how do girls signal interest?

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Speaking from personal experience, having a few women in your life as friends might help you overcome the paranoia driven misogyny you regularly can't help but express. I'd be a misogynist too if I believed women were all conspiring to hurt me, but thankfully friendly interaction with them has helped tame my fears in that regard in comparison to myself as a young teenager, or in comparison to what you've expressed over the past few years.

I don't believe you're a bad person, I believe you're reacting 'reasonably' to an unreasonable belief. Describing the views you express as misogynistic is accurate (although perhaps 'gynophobic' might be an even more accurate term), but that doesn't mean that you will forever express views of that nature. I don't intend on shaming you over your views, I genuinely wish I could offer help and advice to improve the outcomes of your interactions with women so that you don't have to feel this way.

It's deeply frustrating to encounter so many young men who struggle in this regard and fail and adopt these kinds of attitudes. I wish I knew what exactly went right for me in this regard, since I mostly remember of lot of hurt and rejection and failure and gradually things started to improve.

I don't think women are conspiring against me
They just see me as sub human worthless trash. I'm not a real man to them.

I have online females friends and females I talk to at work but they all still see me as worthless and would never date me. Women want what they deem a real man. I don't meet and never will meet their requirements so they ignore me or tell me I'm worthless.

Don't see how having more female friends would help women will still see me as worthless for dating and love.
I don't have anything to do with most women either. Most women aren't into gaming. The ones at work are just work friends we donky talk at work about work stuff or somewhat about life outside of work. Women my age are into partying and drinking a lot I'm not into either.

I'm not a misogynist as I dont hate women they just don't care for me as my income is low and I'm fat.

They don't all, perhaps some do, but there's 3 500 000 000 of them out there. Between all the guys on this forum we haven't even met 1% of them.



Some girls our age and younger are into drinking and partying, but many aren't. Someone who's big into drinking and partying wouldn't be a good partner for either of us, at least if you're half the shut-in I am. There's also quite a number of girls who are into gaming, from 'uhh, I got (insert app here) on my phone' to 'I camped out for three days in front of EB waiting for Elder Scrolls 6.5 Extra Special Electrum Edition'




You do express misogynistic attitudes, but people's attitudes can change over time. When you make a bunch of negative generalizations about women you can't honestly insist you're not expressing those types of attitudes. That said, me rubbing your nose in it won't help you. Breaking the cycle will, some of what I've said might help with doing that, but ultimately a lot of it ends up needing to be done internally since most of the advice I can offer is only what helped me. You're not the only guy I know who's dealing with this, and so far I've seen some appear like they've broken the cycle and others who appear to have been consumed by it and no one deserves to be that guy**.

**Former co-worker, pushing 70, never married, never dated significantly and not since his 20s. Decent guy in many ways but utterly consumed by bitterness towards everyone he blames for his defeats in this regard. He doesn't deserve to be that guy either, even if at this point he almost can't help it.

No it's not. Where did you get this strange notion from?

Yes, WE do. I've had plenty of single female friends over the years. Sly, I've read most of your comments here in this discussion, and I have to say that you have some pretty strange beliefs.

I don't normally give advice on matters that involve romance, but I have to say that the biggest problem I see here is that your attitude about yourself is just far too negative. "They just see me as subhuman worthless trash..." - Seriously? Are you absolutely sure about this, and that it's not just the way you think they see you? ALL of them do this?

If they actually tell you you're worthless, then they are just not worth it themselves, and you should keep looking for someone who will not only treat you with at least a minimum amount of respect, but who will not care about the size of your wallet or how "fat" you are. Most women are not so brazenly rude and insensitive enough to actually say to your face that you are "worthless", so those pathetic losers should be easy enough to avoid.

Online "friends" are no friends at all. In spite of what many these days apparently believe, you actually have to get up from your seat in front of the computer and actually go outside to find friends. People you have never met in real life are not even acquaintances.

Married women especially married older women are nice to me. But then they're not an option to date, while single women are mean, say I'm not a real man cause my income. Most women yes, all no, there's always outliers in anything. I imagine you don't go on dating sites? Consider yourself lucky to be hidden from the cruel world that is single women. Most women want a guy with a good income. There's a bunch on wp even. They can use whatever logic they want to make them feel bette but the end of the day they picking and rejecting guys based off their income which is superficial as much as guys picking and rejecting women for their boob and waist size. Men are humans too not just a job with income. Millions of people had happy relationships and lives with poor guys though out history why is it now every woman has to be middle class couple? Really isn't enough jobs for all men non less well paying jobs especially with women taking half the jobs available ( good then equality, but simple surply and demand, if there 10 jobs , 10'women and 10 men, only 10 people can have a job, if 5 women work then only 5 men can work, if all 10 women demand working men that leaves 5 men who are considered undatable. Nonapply that to the millions and millions of women demanding a guy with middle class job, there aren't millions and millions of middle class job men to fill their needs. Economy crashesd, middle class factory jobs all went to china, India, etc. this is why there's so many single women complaining about lack of men.

They're right though, in a society where men's worth is based off their income and what they do, I'm worthless. I make $800 a month. Where as "real men" make 3,500+ a month. So I make in a month what most women's idea man makes in a week. I messaged a lady who said she just wants s guy to pay his share. But say we live together her wanted utilities and bills , my half would likely cost every cent I make a month. Mean a lot of middle class people's cable bill alone is $800. So I'd be expected to pay $400 of that. I doubt she'll date a guy who makes $800 that's probably less then her rent each month cost.so unless she made $800 a month I'd never be able to contribute half of her utilities and bills. I dont know how to reply to her.

Lol. See you base friendships off of pnysicalness, I'm basing friendships off emotional and mental connections. I'm far closer to these online friends then my sole kinda friend who've known for half my life. They are friends, we talk all the time, spend hours together, send gifts , help each other when times are tough etc. so you'd tell me sitting in the room with them and doing all the same stuff would somehow make them more real? Not a lot of difference in playing a game in the couch next to your friend or talking over a chat while they're at home.

Good for you you're in the minority, I've never talked to or met any guys who have single female friends. I can't have single female friends, I'll 1000000000% fall in love with them 100% guaranteed, then I'll resent them for not loving me back. So if you can be single and be friends with a super hot chick who makes you smile, laugh, and is super attractive to you without loving her then good for you, i can't. Also most men will admit they'd f**k their female friend in a heart beat if she said yes.

True friendships are void of any sexual or romantic feelings. I have zero sexual or romantic feeling for my guy friend. Those feelings only make for awkward friendships with one friend resenting the other.

The introduction of sexual talk always ends any communication with women I'm messaging. FYI I don't bring it up, they do, despite my objections. Then there's all the posts about women. It liking sexual advances from men. Most women don't like the idea of men being sexual interested in them, they call the, perverts, there's a minority who do they post on Reddit.they enjoy knowing men mastubate to them and finds them sexy, most women don't though. They may like the guy they like doing that(husband,bf etc).

As I'm ugly and worthless, besides the women who post on Reddit, most women would be disgusted s lowly man like me finds the, attractive or desires sex with them.

Personally I dislike my sex drive.it ruins everything. Women use it against me. I'm slightly envious of asexual aspies. They don't have a sex drive to ruin their romantic desires. Also perhaps without a sex drive I'd have no interest in women like those few aspies who prefer to be alone with their hobbies. Desiring women hasn't brought me any happiness due to the fact I'm unlovable and super unattractive.
I wonder if low functioning austisics are happier, they lack the ability to understand how screwed we are. Their life is simpler. Suppose this would be better I. Heaven but oh welll
I'm depressed now, my life is bleak. Only thing I have to look forward to is buying another gun I shouldn't, that I'll never be able to shoot cause I can't afford s car to go shooting and have no friends to take me.

Aren't their 3billion people in china alone? Though the total world population doesn't matter, while some lady in china might not care about my income, I bet it's a lot compared to her average income in the area, she's in china, we'll never meet. I've been contacted by aspie women in Europe,but I can't afford to travel to them nore them to me, so they find bfs in Europe.

All the women at work are even the ones older then me. Seems they get drunk every weekend. I've never seen the appeal of alcohol or drugs. Much like coffee and cigarettes it's a waste of money I'd rather spend on objects that will be around much longer and increase and worth. What's so fun about getting so high or drunk, you don't remember what you did and vomite? Very few women into gaming, most play phone games. We have one girl in our gaming clan.loke 70guys from age 17-70. She's a 18 old high school senior. I don't much care for how the older guys flirt sexually with her , it makes me uncomfortable. Even if it's a joke.

I talk about reality, women especially the few on here who don't follow the majority of women take offense to hearing reality but it is what it is. You can go on dating sites and see profile after profile after ad after ad of women demanding s guy have a good job. I don't see how it's misogynistic to point out that. It's not like they hiding it.thuenout it on their profile,thyentalk a out it on Facebook and at work in the break room. Most women want a guy with a good income that can provide for them or contribute to their middle class dream. That's what society says to do that's what society says is important, it drives sales. Society is largely controlled by corporations who want to sell their goods. In Materialistic people make poor consumers. Mean look at the jewelry industry alone. 6 months pay for a engagement ring seems like a solid investment, sure there wasn't anything better that money could been spent on. And how does one save upm6 months pay while paying for everything else lol. Anyways I'm not materialistic. I don't need vacations, fancy things, fancy cars, houses etc. give me an apartment tv, couch and a gf and I'd be happy. Though I can go to the beach and stay in a cabin if I had transportation. That's about all the vacation I needl but a lot of women want to go to Europe, or Hawaii or Asia few times a year. Or spend half the year backpacking across Europe. That's all very very expensive, it's no wonder they want s guy with a good job(some flat out told me this, she was a so called femal friend) told me until I get a good job no women will date me,mo can't pay for their vacations, dinners out, and gifts.

I'd rather cuddle up on the beach or porch watching the sun set/rise(can't Remember which) over the ocean. But that'd probably be a week a year. How are guys expected to keep their good jobs while vacationing multiple times a year? Most people get 2 weeks vacation time a year. I think a lot of women have unrealistic goals.
Like others have said, how do they afford all those expensive vacations overseas.
What's wrong with staying at a beach house(was a cabin) or camping in the woods.

I gotta reply when I get home from work, you deserve a better respond than I can put together in a few minutes.

Until then, the one common theme that seems to be in most of the 'positive' advice you've gotten from several posters is to try to maintain optimism no matter how hard it is. Bitterness chases potential partners away, regardless of their (potential partner's) gender, regardless of the gender of the person expressing it. I don't even know if it works well as an 'issue in common', like two bitter people would end up repelling each other even if it actually gives them something to talk about and agree on.

I don't deserv anything, I've come through accept that mostly, I'm certainly not good enough form happiness, so I don't allow myself to smile. It only rarely happens when talking with women I like. Happiness is for real men

Sly, seems you and I share a common experience where women are concerned, but I feel like you let that experience dictate your perception of all of womankind (is that a word? o.O ). Those thoughts and opinions you express on here, they cross my mind regularly, but you have to resist them. Your financial situation is not the issue, people in ridiculous poverty have girlfriends too. Homeless people have girlfriends. Fat people get girlfriends too. You've been given a lot of great tips here and elsewhere, and I know (I really do), those are hard to live by, but you have to do it. The closest I've ever came to getting a girlfriend was when I was focusing on being successful at work and ignoring my personal issues. Girls actually came to me (at which point I'd manage to scare them off but that's a work in progress :/ )

If you truly believe it's about you being fat and poor, here's a good one for you: I dropped 50 pounds this summer and I've been raking in roughly 5 times more money than I need to live in what I consider opulence for years (NTs call it being poor, but like you I don't need much ) and I still can't get a date. It's not about looks and money (well, sometimes it is, but those are not the kind of girls that would make guys like us happy anyhow ), it's about attitude and behavior. Find something in which you look impressive. If you're a huge gamer, show off your gaming skills! Get a youtube channel going or something. I've been told a million times I have to "get out of my comfort zone" but as far as I can tell that's absolute BS, you have to bring girls into YOUR comfort zone, show them you can be awesome too.

That said, that's step one: attracting a girl. Then you and I will have to work on step 2: maneuvering this whole dating business, but you know, one step at a time my friend.

Final detail: if it's really about your looks and finances, well those are on you to fix. Take long walks regularly (they don't feel like work like jogging or other sports might, plus you can pretend you're exploring a Minecraft world or something ) and you'll be dropping weight in no time. Getting a good job is not that hard either, you just need the right skillset, and guess what? Your difference makes you awesome at acquiring new skills! Put that ND brain of your to it's god-given purpose (just an expression, not religious) and I assure you, that alone will impress the ladies.

Back to the original topic, something weird happened today. there's this new, really cute girl at work and today she asked to speak with me regarding some work related matter for which I was arguably not the most qualified person but she insisted anyhow. When I got to her desk, she immediately pulled out a small container with strawberries, which I understand has some sexual connotation to some folks, and gently ate them while we spoke. At one point, I can't recall her exact words, but she said something that was context appropriate but also highly suggestive in a sexual way and I pointed that out, which made her laugh quite a bit. As I'm writing this I'm realizing this may have been a very sexually charged conversation from her perspective. Anyhow, I guess I'm trying to understand if there might be something going on here or if it's just wishful thinking. Ladies, does this sound like a demonstration of interest or was this really all about work and the sexual innuendo was unintentional?

Worth noting, I'm still not over the girl who prompted me to start this thread, and I have yet to ask her out, but it would be nice to know there's someone out there who finds me desirable. That, plus, can't hurt to keep options open, I don't think things are going to go my way with this other girl :/

Ok this last line has prompted another question: If the new girl is in fact interested and trying to show it, would she be insulted that I ask the first one out? She probably has no clue I'm different and would not understand that I'm not understanding that she likes me, if that makes any sense. Both are very interesting in their own way and I'm not sure how to best navigate this, especially since I have to work with the first girl for another 2 months and the new girl indefinitely.

**edit** before somebody gives me the "dont s**t where you eat" line, I get it, but I just don't care anymore. I got my priorities all figured out and finding completion in my personal life far outweights my need for fucktons of money I don't spend

Not true, you deserve to not be miserable, and maybe to have some people in your life to vent to when things are bad.





I think China's roughly 1.3-1.5 billion, India is about another billion. Obviously some of them are too old, too young, already attached, gay or otherwise unsuitable. Most of them are too far away to be realistic, but that's missing the point. I'm mostly pushing the perspective that there's too many to base your hopes for all eternity on the couple hundred (or fewer?) you've encountered so far - especially in regards to what they do for entertainment. That said, observer bias may be distorting both our perspectives, I tend to not pay much attention to people like you describe being surrounded by, so they don't really appear notable.

As for intoxicants, most of them don't result in vomitting. It's really just alcohol that causes one to not "remember what you did and vomit" and even then only in excess. As for the others, typically they cause release of either serotonin or dopamine or both, many can be quite euphoric, others relaxing, some both. And while you might not physically have something to show, I'm pretty sure the second time I consumed MDMA, 14 years ago now, has had a more enduring (and positive) impact on my life and mental health than anything else I spent $15 on that year. The enhanced ability for reflection and objectivity in dealing with internal concerns it allows helps one reconsider perspectives without the tendency towards ego-protection that sometimes interferes without it - that's why there's been discussion of it's role in helping psycoholgical theorpy for decades. But, back on topic...

We both talk about our persceptions of reality, not reality itself. Between the two of us we haven't met 1% of women in North America, so the trends that appear to exist within that sample might be influenced by small sample size.

Anyways, I'm too tired to try to make this any more coherent. Hopefully I didn't set expectations too high.

Why don't you ask the first girl out? If She does like you, yes she'll be hurt if you start going out with someone else. If she doesnt like you that way yes ask strawberry girl out... I'd give it a couple of weeks between asking them though.