Don't trust ANYTHING women say.

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I like this thread, some of the posters have given me some useful insights into the male mind.

Good answer. I'm sure the following scenario is pretty common: a guy and a girl are interested in each other, the guy from past experiences is trying to read the signs rather than ask a straight question (which are a turn-off for most women and don't reliably get you truthful answers), for whatever reason he concludes she's not interested (she might be playing hard to get, for example), hence doesn't ask her out. She could change this by saying something, but expects him to read her mind, and they never date.
I think it's a bit rich of someone to criticise others for failing to do something she herself would never do (who 'doesn't have the guts' here, the ones that sometimes pose the question or the ones hat never do?)
Don't get me started on 'playing hard to get,' the only possible reason for it I can see (since you obviously run the risk of being too convincing) is an ego trip, getting the guy to grovel at your feet before you deign to even glance at him. In a way, it doesn't matter in my case, because if she plays games then I don't want her anyway, so in practice it doesn't matter if her response is genuine or an act, either way it's not going to happen.

I truly wonder how hardwired the human courtship ritual is. Because as Kezzstar pointed out
sometimes women actually do take the lead. Are women actually taught that the should just wait for the man to
make the first move?

in most species, females are the ones who select the male to breed with.
When 2 male deers fight , the female will always accept to breed with the winner ...never with the loser.

When a girl says to a guy :"We'll be just friends" then she biologically means " You are not selected by me as a potential mate and you'll never be".

ZenM should know that but he did the famous mistake that many many guys do it is: Hope.
Human males do this mistake a lot , they accept the 'friendship condition' in the first place but they still hoping that this 'friendship' might turns to love .... they are very wrong. And once the girl clarifies this once again they start whining , crying and start blaming girls for their evolutionary nature instead of blaming their own stupidity , like ZenM is doing right now.

I was friends first with my ex, and I know of other cases. Yes, usually opposite sex friendship doesn't lead to anything else (and if you're romantically attracted to a girl that doesn't like you in that way it's probably best to just avoid her), but it's not set in stone. Liking someone as a friend doesn't mean you would like them romantically - there is one girl that might be interested in me and, while I like her as a friend, I am not interested in her sexually or romantically (in this instance traditional roles work to my advantage, as I don't have to worry about rejecting her in a nice way, as she will never initiate anything). In my case, however, I am not interested in sports, cars and so on, so there are no obvious common interests with most guys and hence no particular advantage to male friendship - most guys would not likely be friends with a girl they had no sexual or romantic interest in, because they would be unlikely to share common interests like football. There is also a it of a societal taboo against opposite-sex friendships that are just friendships - you're 'allowed' to be friends as long as it's with benefits.

I have improved at being the one who initiates. Yet when I do, I get blown off most of the time.

After further consideration, I'd like to clarify something.

I generally agree with pbcoll and LePetitPrince on the summary of why.

There is a huge distinction between what I want or want to be true on one hand, and what I see as true on the other. I like girls who express things to me verbally. I still have a hard time understanding sometimes, but it's a lot easier than non-verbal.

As for how I feel about the difference...

"I have no mouth..."

The guy has to initiate with me. That's just how I'm built.

GrantZilla, you said better than I could ever hope to!
juliekitty-has your approach of making the guy initiate worked well for ya?

Uh huh.

I agree here
invisible touch all of them lol

Hey people, what about flirting??
Seriously though-I've NEVER understood why women never flirt with guys they are seriously interested in. Instead they do it to guys they have no intention of being serious with, basically to tease them. I mean, a couple of years back I had some women flirting with me and I assumed that they were doing it to let me know that they found me attractive but when I made the moves they immediately BACKED OFF. I dont understand why women like zee her on WP are being so nasty and hard-nosed about the fact that aspie men simply cannot pick up on indirectness! What she said is really Not helpful. Flirting has always struck me as a way for a woman to get a guy to notice her, so Why the f**k is it always done with such insincerity?

...because NT's are pathological liars?

ah... I've already been through this one...

What one? That NTs are pathological liars?.....why yes and there's no need to reply to that. But As for my question juliekitty-since when did ever ask that specifically?

Are your parents NTs? What about the rest of your family?

Is the guy at the store an NT? Do you not trust him to count your change?

Do you trust anyone you meet when they tell you their name?

Do you ever leave the f*****g house if you actually believe this?

Because I think it's utterly ridiculous, and I'd like to think that you're just blowing smoke up our ass that you actually think this. But if you really do, then I'm amazed you ever manage to leave your goddamn bedroom.

There is so much bitching on this forum, and elsewhere, and from people with AS I know in real life, about how NTs don't get us, and they don't understand us, and they descriminate against us and they should be more forgiving because we can't help the way we are. And yet so many of you have this inherent prejudice against people who - yes- aren't the ones with the problem.

I am completely happy with who I am as a person, and that's someone with Asperger's syndrome. I'm cool with that. But what you guys have to deal with is that it's us who is screwed up, not them. THEY are the normal ones (if you even believe in normality), we are the ones who are different.

And if you insult NTs, you insult 99% of my friends, you insult 95% of my family and virtually everyone else I've ever met, and I won't stand for that.

Women aren't all liars, men aren't all liars. That's the same old s**t that ANYONE spouts when they have a bad experience in a relationship or get dumped, and it's never been true once you wake up the next morning with a hang over. NTs, men, women, whoever it is that you guys seem to think are completely dishonest and all this crap, can be wonderful, intelligent, caring and yes, honest people.

Wake up!