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Closet Genious
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13 Jan 2017, 5:39 pm

hurtloam wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
That's not feeling sorry for myself - it's a fact. I'm glad I can support myself, however, it is very stressful. What I am voicing is frustration because men don't think that women have any problems and that life is just a walk in the park. No it is not. Everyone has problems. I really do think it would help people to spend some quality time around some really sick people and then they just might start seeing some of the good things in their own lives.

Here's an example - I had a 28 year old male patient who had a genetic disorder that was untreatable. He weighed almost 300-400 lbs and had several wounds because he was unable to move around like he should. He was talking to me and crying about how he will never be able to date or get married or have kids because this genetic disorder was eventually going to kill him by damaging his heart. He was only 28 and was just fine several years before this disorder struck him. There is someone I truly felt sorry for because he had no chance to experience anything in life - he would never get out of that hospital bed. Someone in the world always has it worse than you think you do.


I really hate it when people pull out an example of "someone who has it worse than you" so that they can tell the other person that they are not allowed to feel bad. I'm sorry to hear about this guy. That truly is a rough life. But everyone has someone worse off than them. That doesn't make any of them feel any better. Occassionally when I'm down I think, well at least I don't live in Aleppo, and you know what. That cured my depression, oh wait, no it didn't because that's not how depression works.

A person dealing with their own stressful circumstances is allowed to express how those circumstances make them feel. It is not whining.

That goes for the OP who told nurseangela she was whining.

It's not a contest.


You can feel as bad as you want. I'm just saying that most people won't want to be around you for long.


Sigh. You're not listening to what I'm saying.

"Saying someone can't be sad because someone else may have it worse is like saying someone can't be happy because someone else may have it better."

It doesn't really help. It often makes the person feel worse. If they are empathetic they feel bad that other people feel worse and that makes them think more negatively of life. It's like when I feel sad that I'm on my own and people start telling me about folk they know who are in unhappy relationships. That just makes me feel worse because I feel like there is no happiness anywhere. We're sad alone, we're said when paired up. What's the point of feelings. They just bring pain.

What's more motivational is to encourage people to get out there and experience things. Although, I think that has back fired on me as well. I think a few guys think I'm telling them that they are useless because they have no hobbies, but I really just want them to find things that make them happy.

I think I try to do that because I am unhappy myself and I wish I had the motivation to do things that I love, but I'm too depressed and it's too cold and dark to go out for walks at the moment. My passion is photography. I at least get a bit of pleasure from that. I want the guys on here to find something that they love as much to help them feel like there is some good in life.

I think that you're right in a way. Getting involved with helping others is good, but not to make us feel like, "well at least I'm not that bad," but to give us personal connections. I do think real connections with people makes something inside of us feel good. It's good to feel helpful. That's why I suggested something simple in that past on other threads. Go and visit an elderly relative or neighbour. There was a thing on the radio today about how so many elderly people are lonely. All they need is a listening ear. All I have to do is sit and listen and have a cup of tea with them and they feel cared about. It's great. They often have really interesting stories too.


I totally agree with you, it just doesn't do anything, and it's a strawman arguement. It's telling people that their experience of life isn't justified, and neither are their feelings.



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13 Jan 2017, 5:40 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It's better to give good advice than to withhold it.

Even if the person isn't able to "receive" the advice, and benefit from it at that very moment when the advice is given, it's quite possible that, as time proceeds and growth occurs, that this same advice will be of benefit.

To withhold good advice out of fear does not benefit anybody.


Yeah, but sometimes it's not what you say, it's the way that you say it. I've been a bit harsh on occassion.



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13 Jan 2017, 5:45 pm

If your advice is "harsh," I feel that the person receiving it should dialogue with you about it, and state why it's
"harsh," rather than just dismiss the advice outright.

If I give advice which is "harsh," I would want to know why the person feels that it is "harsh." If I am informed as to why, then I would have learned something.

Just dismissing advice doesn't teach anybody anything. All it does is allow the "status quo" to remain. Nothing is accomplished.

It's great that you are reflecting upon the impact of your advice. This should be acknowledged. One only learns if one is informed of the hows and whys of whatever is learned.



selflessness
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13 Jan 2017, 5:46 pm

nurseangela wrote:
I know this probably makes you mad, but the sad fact is that most people have no interest in hearing about your problems because they have their own problems that are just as bad or worse. That's where a good shrink comes in or a really good close friend who cares about you (which are really hard to find).


I think that's not accurate. I don't have many friends, but I guarantee you that all of them would be prepared to listen if I wanted to talk about my problems (and I do now and then with the ones I talk to the most). That's what friends do. I know you said "people" and not "friends", but you wouldn't talk about private matters with complete strangers now would you? Yes we all have our problems, but that's just why people need to be there for each other.



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13 Jan 2017, 6:00 pm

hurtloam wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
That's not feeling sorry for myself - it's a fact. I'm glad I can support myself, however, it is very stressful. What I am voicing is frustration because men don't think that women have any problems and that life is just a walk in the park. No it is not. Everyone has problems. I really do think it would help people to spend some quality time around some really sick people and then they just might start seeing some of the good things in their own lives.

Here's an example - I had a 28 year old male patient who had a genetic disorder that was untreatable. He weighed almost 300-400 lbs and had several wounds because he was unable to move around like he should. He was talking to me and crying about how he will never be able to date or get married or have kids because this genetic disorder was eventually going to kill him by damaging his heart. He was only 28 and was just fine several years before this disorder struck him. There is someone I truly felt sorry for because he had no chance to experience anything in life - he would never get out of that hospital bed. Someone in the world always has it worse than you think you do.


I really hate it when people pull out an example of "someone who has it worse than you" so that they can tell the other person that they are not allowed to feel bad. I'm sorry to hear about this guy. That truly is a rough life. But everyone has someone worse off than them. That doesn't make any of them feel any better. Occassionally when I'm down I think, well at least I don't live in Aleppo, and you know what. That cured my depression, oh wait, no it didn't because that's not how depression works.

A person dealing with their own stressful circumstances is allowed to express how those circumstances make them feel. It is not whining.

That goes for the OP who told nurseangela she was whining.

It's not a contest.


You can feel as bad as you want. I'm just saying that most people won't want to be around you for long.


Sigh. You're not listening to what I'm saying.

"Saying someone can't be sad because someone else may have it worse is like saying someone can't be happy because someone else may have it better."

It doesn't really help. It often makes the person feel worse. If they are empathetic they feel bad that other people feel worse and that makes them think more negatively of life. It's like when I feel sad that I'm on my own and people start telling me about folk they know who are in unhappy relationships. That just makes me feel worse because I feel like there is no happiness anywhere. We're sad alone, we're said when paired up. What's the point of feelings. They just bring pain.

What's more motivational is to encourage people to get out there and experience things. Although, I think that has back fired on me as well. I think a few guys think I'm telling them that they are useless because they have no hobbies, but I really just want them to find things that make them happy.

I think I try to do that because I am unhappy myself and I wish I had the motivation to do things that I love, but I'm too depressed and it's too cold and dark to go out for walks at the moment. My passion is photography. I at least get a bit of pleasure from that. I want the guys on here to find something that they love as much to help them feel like there is some good in life.

I think that you're right in a way. Getting involved with helping others is good, but not to make us feel like, "well at least I'm not that bad," but to give us personal connections. I do think real connections with people makes something inside of us feel good. It's good to feel helpful. That's why I suggested something simple in that past on other threads. Go and visit an elderly relative or neighbour. There was a thing on the radio today about how so many elderly people are lonely. All they need is a listening ear. All I have to do is sit and listen and have a cup of tea with them and they feel cared about. It's great. They often have really interesting stories too.


I have no problem listening to someone tell me their problems - for awhile. What is upsetting is listening to them time and time again talk about the same problems and they don't even try to find any solutions. It's very draining. That's where support groups could help because all of those people have the same problem and come together to get "support" from others who are going through the same thing and maybe then they can find a way out together.


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Last edited by nurseangela on 13 Jan 2017, 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nurseangela
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13 Jan 2017, 6:01 pm

selflessness wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
I know this probably makes you mad, but the sad fact is that most people have no interest in hearing about your problems because they have their own problems that are just as bad or worse. That's where a good shrink comes in or a really good close friend who cares about you (which are really hard to find).


I think that's not accurate. I don't have many friends, but I guarantee you that all of them would be prepared to listen if I wanted to talk about my problems (and I do now and then with the ones I talk to the most). That's what friends do. I know you said "people" and not "friends", but you wouldn't talk about private matters with complete strangers now would you? Yes we all have our problems, but that's just why people need to be there for each other.


Didn't I say "a really good close friend"?


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


nurseangela
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13 Jan 2017, 6:04 pm

Would anyone like to hear about my problems? I have a zillion of them, but I want someone who is really concerned and won't just tune me out because it's going to take a couple of hours - at least. Any takers?


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


nurseangela
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13 Jan 2017, 6:06 pm

Would someone also explain what a "strawman" is? I hear that thrown around a lot in PPR and I don't really understand the term.


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


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13 Jan 2017, 6:11 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Would someone also explain what a "strawman" is? I hear that thrown around a lot in PPR and I don't really understand the term.


Definition: An intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

Example: "Her familiar procedure of creating a strawman by exaggerating their approach".


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13 Jan 2017, 6:11 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Would someone also explain what a "strawman" is? I hear that thrown around a lot in PPR and I don't really understand the term.


1 an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
2 a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.


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13 Jan 2017, 6:12 pm

It's not that people don't want to listen, but if you harp on about the same problems over and over again you make yourself a burden on other people.
Constantly bitter and negative people are the most draining people to be around.
I try not to be like that.
I try to stay positive and make light of my situation because I need the people who support me to want to be around me.


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13 Jan 2017, 6:14 pm

blackicmenace wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Would someone also explain what a "strawman" is? I hear that thrown around a lot in PPR and I don't really understand the term.


1 an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
2 a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.


How does that relate to the things that I have posted in this thread? To me, a strawman argument is sounding like a strawman.

You know, this is another thing that pisses me off is when someone comes to me for help and when I try to give them some they totally disregard it and just keep right on "bitching". My own Ma does this and we have gotten into several arguments because of it. I got to the point of saying if she doesn't want my help then don't bother me about the problem.

I would expect the men here to understand what I'm saying because most men do not want to listen to other people's problems without trying to fix them. Am I not right?


_________________
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I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


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13 Jan 2017, 6:20 pm

These days I often can't deal with hearing others' problems as I can't cope with my own, but mainly because like when I'm feeling ill, I don't want to think about it or it makes it worse, especially with nausea and headaches. With empathy, I don't want to feel the other persons' pain. It is too much.

You notice the difference between those who want help and those who don't, pretty soon. You just give up because they don't appreciate anything useful, they just regurgitate the same things over and over again, it's more comfortable to them than doing anything new, like sitting in the same old comfy chair. The worst part is they don't actually see that you're trying to help them.


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13 Jan 2017, 6:21 pm

smudge wrote:
These days I often can't deal with hearing others' problems as I can't cope with my own, but mainly because like when I'm feeling ill, I don't want to think about it or it makes it worse, especially with nausea and headaches. With empathy, I don't want to feel the other persons' pain. It is too much.

You notice the difference between those who want help and those who don't, pretty soon. You just give up because they don't appreciate anything useful, they just regurgitate the same things over and over again, it's more comfortable to them than doing anything new, like sitting in the same old comfy chair. The worst part is they don't actually see that you're trying to help them.


Exactly.


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


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13 Jan 2017, 6:26 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Would anyone like to hear about my problems? I have a zillion of them, but I want someone who is really concerned and won't just tune me out because it's going to take a couple of hours - at least. Any takers?


If you need someone to talk to, you can PM me, but here is the disclaimer. I may not have advice that can help or rather advise you will accept, you may not like my perspective of your issue I.E. compatibility, but if I can help, I will.


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13 Jan 2017, 6:31 pm

nurseangela wrote:
blackicmenace wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Would someone also explain what a "strawman" is? I hear that thrown around a lot in PPR and I don't really understand the term.


1 an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
2 a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.


How does that relate to the things that I have posted in this thread? To me, a strawman argument is sounding like a strawman.

You know, this is another thing that pisses me off is when someone comes to me for help and when I try to give them some they totally disregard it and just keep right on "bitching". My own Ma does this and we have gotten into several arguments because of it. I got to the point of saying if she doesn't want my help then don't bother me about the problem.

I would expect the men here to understand what I'm saying because most men do not want to listen to other people's problems without trying to fix them. Am I not right?


It is an abstract idea, it would help to know the exact conversation you are referring to.


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Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.” ― Bertrand Russell