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Oh girls have it so much worse....

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rdos
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26 Jul 2015, 8:59 am

Spiderpig wrote:
I certainly wouldn't want a relationship with someone who tried to make me feel guilty for having a sex drive. And there's nothing shallow about valuing sex; if anything, what is shallow is to dismiss it as part of life not worth exploring or understanding, exactly as much as it is to dismiss any other.


I don't think dismissing sex could ever be shallow in our sexualized culture. People that come to the conclusion that sex is not something they want are much deeper and self-aware than sexual people that just floats around. I even think a fair amount of sexual people are only into sex because everybody else is, and thus haven't gained self-awareness at all. It's simply something you are expected to do and like.



rdos
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26 Jul 2015, 9:00 am

League_Girl wrote:
Isn't it still hard to prove martial rape?


Martial rape makes absolutely no sense.



The_Face_of_Boo
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26 Jul 2015, 9:03 am

angela, it is to rdos that you should address the "what???!"; he is even denying the existence of marital rape.

You were completely on wrong side in this.



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26 Jul 2015, 9:04 am

rdos wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Isn't it still hard to prove martial rape?


Martial rape makes absolutely no sense.



What??!



rdos
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26 Jul 2015, 9:14 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
rdos wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Isn't it still hard to prove martial rape?


Martial rape makes absolutely no sense.



What??!


It doesn't because a marriage is something you can leave, and all such laws could possibly achieve is to promote revenge by women and ammunition in custody-struggles. If you haven't negotiated the rules for how your sex-life is supposed to work, you should not have gotten married at all.

And, let's face it, many asexual women don't want sex from their spouses, yet they still allow it as a compromise. Would that also constitute rape in your opinion?

In my opinion, a marriage contract includes "I allow sex" (unless you have negotiated otherwise), and this is far more formal than any other sexual contact that is not formalized, and especially one-night-stands with a lot of compliments and possibly being talked into it (and later regretting the whole thing).



The_Face_of_Boo
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26 Jul 2015, 9:21 am

rdos wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
rdos wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Isn't it still hard to prove martial rape?


Martial rape makes absolutely no sense.



What??!


It doesn't because a marriage is something you can leave, and all such laws could possibly achieve is to promote revenge by women and ammunition in custody-struggles. If you haven't negotiated the rules for how your sex-life is supposed to work, you should not have gotten married at all.

And, let's face it, many asexual women don't want sex from their spouses, yet they still allow it as a compromise. Would that also constitute rape in your opinion?

In my opinion, a marriage contract includes "I allow sex" (unless you have negotiated otherwise), and this is far more formal than any other sexual contact that is not formalized, and especially one-night-stands with a lot of compliments and possibly being talked into it (and later regretting the whole thing).


There's a big difference between marital rape and a consent sex yet not being enjoyable for either party.

Yes, a wife can leave, but how can she predict that her husband is going to rape her in order to leave before that happens? you are not making sense.
Marital rapes happen, they exist, you not finding them make sense don't change that fact.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 26 Jul 2015, 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

XFilesGeek
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26 Jul 2015, 9:22 am

It's simple:

If your spouse has sex with you without your consent, it's rape. Period.

Marital contract =/= perpetual consent.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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26 Jul 2015, 9:28 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
It's simple:

If your spouse has sex with you without your consent, it's rape. Period.

Marital contract =/= perpetual consent.



And there's never a "perpetual consent" for sex - this was often used to justify marital rape because they viewed marriage as a perpetual consent for sex, consent is about the moment - only the moment when both want it just before the sex.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 26 Jul 2015, 9:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

rdos
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26 Jul 2015, 9:28 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
It's simple:

If your spouse has sex with you without your consent, it's rape. Period.

Marital contract =/= perpetual consent.


In theory, yes. In practice, no. That's because marital rape is almost impossible to prove, and it additionally serves as an attractive option for women that are about to get a divorce to put their spouse in a bad position regarding custody-issues. Thus, IMHO, such laws serve no purpose at all.

Also, in the cases where marital rape is possible to prove, there is almost always violence involved as well, and acting against violence is much better than going for the rape part. The problem of course is that violence in relationships are not taken seriously by authorities.



rdos
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26 Jul 2015, 9:33 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
And there's never a "perpetual consent" for sex - this was often used to justify marital rape because they viewed marriage as a perpetual consent for sex, consent about the moment - only when both want it just before the sex.


Not that simple, I'm afraid. If somebody is showering you with complements and is smooth-talking you into it, and then not letting you think it through, I still consider it as rape.



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26 Jul 2015, 9:33 am

rdos wrote:

In theory, yes. In practice, no. That's because marital rape is almost impossible to prove...


It's not impossible to prove, and it being hard to prove is not the same thing as it not existing.

Quote:
.....and it additionally serves as an attractive option for women that are about to get a divorce to put their spouse in a bad position regarding custody-issues. Thus, IMHO, such laws serve no purpose at all.


Laws against rape serve the purpose of making rape illegal.

Quote:
Also, in the cases where marital rape is possible to prove, there is almost always violence involved as well, and acting against violence is much better than going for the rape part. The problem of course is that violence in relationships are not taken seriously by authorities.


It makes sense to go for the rape and the violence (oh, and rape = violence).


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26 Jul 2015, 9:34 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
It's simple:

If your spouse has sex with you without your consent, it's rape. Period.

Marital contract =/= perpetual consent.



And there's never a "perpetual consent" for sex - this was often used to justify marital rape because they viewed marriage as a perpetual consent for sex, consent about the moment - only when both want it just before the sex.


This.


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rdos
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26 Jul 2015, 9:37 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Yes, a wife can leave, but how can she predict that her husband is going to rape her in order to leave before that happens? you are not making sense.


You failed to understand the logic. She isn't raped. It's just something she claims in order to get back at him, and win the custody battle.



rdos
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26 Jul 2015, 9:43 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
It's not impossible to prove, and it being hard to prove is not the same thing as it not existing.


I didn't say it didn't exist, only that laws against marital rape makes no sense. It serves no function other than giving women another tool to get back at spouses after a divorce.



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26 Jul 2015, 9:44 am

rdos wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Yes, a wife can leave, but how can she predict that her husband is going to rape her in order to leave before that happens? you are not making sense.


You failed to understand the logic. She isn't raped. It's just something she claims in order to get back at him, and win the custody battle.


I can see how this can be used as false claim but.... what about the scenario if the woman was REALLY raped by her husband?



rdos
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26 Jul 2015, 9:48 am

This also makes no sense:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
There's a big difference between marital rape and a consent sex yet not being enjoyable for either party.


The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
only the moment when both want it just before the sex.


That's because an asexual woman don't "want" sex, she agrees to it even if she doesn't want it. Thus, according to your definition, having sex with an asexual woman in a marriage is marital rape.