This "nice guys and jerks" thing..

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Ok, here's the thing.. well, for one thing, narcissists can be incredibly charismatic, and that does get them superficial relationships. I doubt any have truly happy relationships, though.

BUT most girls do want a guy who can protect her.. I know it's old-fashioned, isn't politically correct, yadda yadda.. but it's true. Most girls want someone to stick up for us. We want to know our husbands won't be pushed around, won't get trampled on, won't get bullied. It's not nastiness that's attractive. It's assertiveness. I know I can't deal with people. I know I can't deal with bureaucracies. I know that people can convince me that everything is hopeless and I'd just go curl up and die if Kris didn't take care of me when things like that happened. Sometimes it's hard to see the line between assertive and aggressive, but it's there and it's very, very distinct.

absolutely! I think you are onto something Maggiedoll. The temper of a man is their tendency to want to protect. If the assertiveness is directed outward it does well. I like that in a man.

Merle

It's the knight-in-shining-armor thing.. we're not supposed to want it anymore, totally un-PC.. but what does political correctness have to do with feelings?

Edit: edit deleted do to massive word-twisting.

Last edited by Maggiedoll on 30 Jun 2009, 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

protection doesn't have to be seen throught the Victorian Age model of the women being 'helpless' and the man being 'helpful'. I think that is what being PC is all about actually to figure out how to relate to each other differently.


Merle

I think it is important for us to be who we are. It is absolutely NOT acceptable for a man to be sexist or violent because I can take care of myself.

I probably settled this question for myself about half a centry ago. I was about to score the winning point. Young as I was I knew my little boy opponant would hate me forever if I beat him. Then I scored the winning point.

But that's just me.

This world is making strides in celebrating diversity - lets keep marching

Diversity is good but even trees move in closer from the roots to the trunk as well as spread out from the trunk to the branches

both are needed to sustain the tree much as man needs the shadows along with the sun

There are many kinds of trees growing in a variety of habitats. I am not trying to take away from your view point, only add to it. Please accept my appology for barging in.

pax

Its all good I respect you as my elder and fellow aspie

My dearest Ebonwinter,

I have never been called an elder before - it sounds like a distinguished matriarch! But if you meant the tree instead, please read http://www.2020site.org/trees/elder.html. "The Elder is a tree of such mingled good and evil report" - that is so me! If I am the elder, my sweet Ebonwinter, you are surly a a perfect white flowered Guelder Rose.

Thanks - I feel forgiven!!

Thanks I guess I only used a tree in an analogy because of your avatar

I am a nice guy and average looking. I never could be a swaggering jock or alpha male.

As a teenager and young adult I was attracted to nice quiet girls.

I LOOKED like a jock. Wow did I?

I rode a big fast chopped motorcycle. I wore black leathers and a white silk scarf.

I looked like "Joe Cool" but the girls who liked big bad bikers knew that I wasn't that tough.

[Content removed - M.]

Absolutely, Merle...and to relate to each other as individuals.

You can know every group statistic that has ever been surveyed, but it tells you nothing about the individual standing in front of you. 'Prejudice' means to pre-judge someone based on what [you think] you know about the group s/he is assigned to.

What does this have to do with love and dating? There is always a bit of trying to respond to the social norms in the beginning, but if you are looking for something more long term, you need to be authentic. If that means a 90lb weakling of a guy or Rosie the Riveter of a gal (wow talk about steriotypes - haha) go for it; rock it! At least if no one else likes you, you can like yourself.

I guess I didn't say it right. Never, mind, I'm an idiot.

Its not you, Maggiedoll - there are no idiots here!! !

I became the voice of the counter cultural exception [that probably proves the rule].

I will admit that it is very hard to have to deal with NTWorld first hand. When I was married, my NT husband did that part and I was a stay-at-home mom. It would be nice if I could hire a personal assisstant to be the buffer (as soon as I win the jackpot!), but I'd rather come home to my solitude than have someone hanging around wanting for heaven only knows what from me on a daily basis. Kids are great cause they grow up and have their own lives and yet are a loving, deep, and lasting human connection. However, I only want to live with my dogs. They are fabulous and everything is simple.

It remains inexcusible for any guy to use my independence to excuse his sexism and violence towards women.

that just wasn't what I meant..
I don't know, they guys just need to be needed.. especially if they need the woman. It's not true of all guys, but it certainly is for a lot of them.. it's part of the way they're wired, they need to be useful and help a woman.. especially if the woman is doing things that they CAN'T do. (And there are certain things that men are biologically incapable of doing..) But even of the things that they're just not good at doing.. If a man depends on a woman, and she doesn't depend on him, how is he going to feel? Constantly frustrated and angry? Guys have feelings too.