Aspie Love Q&A

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I found this web page with an interesting Q&A where an NT women interviews an aspie man about love. A search of WP did not turn up any matches to the title or the link so I assume this hasn't been discussed here before.

[Link is no longer in effect - M.]

I found this particularly insightful. "R" has great difficulty with reciprocity in a relationship because of his lack of empathy (empathy in this case meaning the ability to feel the same feelings as one's partner) and theory of mind problems (difficulty knowing what one's partner needs and wants without being told) along with missing nonverbal cues. There's a further difficulty in how to meet those needs even when an aspie does intellectually know what they are.

I had to read this several times to fully digest what R is saying and I think I tend to agree with him. It's obvious from the questions that AC asks and the comments she makes that the expectations in a relationship between NTs and aspies are very different.

I wonder how many of you identify with R?

He makes some good points but there are aspies out there that are capable of loving someone else. However, being aspies, they may have difficulty maintaining a relationship but not all aspies are exactly alike.

I got around this issue by having two "modes" of operation for my brain, almost a hyperthreading of the mind (in a sense).

I can temporarily (up to 12 hours if prepared for it) emulate NT behavior. There are some caveats... I still refuse to drink/do drugs, dance, or go to clubs, all of which would still overwhelm me and break my NT mode, and extended periods of this can also break it. Not enough to maintain a long-term relationship, unfortunately, but at least I can provide some sense of empathy...

On the other hand, there's the full-autie mode (a take on the term full-automatic) where I can do amazing cognitive and intellectual feats, as well as super-concentrate on something. I go into full-autie mode when faced with something like a multiple choice test, repetitive work (like some of the office work I do at my church), and if i really get into my gaming. However, I will usually be unable to even speak in full-autie mode, and anything that disturbs me from this concentration usually causes me to snap in a very powerful psychological manner. I can stay in this mode for a couple hours if my concentration is left unbroken, but usually I emerge with somewhat of a headache.

I also have a state of mind somewhere in the middle, which is where I usually stay at.

Nice description, this is pretty much me

Don't think I identify more with either person, since I'm neither an NT female nor an ASD male.
Had to click on "make text smaller" after clicking on link to this article because the words were superimposed over each other towards bottom of page. Am unfamiliar with the referenced "By Oneself" article mentioned in the linked-to interview, but here are my responses to the various items brought up.

I disagree with notion that one has to declaratively, verbally "know" what love is in order to "merit" receiving that love from someone. The treatment one gets from another is more important to me than (either one of us) being able to define what that (good/kind/caring) treatment is in (romantic, flowery, poetic) words. If the absence appears in words AND is indicative of a lack in behavior, expression, or communication in total-well, that is significant to me-but the words are not the end all & be all, especially if the actions are present.

I seek reflection of my thoughts/feelings in those with whom I'm conversing, including my boyfriend-though I do have to ask for it from him ("draw him out", as women often seem to have to do for men). However, he's not the one with ASD-I am (he's a "neurotypical" male). Idea of who (which gender) is willing or able to take care of the other member in couple is not nearly so absolute as it is claimed in the article. My boyfriend takes care of me (moreso than the other way around) in countless ways-both "small" gestures & "major" assistance.

Concept of empathy (sharing one another's mental states): we've learned each other through practice over time-so I can guess the likely possibilities for what's going on in his head under specific circumstances & he can do the same for me. These wouldn't work without our having put effort & intent into understanding each other, though-it doesn't arrive fully set up like a kit. That seems normal pattern for any two people "getting to know each other", not unique to us as individuals.

I've also learned to express appreciation through compliments & thanking-it didn't come "ready made" in my brain (nor in my youth)-but during adulthood, I've acquired this "instinct" through intellectually reminding myself to do it. As a kid I didn't have this level of appreciation for being alive, nor did I have people in my life that I really was appreciative of (and that's changed now that I have a boyfriend). Also, getting older makes death feel more palpably imminent, which intensifies the urgency in saying kind things to those who have been good to me, and doing it as soon as possible since I might drop dead tomorrow. I can't look ahead (in cases that involve imagination fabrication simulation)-but I can easily predict that one day I will be dead (and that my boyfriend could die before I do, in which case I'd be totally bereft). Thus, I'd better hurry up & let those who have been good to me know how much I appreciate them (lest I leave something important unsaid).

Reciprocity-we have different ways of saying similar ideas. He expresses his care for me in both actions & words, and I try to do the same-we just have different abilities & skills. "Need" doesn't preclude "want" for another person, having a relationship of some sort with another member of one's species is almost (not quite, but very close) universal among humans. Why is it wrong to admit that it's a "need", rather than having to couch it in "want" terms ?

I'm "loyal" to my partner because 1.) I'm disinclined to voluntarily seek change and 2.) I happen to like him a lot so have no want, need or other motivation to change partners. Both are true and presence of reason #1 doesn't make reason #2 untrue or irrelevant. Reason #1 may also be true for many people in relationships comprised of two "NT" people (just as could be case for couple in which one or both people have an ASD)-but it's considered too shameful (utilitarian) to admit this sort of cause is operating to keep the people together.

"AC" assesses relationship based on economic perspective-if you take then you need to contribute-yet when "R" addressees this point, "AC" accuses "R" of being coldly economic (cost/benefit analysis, commodity) in his outlook. Those terms are exactly how "AC" was framing the issue, though-instead these beliefs & motives are attributed to "R" alone. Talk about "the pot calling the kettle black".

A line in the interview states that women with ASD men have "really reduced their standards" in being with them. I do get insecure & down on myself in wondering "what do I do for" anyone else, or "what do I bring/contribute of value" to the relationship. This question is evoked by others' ideas (which have been communicated to me) that I owe others for helping me (which I've internalized-so I can run this program on my own). Gosh, I don't believe that my boyfriend has reduced his standards to stay with me-then again, I'm an ASD female & he's an "NT" male, so it's hard to compare. It begs the question of how well does advice about the assumed shape/roles in relationship fit, when the partner with ASD is NOT the male & the NT person is NOT the female.

Those are good points. I agree. I didn't gain any insight from the interview besides "It's very hard for an aspie man to get and keep a relationship", which is something that I've heard before and agree with. I also felt that AC and R were talking past each other some in the latter half of the interview.



I don't think that it fits the other way very well at all. Men and women are different in what "standards" they have and in what they experience emotionally in a relationship (although I admit that this is theoretical for me as I have no experience). A woman's standards would generally have a lot to do with the man's "expression of appreciation", while the man wants more of an "expression of understanding". I also found her statement quite dubious for the fact that aspie men would generally have lowered their own standards with respect to attractiveness or similarity of beliefs/whatever, so why is it the woman who is doing him a favor?

I really think this "Ric" fellow should only speak for himself rather than on behalf of all people with Asperger's syndrome. His descriptions of aspies vis-à-vis love are wrong concerning me and insultingly so. I have been in love before and had no deficit in empathy or reciprocity. In fact, I felt her moods and emotions quite strongly. I also never hesitated to show affection for her or a willingness to take care of her and help her out. On the other hand, she, the NT, did not reciprocate; things eventually went downhill.

Right-what these two people said could apply to some other people to some extent some of the time. Not an absolute/universal that can be assumed to be occurring with any other two humans (AS or NT, male or female). So it should be qualified with disclaimer (not taken as an exemplar that fits for all persons of a demographic)-that responsibility (to keep balanced perspective in mind) belongs both with person putting it out there & with the reading audience.

Well, most descriptions are of this template (of NT female & ASD male)-I still comment, though know that it's not the same (my situation vs. theirs). My only reference for what someone with an ASD is like "for real", in person, as an individual-is myself (thus my perception is skewed & limited).

Anyway-as if this weren't complicated enough, in my relationship I think I'm the one seeking "understanding" & my bf is the one seeking "appreciation". Which isn't to contradict you, because my experience is of two people (me & him), and we may not happen to fit with the majority of how people are, according to group (gender roles, or neurological label) averages.

Of course, with all these analyzed issues, it's beyond me to be able to separate out what is attributable to my gender, my genes, my dx, my life experiences so far, and so on...

The lady in the interview is self-centered. She has a resentment, because her husband doesn't act the way she wants. She wants R to validate her opinion. It is obvious that she thinks people with AS are inferior, that the way she communicates is the only correct way. R validates her point of view. Neither touch on the true meaning of love. Being in love has nothing to do with love. Being in love is all about sex. It goes away after a while. That's when love takes over. It sounds like to me she wants to blame her failed marriage on her husband's AS. She can't accept that he is not going to act normal. That's one reason why the interview means nothing to me. The questions are biased.

The interview also means nothing to me, because it doesn't go along with my experience. I have empathy; I show appreciation; I can identify my feelings and express my feelings. The problem is not in me. I'm not wrong, because I communicate differently. I don't lack love, because I express love differently. People with AS speak a different language than people who are neurotypical.

One final note: Why can't the interview and her husband try harder to communicate? My parents had a terrible marriage, and thankfully, they divorced several years ago. The reason they couldn't get along is they both tried to fix the other person instead of trying understand the other person. My dad thought my mom was "ret*d" because of her autism; my mom thought my neurotypical dad was stupid. Neither was willing to budge. Self-centeredness on the part of one or both partners has nothing to do with AS. There are plenty of self-centered people on and off the autistic sprectrum.

The main problem with writings like these is that someone could do a search for Asperger's syndrome and romantic love and find this and then conclude that an aspie would make a poor partner.

I finally registered only to let people know that this article, if it ever was at that web address, is no longer there. This is a professional, business food blog (mine, actually), and I do not know where the original article is, etc. I took over this domain name several years ago as my business website, and as much as I wish I could help everyone here, I cannot.

If someone, moderator or original poster, could remove or correct the link that would be incredibly helpful to me, and I would appreciate it greatly Responding to the many emails a week I receive about this is very time consuming, but I feel bad not at least answering emails of people who are usually distraught, upset, or looking or answers and information. Not everyone is polite, or accepts that I cannot help them. And I am now getting comments on my food blog, which I have to spend additional time moderating because (obviously) the comments are inappropriate for a business blog.

Thank you all for your time.

People,

Please don't send TiredChef any more e-mails about this broken link. The domain was transferred long ago and the original content is no longer available on the internet to the best of my knowledge. TiredChef never had anything to do with the old article.

Thanks!

i agree. i do that alot. full autie mode when i can't take the stress, it blanks out my emotions, but my AS traits magnify and i don't really talk at all. it's like my brain goes silent and i become a processor of external information. an efficient machine with wondrous mental faculties. and concentration enough to burn a hole through the wall with a stare .

then there's halfway mode where i usually dwell. for all intents and purposes we shall call this default mode.

then there's bubbly insanely social mode that does good at parties and social interactions. not quite at NT level, but damn close. i think it has something do with willfully inducing adrenaline rushes which in turn make my mind more flighty and efficient. you know how much better our brains work under stress.
it's like when you stay up a long time and you're so stressed from the exhaustion of staying up that it actually gives you an odd sense of superfocus, or, in my case, makes me alert and just the tiniest bit hyper, while seemingly about to fall asleep at the same time