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Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

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hyperlexian
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18 Apr 2012, 9:07 pm

minervx wrote:
why be selfish, be a jerk, and treat the other person like crap?

why be desperate, and treat some stranger you barely know like she is above you?

why not just treat the person with respect, as equals?

this too!


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UnLoser
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18 Apr 2012, 10:11 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
UnLoser wrote:
You guys are scaring me. If women want overconfident jerks, screw 'em. I will never be like that.


Where are you seeing this?


All over this thread. Of course, there are just as many posts about confidence, which I severely lack. Either way, I seem to be screwed. I can't see myself ever being socially confident. I'm a painfully shy, awkward person who can't carry a conversation to save my life. Yeah, I have plenty of time to improve... I'm only a teenager after all, but I can't see myself making any huge strides.

I'm not grabbing for pity, in case it seems that way. But it really does make me feel better to vent a bit.



bizboy1
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18 Apr 2012, 11:07 pm

AutisticMalcontent wrote:
Well I'm going to cite off a cliche' that everyone is familiar with- "Nice guys finish last". I am a strong believer in this cliche', the reasons being very simple, according to what I've observed. First off all, nice guys are typically "normal" and are not nearly as interesting/exciting and wild as overly confident guys/jerks/charming guys. Note that I am not using jerks as a synonym for all confident guys romantically, just a select group. Secondly, nice guys tend to be shy and not nearly as assertive romantically like confident guys tend to be. And finally, nice guys, in their shyness, don't understand about how to approach girls/women romantically, and therefore they appear awkward around them.

These are the reasons why nice guys fail I believe. But I also have another belief and I'm curious as to how many agree with me on this. Since nice guys are often rejected because of their shyness, girls tend to go out with guys that exude confidence, and who also tend to be jerks after a while. This is my opinion, I think that girls who reject nice guys and date jerk-type guys more than deserve the heartache they will eventually feel, whether it be a bad breakup, being used, or whatever else. I'm not saying that every girl has to date one particular nice guy, but I'm saying that if a girl rejects a nice guy for a jerk, isn't it fitting that she pay the consequence of her choice? Kind of like the physics principle "For every reaction there is a opposite and equal reaction"? Just my thoughts, tell me what you guys think ;)


Interesting. I just posted this video in Love and Dating:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR26tyGYVNk[/youtube]



edgewaters
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18 Apr 2012, 11:54 pm

UnLoser wrote:
Of course, there are just as many posts about confidence, which I severely lack. Either way, I seem to be screwed. I can't see myself ever being socially confident. I'm a painfully shy, awkward person who can't carry a conversation to save my life. Yeah, I have plenty of time to improve... I'm only a teenager after all, but I can't see myself making any huge strides.


Have a little faith. At your age, everyone goes by the "default" social model. It gets less vanilla as you get older and people get more experienced. Some (not alot, but a certain proportion) girls will decide they like shy and awkward. Not saying that there's any such thing as an introverted Casanova, but being shy doesn't doom you to being alone forever and ever. Look:

http://www.wikihow.com/Get-a-Shy-Guy

See?



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Apr 2012, 3:41 am

minervx wrote:
why be selfish, be a jerk, and treat the other person like crap?

why be desperate, and treat some stranger you barely know like she is above you?

why not just treat the person with respect, as equals?

[/quote]

If people treat you like crap then you should treat them as crap as well, in a subtle polite way ;p.



Jono
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19 Apr 2012, 4:53 am

LKL wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
LKL wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
As some women have explained it to me - and I'm inclined to agree, in some cases - shy does not necessarily mean nice. You can be shy and still be needy, possessive, jealous, and controlling, none of which are particularly nice to the other person. You can even see that mentality in some of the comments on the thread, with some people saying they're being "ripped off" by the "jerks". Women don't *owe* you anything, either individually or collectively.

Of course, it goes without saying, you can be shy and not have these qualities, or confident and have them all in spades. Looking back at my own history, I'm inclined to think that although I thought of myself as "nice" because I was quiet and shy, I was also very possessive and clingy and jealous.

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@ Boo: humans are neither gorillas nor bonobos.


True, but we share a lot of things (Genetic fact).

We're genetically closer to bonobos than we are to gorillas (also fact), so by the 'evolutionary psychology' BS logic, we should all be happy free-love masturbators.


Judging from the Kinsey reports, we probably are.



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Apr 2012, 4:57 am

Quote:
edgewaters wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Yea, I started late, very late, maybe too late for anything now. :-/

But yes, being little assertive (and ass) does really pay off somehow.

For instance, there's the single mom woman that i was supposed to had a lunch (during the lunch break!) with on Thursday, I kept waiting and she she didn't show up, i contacted her and said she forgot about it!! ! and this wasn't the first time she doesn't come for a set up lunch...

So in return, I stopped calling/contacting for the rest of day, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and the whole Monday day, and on the Monday-Tuesday midnight she sent me a text saying "where are you? I miss you a lot. Why you're not contacting me?", I replied "I got busy", and later in the convo she was like 'got busy with some girl perhaps?" , "no, not this time, why asking?" .....and now we're talking again.


Reciprocity isn't being a jerk or disrespectful, it's just self-respect.



I'll reply this in the nice guys thread.


I call it a jerk behavior because it's what a jerk would do and what a nice guy (even the genuine type) might not do.

Nice guys (the real) might be too forgiving and good-hearted to even give a cold treatment to anyone.

Sadly, I've learned that people don't deserve forgiving and would perceive it as weakness and try to suck your soul for it,, and that applies on women you're seeking to date as well.



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19 Apr 2012, 5:13 am

"Nice guy" is such a vanilla, umbrella term. Someone (don't remember who) once said that it was just a polite insult. But, given the choice between the broad spectrum of people within either the "nice" camp or the "jerk" camp, I would choose the nice camp, every time.

Thing is, it's not just about nice. It's about the rest of him, too -- and by that I mean what makes him interesting, what makes him a person, what makes him him and not that guy over there.

Now, I'm not a stunner. I'm not even particularly pretty. I am in the vague realm of "meh", drifting a little to either side depending on my self-confidence that day. So y'know, I'm not drop dead gorgeous. Does that make me not count, here? Because I've only read some of these messages, but that's the vibe I'm getting.

Guys, if you complain that nice guys only get the ugly girls, as if girls who are not stunners are the bad apples at the bottom of the barrel that nobody else will take, then, I'm sorry, but you... might not be all that nice.


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20 Apr 2012, 11:45 pm

edgewaters wrote:
UnLoser wrote:
Of course, there are just as many posts about confidence, which I severely lack. Either way, I seem to be screwed. I can't see myself ever being socially confident. I'm a painfully shy, awkward person who can't carry a conversation to save my life. Yeah, I have plenty of time to improve... I'm only a teenager after all, but I can't see myself making any huge strides.


Have a little faith. At your age, everyone goes by the "default" social model. It gets less vanilla as you get older and people get more experienced. Some (not alot, but a certain proportion) girls will decide they like shy and awkward.


No it just seems to doom me to be alone while I'm young and my potential dating pool still have a few years before they start to look like their moms.



hyperlexian
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20 Apr 2012, 11:50 pm

rabbittss wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
UnLoser wrote:
Of course, there are just as many posts about confidence, which I severely lack. Either way, I seem to be screwed. I can't see myself ever being socially confident. I'm a painfully shy, awkward person who can't carry a conversation to save my life. Yeah, I have plenty of time to improve... I'm only a teenager after all, but I can't see myself making any huge strides.


Have a little faith. At your age, everyone goes by the "default" social model. It gets less vanilla as you get older and people get more experienced. Some (not alot, but a certain proportion) girls will decide they like shy and awkward.


No it just seems to doom me to be alone while I'm young and my potential dating pool still have a few years before they start to look like their moms.

has it occurred to you that the attitude you're bringing to the table may be affecting your prospects?


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rabbittss
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20 Apr 2012, 11:54 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
has it occurred to you that the attitude you're bringing to the table may be affecting your prospects?


See, you are doing it again. You are constantly telling me to settle on everyone elses leftovers.

"You don't have to date her, just be her friend"
"You don't have to have an healthy girl, that fat girl will do!"
"You don't need a girl you are attracted to, that one you have nothing in common with will be fine!"
"you don't need to have a healthy sex life while your young, wait and fool around when you're old!"

It's all I see from you over and over again. Always the same thing. You're a broken record.

From now on I'm only ever going to reply to you with the phrase DILLIGAF.



hyperlexian
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21 Apr 2012, 12:01 am

no, once again i didn't say that. i am talking about your attitude.

this post is disrespectful to women in general:

Quote:
No it just seems to doom me to be alone while I'm young and my potential dating pool still have a few years before they start to look like their moms.


phrases like that turn women off.


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rabbittss
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21 Apr 2012, 12:04 am

DILLIGAF



Delphiki
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21 Apr 2012, 12:14 am

bizboy1 wrote:
AutisticMalcontent wrote:
Well I'm going to cite off a cliche' that everyone is familiar with- "Nice guys finish last". I am a strong believer in this cliche', the reasons being very simple, according to what I've observed. First off all, nice guys are typically "normal" and are not nearly as interesting/exciting and wild as overly confident guys/jerks/charming guys. Note that I am not using jerks as a synonym for all confident guys romantically, just a select group. Secondly, nice guys tend to be shy and not nearly as assertive romantically like confident guys tend to be. And finally, nice guys, in their shyness, don't understand about how to approach girls/women romantically, and therefore they appear awkward around them.

These are the reasons why nice guys fail I believe. But I also have another belief and I'm curious as to how many agree with me on this. Since nice guys are often rejected because of their shyness, girls tend to go out with guys that exude confidence, and who also tend to be jerks after a while. This is my opinion, I think that girls who reject nice guys and date jerk-type guys more than deserve the heartache they will eventually feel, whether it be a bad breakup, being used, or whatever else. I'm not saying that every girl has to date one particular nice guy, but I'm saying that if a girl rejects a nice guy for a jerk, isn't it fitting that she pay the consequence of her choice? Kind of like the physics principle "For every reaction there is a opposite and equal reaction"? Just my thoughts, tell me what you guys think ;)


Interesting. I just posted this video in Love and Dating:


Isn't the video you posted about the guy who treats women horribly?



hyperlexian
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21 Apr 2012, 12:22 am

rabbittss wrote:
DILLIGAF

no apparently not, and that may be part of the problem. aside from your specific criteria, you say some things that are pretty nasty about the people you don't fancy. even if a girl doesn't fit in the criteria that you have such a hate-on for, she'd likely still be offended.


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21 Apr 2012, 12:26 am

I personally know bad girls that like to go out with nice guys. And girls that have a thing for taking guys virginity some girls are attracted to virgins. So no nice guys don't fiinish last that's a cop out and a myth.