Long Distance/Online Relationships, all fantasy, or real

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my long distance girlfriend who was with me from 2006-2007 reunited with me in august of this year, I came back for her, we both had bad relationships and decided to give it another try, everything was well until last night. After we lost contact for 2 years, she ended it with me a few hours ago. Said she just wants to be friends so we don't feel stressed and so she doesn't hurt me if one of us is unable to relocate in 2 years. I know it's more then that. There are other guys in her life and she considers them family, I know she just lost interest in me for one of them (i know exactly who it is). I told her i didn't want to do this but what can I do. She tells me she doesn't know why but she doesn't want to hurt me. No reason? Oh, there is a reason. It's someone else. I asked her why she wanted to be with me again, she doesn't know. She says Long distance relationships are hard, and she doesn't want either of us to get hurt. Well, babe, I am hurt because of this.
We had a slight argument days ago about trusting issues, and we just forgot about it. She thinks I didn't trust her, I did, at times I did control her life and want to know what she was doing. I did go overboard. I tried, I tried my best to make it work again, and it failed. I was willing (still am too) to change my life around just for me and her to be together in real life when she graduates, but I don't know now. She'll probably have someone by then, and have forgotten about me, maybe. Anyways, I told her that i'd always be here and when she wisens up and stops fooling with these other guys to come back to me. I don't know if she will. One of her closest friends treats me like s**t. Threatens to hurt me if I do anything bad to her. (why would I? I knew the girl for 4 years, longer then his ass ever did!). She left me so he wouldn't be hurt, and they're probably gonna get together now. Everything was clear to me, but now, it's unclear again. We had a slight argument days ago about trusting issues, and we just forgot about it. She thinks I didn't trust her, I did, at times I did control her life and want to know what she was doing. I did go overboard. Her friends just assume I'm some creep with no life who sits on the computer all day doing nothing. When I tell her how this bothers me (over-protective friends), she says nothing.

I now know the truth about long distance/meeting somebody online/far away w/e relationships. They DO NOT work. At first, everythings ok, but after a while, you lose trust, your mind wanders, someone loses interest, someone cheats, you end up wasting your life for nothing but a fantasy.

I don't know what will happen between me and her, I want to make it work, but something is holding her back, or US back.

TELL HER THIS! Don't you hate to be naive and stupid. Just let her know you are not a loser and you won't be fooled.



This one just pisses me off, may be you can confront her on this one even BEFORE brining up the other guy, so you can get her undivided attention.

I mean think about it. She doesn't want to hurt YOU. So apparently she cares about you more than herself. So what if you say that you will be much more hurt by a breakup than you will ever be hurt by the potential problems that she describes. Will that change her mind? NO. Why not? Because, apparently, she thinks she knows you much better than you know yourself. Isn't that ridiculous?

Lets put it another way. Even if you don't care that she hurts you, she apparently does. So she cares about you even more than you care about yourself. WOW. And, at the same time, she doesn't care about you as she doesn't give a second thought to dumpling you. So which one is it? Does she care about you more than you do, or less than you do? Ask her THAT question.

I can tell you, I personally dealt with this crap when girls were telling me they didn't want to hurt me, and I never for once got an answer to the above questions. Since it was long in the past I don't remember most of concrete examples, but the one I remember is Charlene, the girl I liked the most for the past 8 years, with Anne being the only exception! Well, I blew it with her because I set a first date with her few days before my prelim exam and I was thinking about physics while with her. She then told me that she thinks we should be friends becaues it seems that *I*, NOT HER, didn't feel comfortable that she wasn't chatty enough. I then told her I didn't ever feel uncomfortable about anything; in fact I only acted uncomfortable because of that physics question in my mind, and I didn't give a s**t if she was quiet or not. But somehow it didn't change her mind, SHE still thought that *I* felt uncomfortable, even if *I* tell her that I didn't care about some possible slight discomfort I didn't even notice.

The other such example was Anita. When I came from Israel I was all drowsy because of jet-lag. And she kept asking me what was wrong. I kept telling her that nothing at all was wrong. The next day her phone was blocked. I tried calling her several times through pay phones. She kept hanging them up every time. Well, finally I wrote her an email of apology where I said that I don't know what I did wrong, but whatever it was, I am trully sorry. Her response was that I "went into pouting scene the last time we called". Now look at it. When she talked to me, she cared about me more than I do -- she was asking me for 15 minutes if I was okay, while I didn't even KNOW anything was wrong, much less did I care. And, on the other hand, she didn't give a second thought to ACTUALLY hurting me by breaking up. So which one is it? Is she caring about me TOO MUCH as to ask about my every sigh if I was okay, or TOO LITTLE as to dump me for no reason? That is exact question you can ask your girl, too.

Just like your girl is telling you that YOU don't really want that relationship (aka YOU will be hurt), in the same way Anita was telling me that it is ME who doesn't want to be with her. About a month ago when she also tried to break up with me over my hanging up a phone on her to make sure the neigbhor doesn't hear so he wont' tell my mom I have a gf, she was telling me that since I don't want my mom to know about her *I* must be unhappy so she doesn't want ME to be in a relationship that makes ME unhappy. I been telling her I KNOW for a FACT I am happy, but she was ignoring that. And also, when I was living the messages in her answering mashine, she told me "I listened to all your messages and no single one of them says 'Anita, please don't break up with me' therefore I am breaking up with you". So, again, she implies that *I* want her to break up with me since I didn't tell her not to, and it doesn't matter how many times I tell her that is not the case.

Finally, another girl, the most important of them all: Anne. She rejected me because "my mom seemed like she sheltered me and it seems like my ex girlfriend did the same" so if *I* were to "expect it from someone in a relatioship", then *she* "won't be able to handle it". Now yes my mom shelters me, but I HATE my mom for that. And, yes the ex she referred to (Sarah) also sheltered me, but that was the main reason I ended our relationship by stopping contacting her. So *I* know I don't need sheltering, but Anne thinks she knows better: she thinks I DO need sheltering I just don't realize it. And also after she rejected me we were still meeting as friends, and I acted really upset. So one of the ways I acted upset is that when we were planned to come over to her appartment to watch a movie I deliberately turned in the opposite direction to see if she would remind me to go see a movie. She didn't. She later said she thought *I* don't want to come over. What? I was OBSESSED about comming and I was obsessing over it for the next few days! Yet she thought *I* didn't want to!

Do you see a common theme here? A girl thinks that SHE knows what the guy wants much better than the guy knows himself! So, the girl breaks up with a guy in order to DO THE GUY A FAVOR, and it doesn't matter how many times the guy says it doesn't do him any favor. SHE knows the best. The same applies to your girl, too!

And this doesn't just apply to dating. It also applies to finding a professor. Back in Spring 2006 I was almost expelled due to my bad history at school. That bad history has nothing to do with my being a bad physicist but more to do with my not knowing the rules of the game -- I was unaware graduate school is about research as opposed to taking courses. Anyway, as a result of bad history, no one wanted to be my advisor. I was in a situation that I had to find an advisor by June 1, 2006 in order not to be expelled. I DID, but that was PURE LUCK.

I lost a lot of potential advisors in the following way: they would first pretend that they ARE interested in working with me, and ask me about my interest. Welll, I figured that since they are so much interested in working with me, they are telling me that I am GUARANTEED to get a house, and I just have to choose between a hosue and golden palace. So, OF COURSE I choose golden palace. Thus, in response to their inquiry about my intersts I would go on and on how I am interested in this or that obscure topic that no one works on. Then they would refuse to be my advisor since my interest doesn't match theirs. I would then run after then and tell them that actually I don't INSIST on working in that abscure area of physics. As long as I get ANY topic it is just fine. But they will say that they want ME to get the most out of research, so FOR MY OWN GOOD they hope I find someone who does my obscure area of interest. So, on the one hand, they care aobut MY GOOD more than I care about my own good since I, honestly, don't care which area of research I do, as long as I do something. Ont he other hand, they don't care at all that I would be expelled if I don't get advisor. So which one is it? Do they care too much or too little?

Look at the parallel themes here:

1) Your girl cares about hurting YOU even though you don't
2) Charlene cared about MY feeling uncomfortable at our first date even though I didn't (I only cared about physics exam)
3) Anita cared about my voice sounding tired even though I didn't
4) Anne thought I didn't want to be in a relatinship with her because I need sheltering, even though I know that I don't
5) Professors care about my doing JUST THE RIGHT topic for me, even though I don't

And, AT THE SAME TIME

1) The girl DOES NOT care about the way she hurts you by dumping you
2) Charlene did NOT care how much she hurt me by my losing her
3) Anita did NOT care about blocking my phone off in such a rude way
4) Anne doens't care that she ruined all of my years starting from I seen her in 2005 till now when I was obsessed over not having her
5) The professors did NOT care that I might get EXPELLED if I don't get an advisor

So do these ppl care too much or too little? Which one is it???



Thats a good point to confront her too. She just admitted that the reason she broke up has to do with YOUR behavior (whether her accusation is right or not). So how come she been telling you that it has nothing to do with anything you did wrong, and she just doesn't want to hurt you? In other words, she just contradicted herself, which proves she is lying.



You have just shown her that you are a loser. After she lied to you and treated you like s**t, you still have your best intentions towards her. In other words, you just have proven her you don't see through anything that she did.

If I were in your place, yes I would still hope that she gets back with me, but for an entirely different reason: so that *I* can dump her! I had that day dream about Anne, the girl who dumped me in 2005 and whom I never got over, despite having 3 other girls after that, and quite honestly, I would dump ALL other girls just to be with her. Despite that, if in some imaginary world I DID get back with her, I would have done exactly what I am about to recommend you to do. Here it is:

Take a calendar, write down the date and time when you started a (new) relationship. Count exactly 57 days from that date, and mark that exact time on that other day, which is 57 days later. Make sure relationship goes very well, ESPECIALLY when it comes closer to that great day. Once that day comes, take an alarm clock, and put it on the exact time when you officially started a relationship. Once the alarm clock rings, IMMEDIATELY stop whatever you are doing, RUN AWAY as fast as possible without telling why or where, and NEVER see her again (make sure you are physically in the same location as her when the clock rings, and, preferably, make sure a lot of her friends are there, too; if it is some fancy restaurant it makes it even better). Then, to boost it up, find some yahoo groups she attends, and make some posts with bible verses such as the following (THE UNDERLINED PARTS ARE THE ONES RELEVENT TO YOUR SITUATION)


and

If she responds to that post, DO NOT RESPOND BACK. In fact, have NO CONTACT WITH HER WHAT SO EVER, just let her watch you posting these verses and be all excited about them, while pretending it has nothing to do with her!

Now, unfortunately I don't have any hope of finding her, let alone starting a relationship, so unfortunately the above is just a day dream that would never happen. BUt you got a point. If YOU succeed getting the girl back, I strongly suggest doing some variation of the above, and this would totally kill your image of a loser as you were trying to get her back. But, based on my experience, you proably would NOT get her back, which is why your desperate attempts to only make you look more and more like a loser and, if you won't get her back, you will NOT get a chance to fix it throught the above scenario.

But anyway, if something of this sort does work out, I recommend using number 57 in your scheme, it will really make you feel proud of yourself. That number comes from a very prestigious high school in Moscow, Russia. In Moscow schools don't have names, but are rather numbered. And since moscow is a big city, there are several hundrid schools, which is why that school has number 57. Anyway, that high school was for kids gifted in mathematics. It had very difficult selection process, only 10% of applicants could get in. They also have a mathematical club for kids from other schools, where they train them to solve difficult math problems of olimpiad type. Then at the end of a year they have their own mini-alimpiad, and use its resultrs to select people to become students of that school for the next year.

Anyway, that school has a tradition of employing number 57 in the various difficult math problems it gives students to solve. So if you willl use 57 days, instead of any other number of days in your scheme, you will totally follow that tradition of that school and feel proud of yourself.

Every person that passes through your life, is there for a reason. Some people stay longer tn others, but each interaction brings with it a lesson. If you really want to move forward, then figure out what can be learned by the experience you just had. Try not to get caught up in the drama and the he said/she said. Look at it from a new angle and try to see another perspective. If you're going to be with someone, it shouldn't be one half of the party giving up everything for the other person. There has to be a balance. Without balance, you burnout. But just because an ending isn't want you thought it would be, doesn't mean it wasn't valuable.

I also see some strong signs that you were exhibiting some controlling tendencies and I can tell you right now, that sends women for the hills. You can't feel comfortable with someone who tries to control you. It's not healthy for either of you.

I can empathize. I got shot down for the same reasons about a year ago, and I never even got an explanation. I was hoping that I could stay friends with this person, but I was blocked from IM for no reason, and she ignored my e-mails. The only way I got an explanation was because I gave a trusted friend her e-mail address and requested he talk to her. But when she replied to that, she was very angry, and instead of treating me like a concerned friend, she treated me as if I was some crazed stalker-type. I apologized for not taking the best plan of action, but she never even accepted my apology.

I think "long distance relationship" is an oxymoron. When you have a serious relationship with someone, they should be a major part of your life. Not doable at all at a long distance.

You can date at long distance for sure; which just means making plans & getting together for good times. However, anything more, & you'd probably have to plan living closer together at some point in the near future. If you stay in dating mode for too long, interest WILL wane.

I disagree.

I have never quite understood why living close to someone makes them more a part of your life than living away. My mother and I get along a thousand times better now that I live three states away from her; we talk more, we agree on more, we just generally get along better. I'm not a touchy person at all; distance isn't a bad thing to me. Furthermore, there are times when you learn more about someone through distance than you would up close.

If someone cheats on you because there's distance, they're not worth your time. If they can't stay true to you now, who's to say they'd stay true when closer? People get bored in relationships all the time, close and far.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Well said, RS.


M.

^ I agree too.

I think it all comes down to different strokes for different folks. It depends on how well you can communicate over distance and what your/their needs are. If you're someone who likes a lot of space it may work better for you. If you're someone who craves more regular affection and in person interaction than long distance may not be for you. Or maybe it's a combo of the two and it starts off long distance and then you live closer together or move in with each other. There's no one answer that fits everyone.

This debate is getting old...

Having noted that three people are in agreement with RainSong, I'll have to chime in and say that I agree with deadeyexx.

In RainSong's example: a relationship with your mother is very different from a romantic relationship.

What CelticGoddess said about some people needing a lot of space is true, but a long-distance romantic relationship involves the fact that sometimes, when you have a need to be with the other person in the relationship, the other person is not accessible to quench that need. They don't respond right away, they can't come to you as often as you want them to, etc.. Online communication can help some, but it can never completely replace face time. And once you get a feeling that the relationship is not meeting your needs, then either that insufficiency must be dealt with, or the relationship is going to die. I'm not saying that short-distance relationships don't have similar problems, because they definitely do, but long distance adds one more complicating factor to the equation. That's why it doesn't make sense to ask "If they can't stay true to you in a long-distance relationship, who's to say they'd stay true when closer?" It's harder to ensure your needs from that person are met when the person is farther away.

She wants to be friends with me for 2 years so nothing happens between us. So neither of us get hurt. She still won't tell me how she could ever hurt me. I don't know what to do.

This is how I see it. You can maintain a relationship from a distance, but you really can't build one. Building a relationship requires shared experiences. As for your example, most people are like that with their mother. They've shared a lifetime of shared experiences with thier mothers & are dying for a break. Even many years apart won't leave someone feeling the desire for a new mother.

However, with a person you haven't shared many experiences with, living far apart can drift you back to square one pretty quickly. It may not be long until one person (or both) has built a life for themselves in their own location strong enough to override the ties between them & their significant other. Unless you refuse to interact with your surroundings & become absorbed into them, this will likely happen.

If she doesn't tell you, insist that she does. If she tells you something round-about that is not convincing, tell her exactly why it is not convincing. Try to refute everything she says as long as it is refutable. In this case there are two possible outcomes. Either she will find something that you can't refute, and then you will be satisfied and won't be agonizing just what went through her mind. Or else you will win the argument and then who knows may be she will want to be with you.

Think of it this way. If you are confused by her logic, it means you can refute it more easilly, so it is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. If you are telling US you are confused instead of telling HER this, she won't ever know that you are confused, so she wouldn't ever know you have counter-arguments to what she said. Thus, with all of the potential YOU have to win, she would still think SHE won the argument, simply because you never bothered to tell her exactly where you disagree with her!

Now, I know that in reality there was no single case when someone "convinced" the other person to be with them by winning the argument. But the thing is that NO ONE EVER TRIED TO. I read multiple accounts of guys complaining about girls rejecting them, and NO SINGLE ONE OF THEM described a guy trying to "refute" the logic of a girl. So this makes me think that if only I can CONVINCE one of these guys to actually argue with a girl may be I will see something that never happened before: a girl being pushed to the corner and agreeing to be with the guy.

I can't emphasize tihs enough. She already rejected you. The "friendship" offer doesn't count (see discussion below) so whether or not you "lose" the "friendship" it won't make a bit of a difference as long as you are not "in a relatinship". You are already not in a relatinship. So you have absolutely nothing to lose . So since you have nothing to lose, why not try to argue with her to try to win her back? Even if the chance is very small, it is still a chance. So do it. At least, if you fail, you can always say that at least you tried your best.



Don't ever agree on friendship. The "lets just be friends" (which is abreviated as LJBF) is a standard rejection line, so by agreeing with it you basically agreeing to NEVER date her. You also show yourself to be naive since you act as if you don't know what LJBF really means.

Let me tell you few things:

1) How come women sometimes skip the word "just" in the above sentence and STILL everyone understands what they mean? Because everyone knows that "friendship" and "relatioship" don't go together

2) How come they say that unless relationship happens within a certain time frame after you meet a girl, it won't happen at all? Answer: if you know each other very well, you are either in "friends" ladder or in "relatinships" ladder, and the two are incompatible .

3) How come all dating advice tell you that if you are LJBF-ed (LJBF= lets just be friends) you will have better chance to get together with her if you end contact? Again, because friendships are incompatible with relationsihps.

4) How come nice guys finish last? Answer: because "nice" is what friends do, and friendship is incompatible with relatinships .

5) Whem a woman cries on your shoulder it means she is NOT interested in you romantically. Why not? Because she obviously IS interested in you as a friend, and friendship is incompatible with relatinships .

Now why is friendship incompatible with a relatiship? Well because girls want someone macho for a boyfriend. Being friends, as it involves a lot of emotional support, is not macho.

Its not that women LIKE someone macho. On the contrary, they would cry on the shoulders of their FRIENDS, not boyfriends, and when they do cry they typically complain on how horrible boyfriends are. So, apparently, they like nice guys, just like you and I wuold think they do. But the thing is that "boyfriend" is not about whom they like or even whom they would spend time with. It is about a title! Thats why Anne, a girl who rejected me, was still spending all day long with me, was cooking for me, inviting me to watch movies, etc. Thats because she liked me. But she still didn't want to give me a title of a boyfriend, simply because I was not confident.

She herself had said when I was upset about not being her boyfriend, "how will our relatioship be any different if we were in a relationship?" And she is right. Since I don't believe in sex before marriage, it means there would be NO difference. Now if there is no difference, I can ask her the same question: why can't she just call me bf to make me feel better, there is no difference anyway? The answer is because it is VERY CRUCIAL for her to make a point as to who is macho and who isn't. In fact it is SO CRUCIAL, that she would INSIST on not calling me a boyfriend till she is blue in the face, even though, as she admitted herself, our relationship wouldn't have been any different if she did!

Now, don't you find it offensive if someone insist on not giving you a certain title just to MAKE A POINT you are not what the title describes FOR THE SAKE OF MAKING A POINT, even though it has no impact on your relationship what-so-ever? Well, that seems like this girl you are describing is doing. You are far away, right? So there is no sex, whether you are boyfriend or jsut a friend. Also, the amount of contact is the same: she never said she wants you to contact her less. So what is the difference? Only the title. Now don't you find it offensive how she MAKES A POINT not to give you a title? I would. And if she is putting you down that much, don't you want end contact with her so that you won't feel so put down?

The way to not let that happen is AVOID any contact with her. Yes you will still remember her, yes it might take a long time for her to fade away. But at least you are not telling her that she is right. By having ANY KIND of contact with her OTHER THAN trying to refute her, you are basically telling her that you already agreed with her stance on friendship issue which is why you can talk about other things. Now how would it feel like if someone says "by the way you are a loser" and then went on to talk about weather. Would you REALLY want to talk to them about weather? No. Why not? Because by ALLOWING them to change a subject from the "loser" topic you implicitly agree that the last word on the "loser" topic is right, i.e. you agree to call yourself a loser! In order to avoid doing that you have only two options: ARGUE that you are not a loser, OR end the contact. I say the same about friendship thing. You have two options:

1) ARGUE you are relationship material and NOT friendship

2) End the contact

I guess all i can do is let her go.......she doesn't want to come see me, and it's unclear if she wants me to go see her.

Why can't you try to refute her FIRST. Like I said, you have nothing to lose. So why not ask her the same thing you asked us: Ask her the following:

--- In what exact way does she think she will hurt you?

--- If you tell her she is not hurting you, why wouldn't she believe you? Why is she assuming she knows you better than you know yourself?

--- Since she obviously DOES hurt you by dumping you, why does she do it, since, presumably, she doesn't want to hurt you?

Since you have nothing to lose, why not send her email with these questions? You don't have to see her face while doing it, just type it up on a keyboard and press "send" bottom, it is very simple, why not do it?