic. Sarcasm and implications have only caused me trouble. If I am ever angry at you I will say "You piss me off.". Now I have Asperger's, why does everyone think I say something I never said all the time?
I joined this discussion because I thought chivalry was good, regardless of what people who get infuriated about men doing nice things for ladies asking nothing in return for think.

Which has nothing to do with whether or not someone was taught to open a door or hold a chair for someone, grasshopper.

Olive Oil, I sure like your view on things, and I can relate. I like the Southern way of life very much; people down here are more polite, gracious--and apparently tolerant, judging by some of the other remarks.

As far as helping men, I hold doors for everybody. And if I see a man with a heavy load, such as a delivery driver bringing things into a store, I usually don't ask if he needs help, but I do hold doors open, and it is almost always appreciated.

Ann, regarding the older men and women in the store casually using terms of endearment and you not using such terms, my theory about that is that younger women, especially younger attractive women who aren't married, frequently don't want to appear to be too friendly to men they don't know, and don't wish to know. Grandmotherly types are much less likely to have problems attracting unwanted attention from men. I'm guessing you're attractive

I live in very rural Texas ranch country where population densities are at near frontier levels. Out here it is standard for the men in big pickup trucks to wave at one another when they drive by each other. I have never had a woman of any age wave at me, even if she's driving around in a big pickup.

There are exceptions. When I was in England years ago--in my teens and early twenties--it was standard for young, attractive women to address everybody as "love".

Some guys even assume the negative(think they're not "macho enough") even if being polite about it though. Some men actually LIKE to be chilvarous and don't want help even if offered politely. I also can't dare to use sweet words(like sweety, or hunny) lol. Men can turn into perverts easily around here.

Cakey, have you read any of the "Mars and Venus" books that were all the rage some years back? One of the things Gray points out in these books is a point of confusion between men and women. Men don't want help unless they ask for it. So, when women offer it when not solicited, men tend to get irritated. Women, on the other hand, tend to confuse men when they talk about their problems. When they do, men hear women asking for help, and tend to want to become problem solvers when frequently all the woman wants is a sympathetic ear. The woman gets irritated.

No, I haven't read those books, but I agree from expereince if I ever have aproblem the guys try to find ways while the girls help empathize. That is interesting.

Oh, my bad then. Misunderstanding.

Chivalry is good, and for the life of me I cannot understand why some people cannot separate that old dark ages mentality of "The woman belongs to me and is weak and helpless so I must protect and control her!" with some of the things that have been done since way back when that are now simply polite. Like giving a girl your arm when walking down the street was done long ago because the ground was uneven and such and it was thought that girls would fall easier from it than guys would. Oddly enough that sort of thing is done mainly inside now, in places like banquets and dance floors and leadouts where the floor is obviously even. But while I've taught my boys to do those things, just like every other mother around here, I've explained it as "Because that's just what you do, it's polite" not "because the girl is weak and needs your help because you are big and strong and she isn't" or some such.

I knew a guy who was once at a seminar for his work and at their break him and several people he had just met went outside to smoke. He had just lit his cigarette and the lady standing beside him had just got hers out and was looking for her lighter so he held his lighter over there. He said she got furious! I think he said he got a lecture or something, I can't remember it exactly right now.

As for opening doors for others, I was always taught that it goes like this; Men open doors for ladies regardless of age, younger women or men open doors for older people of their same sex, and anyone opens the door for anyone else whose hands are full. Also, a nonpregnant girl opens the door for a pregnant girl. The lady usually goes through the door first but sometimes the older person goes first. "Age before beauty" - this would be like if a 20 year old girl and an 80 year old man, and it's raining outside or something. She would step back and let him go first. However, he may very well step back further wanting her to go through first, so the polite thing for her to do is go first. It's just being polite.

Some girls are paranoid about manners. I've heard that letting a guy open the door for you, or change a tire for you, or offer you his seat, means that somehow submit to his idea of authority or masculinity or something like that. What it really means is that he's been taught manners. I've also heard some girls say that guys let them go first to look at their butts. There are butts everywhere to look at and a guy doesn't have to let a girl walk in the door ahead of him to see one, he can see one without going to any trouble.

Whats just as rude though is when a lady who knows manners is with a guy who does not and she will just stand there and wait expecting him to open the door, car door, hold the chair, offer her his seat, etc. A pause is polite, so if he is trying to do that you don't rush ahead of him, but just standing there glaring at him for not doing it is even ruder than him not doing it in the first place. Manners are meant to make someone feel comfortable and relaxed and welcome, they aren't a tool to beat someone with less knowledge of etiquette over the head with, but some people use them that way anyway.

Frances, I'm not sure what to think of courtesy up north. The first time I ever went to NYC was in the Navy back about 1982 or so. I hadn't been in Manhattan for an hour when I was in a crowd that was standing at the crosswalk waiting for the light to change. A woman standing a few feet from me was carrying a satchel, and some jerk came up and started rummaging through it, and the woman just froze. I saw it and hollered out something to the effect of, "Hey, what the **** do you think you're doing?" He was so surprised that he immediately ran off. The woman didn't say thank you; she only said in a snide voice that I "wasn't from around here", and walked off.

My ex, in the late nineties, was from Brooklyn. When I would go back with her, things were somewhat better, but I still found the people pretty rude and surly.

Like you said, there are jerks everywhere, but it seems to be a pattern up there.

"I live in a very rural part of Alabama, and when you pass another car on a two lane road that isn't busy, you usually always do the steering wheel wave, where you lift one hand from the wheel. Both sexes do this."

Come to think of it, it might be the same here. My situation is a little different as I've only lived here for eleven years. And since I pretty much keep to myself, few people have any idea who I am.

People seem to have an aversion to being confronted with the truth that they are in some way in need of help. Maybe because of an instinct not to show vulnerability. I don't know. But no matter what the intention there's still another side. Good intentions do not always equal good results.


Well, I've been called attractive; but, I've also been called ugly. My Mom used to say this poem described me:

"When she was good, she was very, very good
But when she was bad, she was horrid."

Ann, Cakey, and Frances, I think another factor in men not being as accepting of help is the fact that we tend to be less social than women--aspie women notwithstanding.

At work sometimes I will go out and eat, only occasionally with another person. It's not that often that I see women eating alone, particularly young women. If I see somebody eating alone, it's almost always a man. It's true in other situations as well, but I rarely go anywhere to observe people anymore.

I was reminded of this when I took my dogs out for a walk a few minutes ago. I went to count my cows and came up one short; it was the bull. He's usually off by himself unless one of the cows is in heat. What I'm getting at is that this kind of thing may be hard-wired.

Ann, as far as your remarks on your attractiveness, I can believe the good. I can believe the bad. But not the ugly

I feel very uncomfortable eating alone - usually I'll bring a book or something to distract me. Although I don't go to restaurants much - too much noise.

I can't eat with people around. I find seeing another person eat profoundly disgusting, especially if they are overweight.

Ann, actually I too feel uncomfortable eating out, generally speaking. Now I rarely eat out anymore (though I will today--Chinese, but just meat and vegetables) because I'm on an anti-inflammatory diet. About the only reason I eat out now is because I get so tired of my own cooking. I have to have a quiet place without a lot of bustle and people. I also eat at one, after the lunchtime rush has subsided, which helps a lot. I also used to grab fast food and bring it back to my office to eat. Having my own office is a life-saver.

Last edited by Thelibrarian on 06 Jun 2013, 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Chivalry is also often given to the elderly. Are we going to say that holding the door open for old people is ageist?