Made for a Different Society?

Post Reply New Topic

Only in recent times has the mobility of society defined our culture. In fact, everything about what you must do to live in today's world has changed.

Before industrialization, your success was tied into your ability to learn a trade. Those who had the drive to learn these things were very successful. Back then, your resume meant making a shoe, sword, or piece of furniture and submitting that for comparison. The best resume simply meant making the highest quality products.

Dating was nothing like it is today. Back then there wasn't a whole lot of casual dating. You found someone who would be willing to take care of you and support you, and you stuck with them. Those who had the drive to learn a trade, do it well, and provide for a family were wildly successful.

Today, everything has changed. Your resume is a host of words orchestrated perfectly. It only gets worse in the interview, where they care more about how friendly you are than how productive you are or how much you know. It's no longer about your willingness to learn a trade. It's about how you talk to other people. Dating has become the same. It's not about your moral character, willingness to provide for a family, and desire to learn trades. It's about how well you talk, how well you fit into these irrational guidelines for dating.

This is where I mention Asperger's Syndrome. It's emblematic of these pre-industrial success stories. Obsessions with odd topics in those times could have been invaluable in developing trade skills. The dating situation would have been perfect. You had your trade, the moral character, and a strong willingness and desire to settle down. Talking incessantly about that trade only emphasized how much you enjoyed it, which would have been a good thing. If you go to any Aspie support site today, and check the romance section, everything is emblematic of this. They would do anything for someone that would simply be there for them. They have the interest in developing odd skills. They have the willingness to stick around to provide for children.

The problem is, this isn't what society values anymore. It's not about your willingness to learn a trade and stick with it. It's not about your willingness to provide for a spouse and children. It's not about your moral character, or intelligence. It's all about how well you talk to other people. It's about how well you sell yourself to other people.

With an abundance of resources, people have plenty of time to play popularity games from a young age. Society itself begins basing things off these popularity games. Suddenly it's about how well you speak, not your desire to learn a trade, intelligence, moral character, or willingness to stick around. Aspies are at a disadvantage here. In old times, we had the upper hand. We were the ones who focused right away on picking a topic and learning everything about it, becoming the master artisans. In old times, I wouldn't have the problems I have now. None of us would.

Maybe we're not from the wrong planet, just the wrong time period.

"Although there are many possible symptoms of Asperger’s syndrome, the main symptom is severe trouble with social situations. Your child may have mild to severe symptoms or have a few or many of these symptoms. Because of the wide variety of symptoms, no two children with Asperger's are alike."
Web MD Diagnostic Reference

Yeah, but back then we wouldn't have the internet...

I think I agree with you entirely as far as the whole bit about social skills being valued over productivity or overall ability to do a job.

On the other hand, that last sentence of yours sounds very cynical. I wouldn't say that we are born in the wrong time period, particularly me because I couldn't live without Law and Order SVU. All joking aside, I don't know if there's an explanation for not fitting in with certain groups of people other than being the minority.

Actually was something I contemplated earlier today, looking at a video game poll on a website for the best game of all time. Now no matter what I think the best game of all time is, whatever is the most "popular" vote decides the outcome. Its the same thing in recent society, as far as socializing and whats appealing, the majority rules.

Would we have the same problems in a different time period? Maybe but we'd definitely have different problems.

I love the Star Trek references.


I think it would have been far more receptive to our kind. Our deep interests would have been a quick route to winning apprenticeships at any blacksmith shop, shipyard, furniture facility, or otherwise. The depth of interest and knowledge would then push us to the top positions. Our deep honesty and reverence for the rules would have given us a good reputation among a very religious society. Our desire for family and kids, combined with our desire to stay, our moral character, and our top artisan positions would have put us at or near the top of the social ladder in those times.

Although i agree there are environments out there where we would function well, i think your veiw of the past is very romantic, possibly because you didn't have to live in it. In general social skills have been applicable to functioning throughout the age of civilisation and were probably just as applicable when our main way of life was nomadic.

My ancestors were master artisans. It would help greatly if there was less emphasis now on how one talks, rather than what one says etc. However, I would not have fit in well with traditional value systems, particularly being female (where I'd be a whole lot more limited than I am now).

I doubt that things have ever been (or will ever be) easy for us, but "back then," it was probably even worse. Society was a lot more conformist and intolerant of anyone who was considered "different." Social awkwardness would simply have not been tolerated. And since most people were illiterate, intellectual pursuits were not valued very much, save for a few fields like medicine.

From what I've read on the subject, Autistic and Aspie folks are a lot better off now. This is borne out especially in certain areas like Silicon valley, where the Autism and Asperger rate shot up significantly since the beginning of the dot com era.

Wired Magazine (crappy as they are) had a good rationale for why this is. Prior to the dot com era, a lot of Aspies and Autistics were basically that neglected hermit of a family member who lived in the basement, played with model trains, never married, and maybe never really had a productive job. We still see that a lot here -- for every one of us who is gainfully employed, there are a lot who aren't, despite there being plenty of jobs that don't rely on social interaction in any significant way (like programming). It's like the job field didn't have enough of an overlap with Aspie and Autistic interests back then. Because they were so socially isolated, there was little chance of them reproducing.

Fast-forward to the '90s and 2000's -- Lots of jobs for programmers, statisticians, and tech savvy folks, many of whom were either Aspie or had Aspie characteristics. They start actually meeting their opposite gender counterparts and getting married, having kids. Do two Aspies have an increased chance of having an Aspie kid? Probably. And now you see hard-core Aspies like Bill Gates (making an assumption here, he's got to at least be part Aspie) becoming successful beyond their wildest dreams. On a lower level, many of us are now able to carry on conversation and relationships online, and get some social fulfillment, instead of being the town weirdo no one talks to, as would happen in the OP's original situation in pre-industrial society.

You know, I must be one of the weird ones, though not too far off. I am 23 years old and have been married for 2 years. I will say that I lucked out. Not to many romantic interests in my life. I have only had 3 girlfriends in my life and only bedded two of them. I married the third and second from both catagories, respectivly.

How did I land her? Easy. We were both drunk at a party. She thought I was cute and thought my eyes (which are two seperate colors...anyone else with AS have multi-color/color changing eyes?) were "pretty". So she was making great eye contact, which is something I didn't do well, but I was drunk so I did it back anyway. She asked what my hobbies and interests were. I told her cars, star wars, guitar, video games, gardening, driving fast, racing, etc.

Now any of these subjects can be a landmine for somebody who is unaquainted with AS, and she stepped on the biggest one at the time: My exceptionally vast knowledge of Star Wars (it's been replaced by leanring to play guitar)

I then went on to babel like the complete geek I am for the better part of an hour and a half, on my current favorite aspie subject, whilst fueled up on beer.

I am suprized she stuck around, though she doesn't have AS, but she is on the same boat as us and just as weird for lack of better description. Her bipolar mood swings are equal to my AS fueled ones. And her schitzophenia is well controlled, as her brain fires just as oddly as mine, but never worse.

That said, were never on the same page, but at least were in the same book.

I always adopted the attitude that you will eventually find your soulmate, where ever they may be, because love is transcendent and you can find it in the oddest places.

Being able to interact socially has always been critical to success. Having AS in the pre-industrialized world would have let you learn a trade but that is still possible today, just not as necessary. Overall I think there would have been a slightly better chance at a moderate level of success but nothing major.

I'd like to take this in a slightly different direction, one that, when I read the topic title, I thought this was about.

In the interracial couples/foreign wifes threads a while back, people observed that sometimes Aspies seem to do well with other, non-North American/Western cultures, or people from those outside cultures who live in North America/Western Europe.

I tend to agree. Case in point -- in many northern Asian societies (Japan, Korea, China), people are expected to be polite, quiet, and not necessarily expressing emotion all over the place. It is quite normal for men to be withdrawn or reticent with their thoughts. This could be why Aspies might do better in those cultures, or do better in terms of dating with people from those cultures.

I used to think I would be better off in a different time period but the mere fact that they don't automatically lock up anyone with Autism or Tourettes Syndrome these days as others have posted makes me feel more blessed I live when I do. At least these days, they GIVE you a chance. Back then, I don't think they did.

Very true. Even if you avoided being put away most aspies would probably be labeled the village idiot and regulated to menial labor, treated like crap, and never given a real chance to succeed.

The point is, at least as I get it, that our contemporary society expect us to be exceedingly “socially competent”. In the past, you didn’t have to be even remotely sociable to succeed as a shoemaker – you just had to offer people descent shoes and you would have been accepted and respected. Today we put such an emphasize on social and interactive skills, that socially awkward behaviour become more conspicuous and prone to cause unease. In the past, weird habits and quirks among aspies might had been shrugged off, provided you could compensate it with other qualities that made you valuable to society, e.g. be skilled at some craft or trade.

That belief of how society worked in the past rests upon a very narrow view. You're only looking at one small part of the overall picture. Knowledge wasn't as freely available then as it is now. To learn to be a shoemaker, or any other skilled profession, would have required an apprenticeship to one, and the person teaching you is going to be picky about who he chooses. He's going to pick the person he likes, which requires social skills. Even once the skill is learned you would still need social skills in interacting with customers, financiers, other local merchants and everyone else. It's never been as simple as give people one thing and you will succeed.

On a bigger scale we have these large brains of ours in order to communicate with each other. Stands to reason then that communication would always be an important part of any society. Since almost everyone wants to be successful there will be competition and one way to win amongst us humans is to communicate you ideas better than your opponent.

I consider that a good thing.

To the OP: I'd entirely agree with you, and would prefer to live in a past time period but for one thing; I am female.

Our lot back then was to be social. Full stop. We weren't meant to do anything else, all we were supposed to do with our lives was to gossip with other women, snag husbands, and then gossip again. Oh, and have children.

The past time period would be a living nightmare for aspie women. This time period ain't much better, but at least we are expected to DO something with our lives (even though we have to deal with all the workplace politics crap alongside everyone else).