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biostructure
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19 Dec 2009, 3:39 am

I found this on OKCupid:

Quote:
It is more that interest = needy.


Take politics at work. The sycophant kisses the managers ass, but usually treats equals or people lower on the totem pole with disdain.

If you treat a woman too nicely, you come off as needy, and the woman will reject you because she can do better. Since the role of pursuer usually falls to men, and women play the role of accepting or rejecting candidates, women will tend to try for the best "deal". They will go for men that don't come off as desperate or needy based on how much attention they are given by that man. More desirable men have a much greater pool of women to choose from, so they would not give any one woman that much attention. So women desire men who ignore or dismiss them, basically this is the theory behind backhand complements, and "negs" where you give a woman just enough attention to keep her around, but make her have to earn your affection. The whole, make her chase you, because if you chase her she will just run away theory.


I see how this makes sense, I just don't do it. I want a woman who is intelligent enough to realize that this biological / social game is going on, and who recognizes it and makes a conscious effort to look for the person who gives them attention and appreciates them.


I think this guy has made some very good observations. And the last part (that I have bolded and italicized for emphasis) I can totally agree with. Except maybe for the last part, about giving attention and appreciating, as I don't want to be in a relationship where wither person feels obligated to give the other lots of attention. I would replace that with "a conscious effort to find someone who she can get along with, and just play with, without conflict and drama".

And, I'd expect that aspie girls are more likely to be the ones who see through that social game and choose not to play it.



19 Dec 2009, 5:14 am

I don't find anything wrong with nice men. In fact I prefer nice men. I didn't reject my husband when I met him. But I didn't like it when he wanted to buy everything for me because it felt like I was taking advantage of him. I wouldn't let him buy things for me of course. I don't mind them getting things for me like buying for my food or admission fees, etc. but all the time, I wouldn't like it. I would just pay my fare and tell them I want to do that. Sure my husband came off as desperate but I still accepted him. He was so nice and accepting and understood me and that was all I cared about. It would have been dumb of me to leave him. My husband told me I'm very smart for that reason and lot of women are dumb for ejecting nice men. Their loss.

I'm glad I can see past this stuff and see the person. Now it doesn't matter if he buys anything for me because we share the same bank account.



oppositedirection
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19 Dec 2009, 9:07 am

A couple of times I've felt positive vibes from women initially that seemingly fade when I desire to spend more time with them. I've suspected this stems from my autism, that my low social skills affectively conceal my attraction to her which most normal men would probably reveal during standard conversation. An advantage of low eye contact, demure body language, limited talking. Hence, she does take a mild interest in a way she would not with most men. However, simply by trying to spend more time with her usually gives her the impression that actually I am attracted to her and hence she looses interest.

All previous relationships have come from long term friends. Any attraction to her I concealed and instead focused upon close friendship, hence once again she took an interest because I expressed no interest in her.

It's not about not being nice to a woman, its about women finding men being unattracted to her playing at least some role in the cocktail required for attraction. By itself, it not enough, and neither is it required but it is a factor. Consider the matter evolutionarily. Since men usually have greater strength, if any man wants a woman then he can over power her and hence impregnation follows. Therefore, a woman being attracted to a man is not usually required for impregnation. However, if a man is not attracted to a women then impregnation does not follow unless the woman can convince him otherwise. Therefore, to increase impregnation only requires the woman to be attracted to the man in situations when the man is not attracted to the woman. Of course, things like the development of families and communities are also evolutionary advantageous, hence far more goes into attraction of either sex than simply requirements of impregnations.


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CerebralDreamer
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19 Dec 2009, 10:10 am

It's been my perception that we have difficulty expressing our feelings in the subtle way that happen naturally for everyone else. There are a lot of behaviors which become compulsive for people in certain emotional states, and those tend to be the signs people give off. For us, it's a bit like sitting behind a veil all the time.

Since we don't toss out those indicators voluntarily, we can always make it deliberate. This is especially effective for a shy man. He's not intimidating, so women open up to him quicker. As long as he can express his attraction while maintaining his shyness, he's got one hell of an advantage when it comes to certain types of women.

It's a bit like that King of the Hill episode where Diabetes puts one of them in a wheelchair. "Women don't find men in wheelchairs intimidating. Suckers..." The same can be said of the shy man who learns all the social cues.



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20 Dec 2009, 6:47 am

On the contrary, many of the relationships I've seen started with the man showing very overt interest, probably more than I would be comfortable showing. A subtle difference may be that the interest was not of a particularly friendly or even ass-kissing nature and could even be construed as sexual harassment by some people. In fact this is a large part of why I am not so overt (e.g. making suggestive remarks, compliments of a sexual nature, putting my arm around their shoulder) because I feel as if I cannot tell the difference between this and sexual harassment, and the latter may put my social life and possibly also my career plans in a bad situation.



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20 Dec 2009, 10:56 pm

People always want something that is just out of reach...it's the thrill of the chase. They also take things for granted they have an abundance of, or can get easily. Same thing happens in the dating game.

For example:

A guy is born into a rich family, and has always had everything handed to him. He is used to getting everything he wants, and in turn, takes all of these luxuries for granted. Now take all of his money, and other things away from him, and then he starts to get nervous, and is forced to work hard to keep these things. He also starts to appreciate these things once they are gone.



AspiRob
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21 Dec 2009, 12:22 am

Hector wrote:
I feel as if I cannot tell the difference between this and sexual harassment.


I have the same problem. I am not really in touch with what is "acceptable behaviour" with women at what stage. NT's seem to have such an intuative grasp of this. As well, I am not able to tell if a woman likes just as a freind or if she wants something more.


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Salonfilosoof
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21 Dec 2009, 5:34 am

AspiRob wrote:
Hector wrote:
I feel as if I cannot tell the difference between this and sexual harassment.


I have the same problem. I am not really in touch with what is "acceptable behaviour" with women at what stage. NT's seem to have such an intuative grasp of this. As well, I am not able to tell if a woman likes just as a freind or if she wants something more.


I used to be like that when I was a teenager. Practice a lot on your social skills around women and in time they will improve.... You just can't give up after a dozen failures.....