Why DO males take the responsibility for initiating?

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Their identity is based around getting as many women as possible to engage sexually with them. People tend to do what is necessary to keep their self-identity intact. Their 'success' rate is another matter. I mean, this is all self-reported by people whose identity is based around getting as many women as possible to sleep with them. They may not be the most reliable of narrators.

They're not a big thing in the UK, though my sister-in-law was the lucky target of one such PUA. By all accounts they weren't a very happy ten minutes for him.



Not only are you wrong, you're contradicting yourself all over the shop.

Here's something to consider: no human being is more natural in their behaviour than any other human being. Do you suppose there are 'unnatural' squid? 'Unnatural' squirrels? 'Unnatural' horses? Bees? Cats? Orangutans? No. No animal can step outside its nature - it is always within that nature. Where people like you have a very abstracted, monistic, simplistic idea of human nature/behaviour, you end up getting very confused and slipping into all sorts of dualisms and contradictions when trying to impose such a 'nature' on the human behaviour as actually lived and expressed because of all the non- and contra-instances of that 'nature'. It is folly to insist that people should - both prescriptively and descriptively - behave according to your theory when you are having to insist such in the first place because they aren't.

If you were right, it would be impossible to 'confuse'. If you were right, 'feminists, homosexuals and other groups' could not exist.

The fault is not in people's refusal to conform to your theory, it is in your theory.



Many men do want sex, and many women do want love. As many men want love, and many women want sex. And a whole bunch of other stuff, too.

Many women enjoy sex for the pleasure of it. They go out, and seek it for its own end. Many men also do this, but many others don't. They certainly like sex, but prefer it to be part of a committed relationship. And of course, some people don't have much interest in sex at all.

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Most men want both sex and a relationship. Most women ditto.
But male sexuality is more aggressive. Men not in relationships still want sex.

Not sure what your point it.

Most men want both sex and a relationship. Most women ditto.
But male sexuality is more aggressive. Men not in relationships still want sex.
Women occasionally are like that too. But a woman who wants no strings attached sex can find it as easily as an employer who wants to pay money for doing nothing can find an employee willing take his money for doing nothing-very easily.

Conversely - a man seeking no strings attached sex from a woman is like a worker seeking an employer willing to give him money for doing nothing. Not quite so easy a thing to find.

do you have any evidence to back this statement up, or is it just your own baseless supposition?

Men like you are called "Herbivore men" in Japan.
(Wikipedia)

Sōshoku danshi are often given as the primary cause of single women's woes.

If all men simultaneously decided to no longer initiate, then women would start initiating [and I am using "initiate" in I think the same sense as you meaning asking somebody on a date, asking somebody to be a boyfriend, asking somebody to marry them]. This does actually happen en masse on specific formalized events in the U.S. called Sadie Hawkins Dances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadie_Hawkins_Day

I didn't ask them why. But I went against their advice and messaged men I liked anyway. And all the men I met in person were the ones I sent the first messages to (except one).
None of them worked out but it was more efficient than just waiting for my type of men to message me.

do you have any evidence to back this statement up, or is it just your own baseless supposition?

There are no male only brothels for heterosexual women clients.

LOL!

Young ladies make tons of money as streetwalkers selling themselves to male clients.

Young men also make money as streetwalkers- selling themselves to male homosexual clients.

But young men do not make money as streetwalkers selling themselves to women driving by in cars. There are no male only brothels for heterosexual women clients. If there are where do I apply to work for one?


When primitive tribes fight wars- women are part of the spoils. You dont see women waging wars- slaughtering all of the women in the next tribe to steal the men.

i repeat, do you have any evidence to back your statements up, or are they all just baseless suppositions? to clarify: when i say evidence, i mean things like research studies on large and varied sample groups with controls whose findings have been repeated in other studies--you know, proper empirical evidence. or are you going to continue to site your own (faulty) observations and personal experience and call that objective evidence for your argument?

Women put in just as much effort if not more, just in different ways.

Grooming: hairstyles, perfumes, make up, beauty treatments, shaving, plucking, waxing, clothing, high heels, tanning or fake tan (some) etc...

Body: Body modification (Breast implants, face lifts, tummy tucks), diets, padded bras, workouts, yoga, etc...

Personality: acting more "sexy" to get a man to notice her which is not really how she may be in real life with friends and family, this is especially hard if you are not a typical girly girl and quite an introvert.

For example: When I was growing up I never could attract a guy because I had no idea how to act like a cute and flirty girl, I hated the cheerleader types in my school and those were the type of girls ALL the guys wanted. I was not interested in being seen as a sexual object or striving to look like a barbie doll so I did not achieve girlfriend status with anyone.

It is not as easy as men like to think it is, if you do not work your butt off to keep a man interested in you there is always the chance they will move on to something better (sexier) if the opportunity rears itself. Unless you find a truly genuine man who loves you regardless of your faults, the true you, the at home with messy hair baggy pajamas you, the caught the flu and got puke in your hair you and finding that guy is extremely hard. I have learned in life that men, more than women have a hard time to control their sexual attraction to other women, hence why they have a higher cheating spousal rate and why the porn industry is huge, and 99% of strip clubs are for men.

After all this is a mans world...

I think women initiate (by sending subtle signals) if they find the man marriage material or extraordinarily attractive physically. And it just does not happen as often as men finding women attractive enough for them to want to have sex.
So sex is the primary reason for men to initiate a relationship and for women it's usually not.
That's why men initiate more than women.

Question for the OP. Do you wait for women to initiate? If not, why don't you?

And men's sexual needs are a lot stronger (because it's a physical needs) than women's companionship needs.
Also, it's easier for men to find women who seem to be able to satisfy their (sexual) needs than for women to find someone who fits their companionship needs.

LOL!

Young ladies make tons of money as streetwalkers selling themselves to male clients.

Young men also make money as streetwalkers- selling themselves to male homosexual clients.

But young men do not make money as streetwalkers selling themselves to women driving by in cars. There are no male only brothels for heterosexual women clients. If there are where do I apply to work for one?

When primitive tribes fight wars- women are part of the spoils. You dont see women waging wars- slaughtering all of the women in the next tribe to steal the men.

Boys will be boys, people say, when they mean aggression, violence, noise, guns. Why does an age which believes in medical and scientific intervention on a heroic scale, which works for change - and delivers it - co-exist with a determinist philosophy about human nature and gender? The point about Frankenstein assembling the monster from body parts haunts contemporary consciousness, but the book’s main philosophical argument - that his viciousness is learned, not innate - that is somehow overlooked. The biological and genetic revolution already upon us can alter and save bodies, but stories which feature such bodies assume that their natures are static, determined, doomed. Rare is the character in a video game or comic strip who develops or learns to be different. Yet anthropology has shown that, in the territory of sexuality as well as other human areas, social expectation affects character.

Masculinity varies from group to group, place to place, and its varieties are inculcated, not naturally so. Societies who expect boys to be unflinching warriors subject them to rituals of traumatic severity in order to harden them. Among the Sambia in New Guinea, a tribe in which men are warriors and nothing else, and women are feared and despised, boys are removed into exclusive male control around the age of six, and then begin a series of violent initiations to turn them into men like their fathers. Proper, cultural masculinity does not come naturally, it seems, to a New Guinea highlander. Why should it to a child living in Kentish Town or Aberdeen?

Among another rather less remote people living today in the Balkans, in the mountains of Montenegro, the birth of a daughter inspires routine, ritual lamentation. Blood feuds are handed down from generation to generation, and if there is no son surviving in a family to carry on the feud, a daughter can be raised in his place and become a sworn virgin, a warrior in disguise to defend her family like a man. Her true sex will never again on pain of death be alluded to either in her presence or out of it. When the Serbian-Montenegrin forces in the current war in the Balkans cursed the women they raped, that they would bear children who would forever be their enemies and fight against their mother and her people, they were behaving according to a particular concept of inherited social beliefs. They were speaking out of a ferocious commitment to military values, paternal lineage and a cult of male heroism. I am not offering an excuse, a rationale, or an adequate explanation of men’s capacity to rape and kill. But I am rejecting the universalising argument about male nature that the rapes committed in former Yugoslavia are committed simply because men are
rapists. This argument goes, in the words of one prominent American rights lawyer, Catherine McKinnon, “men do in war what they do in peace, only more so” and also that “similar acts are common everywhere in peacetime and are widely understood as sex”. These sweeping assertions work against mobilising change; they present as sovereign truth beyond history, beyond society, the
idea that the swagger and the cudgel come naturally to men due to their testosterone, a hormone that, according to this view, is always in excess.