something more than a friendship

Post Reply New Topic

Hi

I am having a real problem right now and I need some solid advice.

About a month ago, I met a girl through a web site dedicated to the mentally ill in regards to dating/friendships/relationships. We met in a chat room there and have exchanged phone numbers. We talk almost every night and have become good friends.

One night we were talking about how lonely I was and how I have such trouble with social anxiety and dating. She said how nice I was and other compliments and even said she would date me! The thing is, she lives in Ohio. But when she said that, a flood of emotions came over me. Here is a girl who is interested in me as a friend, and I thought here is a real possibility. No one has ever said that to me and it made me feel so good. I have finally made a genuine female friend. Now, I think of her constantly and have lavish fantasies of us being together. I have become infatuated with her and I can’t help it.

So this girl has some mental issues: bipolar, major depression, anorexia, and paranoid personality disorder. The latter involves a person being suspicious of others for no real reason and has issues with trust and intimacy among other things. If you have never heard of it, as I did, research it. People with PPD have a hard time with compliments and can seem cold sometimes. That night, when she told me she would date her, I said the same in return and she seemed to have shrugged it off. Sometimes when I give her compliments she says a soft “thank you” or says nothing. I just don’t understand it. We seem like a good match. We have talked about the possibility of meeting someday, but that is up in the air right now.

A while ago, she had a friend that committed suicide and she called me about it in tears. I said how sorry I was and tried to support her the best I could over the phone. I wish I could have done more. We have talked about my history with death/suicide and my mental illness. I like to think this ordeal has brought us closer.

She had a previous relationship where her boyfriend became abusive and tried to hit her. Thankfully, she ended it quickly. So I don’t blame her if she has trouble trusting men and getting close.

While on the phone, she does most of the talking and I have a hard time sometimes saying what I want to say. There is so much I want to tell her and just can’t say it. One night, I was feeling really low and called her. I said how hopeless I felt, how tired I was of feeling like this, and so on. She said virtually nothing about it, except that she was sorry to hear that. I poured my feelings out and she was rather cold and distant. But later that night we talked again about it and she seemed more interested then, and I felt a little better. We say to each other how we can call each other anytime, day or night, and such. We try to support each other.

Tonight, when I talked to her she was leaving work and spent most of the time talking to other people and her parents on the way home. She got home and said she was tired and was it ok if she said goodnight. I didn’t even get a chance to say much at all. I feel hurt, angry, and confused. I felt she was rude and not interested in what I had to say.

So here is the bottom line. I talked to my therapist about this ordeal and she said I should tell my friend how I feel. I have to tell her in a way that won’t make her uncomfortable and push her away. I have to be honest about how I feel and that honesty can strengthen a friendship greatly. There has to be open communication and not to suppress feelings from each other. How do I go about doing this? How do I tell her how I feel and not make our friendship awkward or even destroy it? We have been friends for little over a month; is it too soon to tell her? If she says no, we can’t be in a relationship, am I prepared for it? If she has feelings for me, I can take it from there! I just don’t know what to do now, and I can’t hole up these feelings for much longer. It is causing me too much stress and anxiety, and like I said, she is constantly on my mind. I have asked for her email address, but she is delaying giving it to me saying that her current email isn’t working properly and she will make a new account. Email would be so helpful as I can say what I need to say and not be interrupted or rushed or cut off. She has yet to do this.

I am so lost right now I can’t stand it. I know I need to tell her , but how? I value our friendship and would not want to compromise that. I really need good friends right now. I would appreciate any thoughts and advice on this matter.

First, it seems like the behavior you're describing as troubling to you are all consistent with her diagnosis. Her difficulty accepting a compliment; her lack of reaction to your willingness to date her; her rudeness in not making time for you; stalling about giving you an email address (lack of trust?)....they match the symptoms you describe. So, I'm a bit confused as to why you don't understand her behavior.

I'm also a bit concerned that you have expectations of her that are inconsistent with her diagnosis. I know it's exciting to have someone interested in you, particularly if you haven't had that type of interest before. But I don't think it's reasonable to expect to have a "normal" relationship with this girl - the kind with mutual affection, trust, compromise, a priority on meeting each other's needs, etc. Hon, she doesn't seem capable of that kind of behavior - at least not at this point in her life.

So I think you have to ask yourself - before you allow your infatuation to get the best of you - is whether you want to have the type of relationship that someone with her issues is capable of having. I suggest talking about it in detail with your therapist, so you can understand how your expectations of a relationship match up with her abilties. You really need to have your eyes wide open before you decide to move forward.

If you do decide to move forward, you will have to mention how she hurt your feelings. Will it make her bolt? I don't know. If you bring it up gently and with kindness, you have a better chance that she won't. But that kind of goes back to the bigger questions: do you want to be in a relationship where you're not allowed to express your feelings or concerns, where you shouldn't expect that your needs are equally important to hers, where you're expected to continually sacrifice your own happiness for your partner's? Getting involved with someone with this girl's issues is a lot to handle - you need to realistically assess what you're willing and able to handle. Good luck.

I am astonished your therapist is suggesting you pursue this relationship on any level.
This is a RUN FOR THE HILLS type of scenario and there will be nothing in it for you but frustration and pain. She has way too many "issues." Save yourself and friend zone her.

The problem is that for someone that has never even had a woman interested in him before, this could turn out to be his lucky break. I know, I've been there. My first girlfriend didn't last that long (to be completely fair, we both had our share of issues), but as short as that relationship was, it helped me feel as though i actually had a purpose for the first time in many years, and even though the relationship is over, I feel as though my life has changed for the better. Did the breakup hurt? Of course it did. I was moping on here for a long time about it (longer than the relationship itself lasted). But sometimes all someone needs is a little proof-of-concept. After all, if I pulled off a relationship once, that means it's theoretically possible to pull off another one, right?

What you are describing Toad is desperation and any reasonable woman isn't attracted to that.

Yes. It is desperation. And I know firsthand now that after one has finally had that first success, such feelings diminish. The effect isn't immediate, but it certainly has happened in my case. It's far easier to have more confidence when there is concrete evidence of success backing that up, and nearly impossible to "bluff" such confidence, especially without experience in what true confidence is supposed to be like.

Toad, I think there are some pretty serious, fundamental differences between your experience (with your gf) and the OP's current situation: your gf wasn't diagnosed with any significant mental illnesses, and the OP's potential gf has been - and that makes a world of difference.

I understand your perspective - that even a little success at dating can boost a person's confidence - and I totally agree with you. However, there's an important skill that needs to be developed when it comes to dating as well: knowing when to walk away.

Aspies can imprint on their first sexual and/or significant relationship experience....meaning that first experience or relationship can set up a lifetime of expectations about what sex, love and relationships should be. So while the thought of having that first experience can be absolutely intoxicating, it's really important to assess your potential partner as realistically as possible before you take the leap.

The OP knows that his potential gf has been diagnosed with some mental illnesses that will limit her ability to meet his needs as a bf. And he knows that now - before he's become seriously involved with her. And her inability to meet his needs is already troubling him. So he's got to decide what he's going to do with that knowledge: is he willing to accept what she's capable of providing, and is that acceptance going to lead to his happiness?

My interpretation of his post is that because this is the first time the OP has been the recipient of romantic interest, the stakes seem very high to him - as though this young lady may be his only chance at romance. I get the sense that he's willing to do anything to make a relationship with her work, because even though he has problems with her behavior, he still seems almost desperate to move forward with the relationship. People who haven't had a lot of opportunities or success in romance can easily surrender to the mindset that any relationship is preferable to no relationship. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Particularly when a relationship is an Aspie's first experience (or an NT's, for that matter), a bad relationship can do a lifetime of damage. In general, I think Aspies can be much more vulnerable to the influence of a psychologically unhealthy partner than most NTs, because Aspies tend to accept that whatever the NT does in the relationship is "normal." Given that, a messed-up NT can do enormous damage to an Aspie before the Aspie realizes that damage is being done. And unfortunately, by that point, imprinting has occurred. Even if the Aspie realizes that damage has been done, he/she has to be willing to work hard - with the right professional help - in order to repair the damage....and that can take years. And in the interim, there are probably not going to be a lot of successful relationships, because the abused has become the abuser....all the dysfunctional aspects of the initial relationship are carried through to future relationships, just like kids who are abused grow up to be abusive parents. It's a mess, and a waste.

I don't know if PPD is something that can be resolved with therapy and medical treatment (like BPD), if it's something that can only be treated medically (like chemically-based depression), or if it's something that can't be treated successfully (like attachment disorder). This young lady's issues are serious, and the OP has got to decide - dispassionately - if he's going to sublimate his own needs in order to have a relationship with this young lady....or if he's going to walk away.

Hi lone eagle25,
I am in a very similar situation in some ways. I am responding , not because I am bored, but because what you said stuck fire in me. I have strong feelings regarding this matter. Listen, you can't choose who you are in many ways, or who you love, can you? Love has no logic and , as far as I know , you can't talk yourself out of it. You can choose not to express your feelings of love. You can choose to 'opt out' on love, life, or anything you wish.
As far as her 'worthiness' to be loved ( if you will ) considering her diagnosis... She has the right to a life ( I am going to assume that, based on her existence ) A full life is one that includes love , I think . The same goes for you , Lone Eagle . Okay, it may not be "perfect" like a Stepford wife, or like Hitler's ultimate plan for Germany ... But, I think this is the great thing about love in this world... One person may be considered ugly and another beautiful . One person may be considered charasmatic and another person an outcast, in the eyes of the world. One may be rich and "well bred", another poor and uneducated . So, here's the really cool part ... both have an equal chance of finding love. Both are equally entitled to love. Love, is the one thing money, looks, youth, popularity, fame, education, perfection etc... can not buy ! Real love would never seek such things. Love is a free agent. Amen!
I say you have two choices :
1: You can live your life, or
2: you can not live your life

p.s. sooner than later, your gut will thank you.

peace out

Well, I have to say you bring up some very important and valid points. I didn't consider everything you have mentioned and I am glad you took the time to point them out. That being said, I should clarify a few things.

First of all, I have researched her personality disorder and her other problems and i have a good understanding of how they apply in real life. I guess I do understand her behavior and her condition, but maybe I refuse to accept it. Talking to her most of the time she comes across as somewhat normal, and other times I can clearly see her symptoms of her diagnosis. She is a very sweet and caring girl most of the time and all seems well. I keep telling myself to think hard about her issues, but my emotions are getting the best of me.

I don't actually expect to have a normal relationship where each partner gives and takes somewhat equally. I realize the obstacles and boundaries involved here. I get the impression that she is trying to help herself and work for some normality. She constantly tells me to call her anytime with any problem I have and so on. So there is an interest in a good friendship at least. Romance is another story. She had two previous relationships that ended badly, but luckily she didn't get too hurt in the process. She has no if any interest in these prior men, one of which is trying to get back together. Thankfully, she won't be with that guy ever again. So, I can see if she is suspicious of men in any way and might have a hard time with intimacy.

Personally, I think the biggest factor here is the distance between us as we live 3 states apart. I realize that a long distance relationship is a whole lot harder than a local one and both people have to willingly commit to it. I just don't know how much she is willing to work for it. We have mentioned the possibility of meeting one day, and I plan to ask her again if she is still interested in that. Once again, my emotions are trying to control me, and I would not be surprised if I come across as desperate.

The bottom line is that I have to tell her about my feelings as I can not keep them to myself anymore. It just isn't healthy for me. So I plan to talk to her about this (I finally got her email) soon. I have to try, and if she says she isn't interested, then so be it. I will move on. I am willing to give this potential relationship a shot. My therapist agrees with me.

Thanks again for your imput

OP, you have to do what you have to do. But your statement about refusing to accept her behavior and condition is very troubling to me. She is who she is - she's been honest with you about her diagnosis. You have to be honest with yourself about what that means to you in the context of a romantic relationship with her. Don't expect her to be someone she's incapable of being. If you do that, I promise you'll wind up resenting each other.

If you want to pursue a relationship with this girl, you need to accept that you will experience the kind of disappointments you described in your post over the course of the relationship. You need to be very clear about the behavior she can control and what is beyond her control - and how much work she's willing to do to become a better partner for you. Whether the relationship will work for you in the long run is anybody's guess, but whatever happens, you can't blame and resent her later for being who she is. You know about her conditions, and that's what you're signing up for. Be fair to both of you, and go into this relationship with your eyes wide open, okay?

Ok, I should have been more honest and clear with my statement. When I said I maybe refuse to accept her condition, I wasn't saying I actually did not accept it. That was just a possibility. The truth is, I do accept her for what she is, it just took a while to get to that point. I cannot and will not change her personality and her other issues. People have to change by themselves; all we can do is to help them.

I do understand the pitfalls of this possible relationship. This will not be easy for both of us. We both have things that will be obstacles and nobody knows how it will work out. But as far as I can tell, she is dealing with her issues and so am I. You see I have to get to that point yet where she does want to pursue something more than a friendship. One step at a time. I am aware what I am getting myself into, the problems we may have, and also the advantages that may come out of it. I am willing to try the best that I can because I care about her too much. She has been a good friend to me. If she says no, she isn't interested or we get serious and things fall apart, then so be it. We learn and we move on. It's not the end of the world.

I'm sort of in the same boat, except I barely know the girl I'm dealing with. When you say:

I understand, except I hate that I'm doing all of the talking. And I know PPD fairly well. I exhibit some of the signs, and I think the girl I currently like suffers from it. I felt the same way over a year ago when I was dealing with another girl.