The 80/20 percent thing

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Interesting case studies for discussion MaxE. Yeah I think meeting men was more difficult pre-internet so women were a little deprived of male contact were more inclined to take a chance based on men who in their proximity. Nowadays a man is only "a swipe away" so this type of scenario is less frequent than before.

My cousin who was very successful with women lived in what was "night club/bar culture" where you frequent the same drinking spots, often 3-4 times a week (including after work). He became familiar figure within the "culture" and through this network met numerous women who drifted in/and out. the culture here is bigger than just your own social group as you exist in 1-2 degrees of separation. the advantage for women is you have a "Friends" type meetup place where everyone knows who you are even if you aren't actually friends. He's twice divorced with 2 grown up kids and in his 50s now but amazingly still hangs out and is part of this culture. He's currently dating somebody who is 27 and it seems to be long term but she looks like his daughter which is a little weird.

Point is, this ecosystem provides men a familiar place to hang out (of course blow money on drinks) and a place where women can get to know the men in the area in a safe space that's not tinder or Bumble.

I think it sounds like you and MaxE had a lot going for you both in terms of sexual attractiveness. It may also be the women thought you paid attention to them which is something attractive. In my case when I was younger I only superficially understood how I actually appear to the opposite sex (I think a lot of men have this problem) and was not very sophisticated in terms of social intelligence. I made up for it by talking a lot, and wise men say if you say too much you give the other person ammunition to find a reason why they don't like you.

Another friendly reminder than not all relationships are healthy or safe.

And that exploitation can take on many faces. Including "wisdom".

Wisdom in a relationship is potentially "unhealthy and unsafe"? give examples...

When it comes to getting friends or sexual partners I think it's about having a genuine interest. I find it hard to maintain friendships. I get very easily bored by people and I am probably too self-involved to be a good friend. When I find a woman attractive I get interested in her life and her thoughts and think that we could be friends. Romantic or sexual partners are in my opinion no real substitute for friends. When women find out that I just want to be friends they usuallly lose interest.

"Wisdom" can take many faces as well.

Prejudice often confuses stereotypes for "wisdom".

In the mind of a thief, "wisdom" is often "the best way to steal".

In the mind of a con-man, "wisdom" is often "the best way to lie / cheat".

In the mind of a "playa", "wisdom" is often "the best way to play women".

In the mind of an abuser, "wisdom" is knowing the best way to "punish" someone so they comply in the future.

In the mind of a racist, "wisdom" is knowing the "good" races from the "bad" races.

And while some of us may see a moral issue here, typically, the people doing the things, do not have any such moral hang-ups, and to them, these things are simply quite sensible "wisdom" - even if we can see them for what they really are.

The "wisdom" that women only want men who look "cashed up" is a generalization that misrepresents women for the sake of the male ego. It justifies a certain treatment towards women, and absolves men of having to put any work into anything meaningful.

The "wisdom" that one shouldn't talk too much, lest someone find something they don't like about you, is literally an example of adverse selection risk. Omission of information, in particular if it would affect the outcome, is still a form of dishonesty.

Just from those two things alone, men are being dishonest about who women are, and who they themselves are - and this portrayal tends to benefit men, at the expense of women - at least insofar as it makes sad men feel better about themselves, cos it's not THEM, it's the WOMEN.

I'd like to know how one plans to grow a healthy and safe relationship when the guy has already built a bed of lies for both parties to lay in?

Like I said, I'm not sure a lotta y'all even know what a heathy relationship is.

I agree with most of this, but it wasn't my point. I was really trying to say that rating lower on the 1 - 10 scale didn't make me less interested sexually in those women, but when I look back on the situation, I still didn't value them as highly.

It brings something else to mind though. In my experience at the time, young women didn't seem to doubt that guys would want to have sex with them despite not having bodies like TikTok influencers. The 3rd young woman I mentioned was physically very awkward and had hair around her nipples, but didn't consider for a second that I would reject her sexually. Nowadays, she'd probably think that I'd find her body disgusting and either would refuse to have sex with her on seeing her naked, or if I did it would be because I had cynically chosen to use her and dispose of her, instead of acting out of simple 23-year-old horniness. That could actually be a factor in the whole 80/20 thing.

Interesting! I would be interested in what female members of WP will have to say about that. In my experience female-male relationships involving singles ends up being transactional in some way. And yes, the women I hung out with knew I found them attractive which maybe boosted their ego like they were being treated like celebrities.

Oh that type of wisdom does make sense...

this is literally the major explanation for the 80/20 thing. Average/below average 2-4 ranked women knowing they can have sex with men who might be ranked 7-8. I worked with 2 overweight young ladies (who had pretty faces) who bragged at work lunches that if they wanted sex they could go to a nightclub and they could go home with any man. their confidence was through the roof.

When was this? Early 90s?

Yeah if they were giving clear signals that they were seeking sex for its own sake, they wouldn't have much trouble. I don't know how things may have changed, but nowadays it seems many women are uncomfortable with that idea. If they actually bragged about it, they might be leaving themselves open to shut shaming.

Of course there's a group of women that participate in "hook-up culture" via Tinder, but I doubt very many would brag about that at a work function.

this was in the late 2000s (2005-7) so still well before social media/tinder.
I got the impression the young ladies (who were 21/22) were overcompensating for being overweight. they were pretty/attractive but their personalities were immature.

Some things I wanted to comment on.

I think if most women knew that someone deemed them attractive enough for sex but not attractive enough for a relationship they’d decide to move along because they’d believe that they deserve more than that even if they solely wanted a sexual relationship. It’s a self-respect thing. There’d likely be more suitable prospects out there, too.

Another thing: It’s not so easy for some women to find appropriate sexual or romantic partners. There are a number of reasons for that, some of which UCD touched on. The sheer fact of being a woman doesn’t mean one will get interest or, at least, the right kind of interest.

Most people seem to be average-looking and have average-looking partners although I hate rating people. I’m just not seeing this 80/20 stuff in the real world.

This reminds me of my first girlfriend.

I saw her once after we were no longer a couple, on which occasion she literally bragged to me about going by herself to bars, drinking, and leaving with guys she met there.

Rather than being self-conscious about this, she talked about it like she had discovered the most amazing thing in the world.

So lemme get this straight...

You think women are being delusional or overconfident cos they're certain they can get a man in bed, on the grounds that you don't find them terribly attractive - but y'all are the same guys that have had sex with women you didn't even find attractive, or value very highly?

Seems to me that y'all are literally the guys having sex with the "unattractive" women, to then turn around and say they can't get men, when you're literally the kind of man they're getting.

It would sure be ironic if men who were 3s trying to get with women who are 7s were complaining about women who they thought were 3s going after men they thought were 7s.

It would be about as ironic as asking women what they think, even though it's blatantly clear that the current fashion is to simply declare what women think, and even when women do opine, they get ignored, argued with, gaslit, etc...

I've got a question for the guys - since y'all like rating people with numbers so much, what do y'all rate yourselves?

Oh I'll tell you what Hanna was a good 7.5 to 8 but based on my treatment of her I'd probably rate myself as a 3 but I'm sure she'd rate me lower