"There's this one girl..."

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There have been a lot of threads on here recently about guys having a crush on a woman that doesn't feel the same way, is already in a relationship, or for some other reason is unattainable.

From direct experience...obsessing over one woman effectively negates your chances of meeting a woman just as good as her or likely better. By putting some woman you barely know and have never went out with on a pedestal, you're putting all women you're interested in on a pedestal and having a scarcity mentality. The reality is, beautiful, cool women are all over the place, and they don't like to be obsessed over by some guy they barely know or don't know at all. Look at it from an NT woman's perspective: "This guy doesn't know me, so he's just obsessed with my looks, which makes him needy." Even if you're intention is to get to know her better, she doesn't want to be looked at as the only human being on the planet by a complete stranger, especially a stranger that she's not attracted to.

The reason you see ugly or average guys with attractive women is because those guys got to know the woman, were in her direct social circle, and they didn't act shy or asexual around her. You might be thinking that I'm sending mixed messages by saying that you can't come off to strong, but then telling you to hit on the girl. I'm not saying blatantly flirt with her...but I'm saying treat her like a woman and make her feel feminine.

That's all for now.

What do you mean by "acting asexual"? are you saying people should act sexual?

I mean asexual in the "not liking women" way, not the "not horny" way. Like if you're on a date, you act nervous the whole time, or just talk about things without any tension or joking or romance, then at the end of the date you go for the kiss. That's just one example.

But what I meant as applying to the guys on here is...they like a girl, obsess about her from afar, probably act nervous around her when they see her, or just talk to her like they would anyone else, without making it known that they're interested...then they decide as a last ditch effort to make some John Cusack type of speech.

I understand this part of the concept quite well because I have experience with the flip side of it. To paraphrase:

"This girl doesn't know me, and she's judging me according to her own estimate of my income, which makes her needy." Apparently, her intention is not to get to know me better, but to exit the workforce or leave her parents because they make her do her math homework. How lame is that? I want to be looked at as at least a human being and not just a meal ticket, otherwise she'll remain a stranger that I'm not attracted to.

I have only had one experience in this type of scenario... I worked at a local coffee shop, and this very quiet guy started coming in every day for a coffee. I'm pretty social with most people, but allow them to approach me, which he never did. Every day he came in, and if I asked how his day was, he would barely look up at me, nod, and leave. Suddenly one day, he asked quite out of the blue if he could call me. He had never even inquired as to my name! I told him that I had a boyfriend, and that it would probably be a bit inappropriate for him to call me at home, since he doesn't know me. I told him that if he wanted to stay and chat a bit whenever he comes to get his coffee, that he could get to know me that way. His response? He asked again if he could have my phone number. I had to just say "no" at this point.

I had never engaged in an interaction with this man beyond that of a customer-employee scenario, had never "made eyes" at him, knew nothing about him, and he knew nothing about me, yet he was still able to develop some sort of interest in me. I felt like I had no control over the situation, as though all that while he had already been building something up in his head (likely assumed what I was like, what my interests were, etc), without my knowing. I didn't think the guy was a jerk or anything, and he respectfully avoided interaction with me from then on, but it is still incredibly uncomfortable when I pass him in the street.

The thing that bothered me the most about the entire thing was how objectified I felt. Far more so than when I am cat-called at (which also sucks, and really pisses me off). Because this guy actually wanted to pursue something with me, without knowing anything about me beyond my physical appearance, sound of my voice, and my place of employment. As though the only thing that is attractive/matters about me is the way I look. It didn't make me think that the guy was "needy," as the OP suggested... Instead, it gave me the impression that this person was very shallow. And it made me feel like crap about myself for a good long while.

That person could have been on the spectrum. It just shows how we can come off as when we try and get a date. Because our condition is invisible, people are not going to know just by how we act. Heck, even aspies can misread a man and not even know he is on the spectrum. They might also think he is creepy. But if they knew he had AS, they would look at it different. They might still think it's creepy but not take it personal knowing that man just doesn't understand and he isn't even trying to be that way.

I wonder how an aspie woman would come off as to a man if she also did that?

I'm not sure if it would have made any difference in terms of my feeling objectified, had he had AS and I'd known it... It wasn't how he approached me necessarily, as I could tell he had some social anxiety, as do I, and I can be very empathetic in that regard. It was more the fact that he "liked" me enough to want my phone number, without knowing a single detail about me or ever having even one miniscule conversation with me. Had he ever sat in the cafe and overheard my conversations with other people, or ANYTHING, I could have had at least some reason to believe that his interest was based on the fact that he actually found me to be interesting, and not just physically attractive.

If any of this is directed to my post then it's not the fact that she's gorgeous that makes me attracted to her, it's her personality; she's quiet, softly spoken, very intelligent, down to earth and easy going. She's the first girl I've ever met who has this combination as often gorgeous looking girls don't seem to talk to me much.

And all this stuff about guys getting to up close and personal with these girls; how good is your small talk 'the range'? We're known to not be particularly good at casual conversation; so our/my way of making conversation is to try and empathise i.e. see things from her point of view, but I guess to her or others that might seem a bit too up close and personal, but it's all I've got.

I don't take offence to this and hope others don't take offence to anything I write, but you have to realise for newly diagnosed Aspies it is hard on the dating scene; being attracted to NTs puts you in an awkward situation, if you don't tell them you feel like you're cheating them, if you do tell them they might run a mile, between a rock and a hard place.

All the well wishing in the world isn't gonna change the fact that my brain is wired up wrong.

No offence meant, just think a bit more sympathy would be nice.

You're one of many; it was directed at anyone who's lamenting in these terms.
In case you haven't gone very far in reading through others' threads over the past week or more, there are many guys who are of a very similar mindset, who focus unduly over a very specific lady, even if they don't know the woman so well.

therange and I agree on a number of things, but I usually opt for a softer touch. He's perhaps more pragmatic, I am more optimistic. However, this time around I'm gonna have to fall into his ethos, here.

Venting is okay. But undue wallowing in victimhood deserves very little sympathy.

And although I've already said as much, I'm going to say it again: You are different, not wired up 'wrong.' You're convincing yourself that you are disabled and are beginning to use it as an excuse. It is not an excuse, and you are not disabled. You deserve no special dispensation. You deserve precisely what you arrange for yourself. You will reap what you sow.

This is a good thing: It means that things are in your hands, and that if you set yourself up for success, you receive success. In the big picture, there's no bad luck, there is no 'unfairness,' there are only your actions and their logical results. If you take care to understand which actions will help you, and which hold you back, then you ensure a brighter future.

By subscribing to your perspective of disability, you set yourself up to be disabled.

Last year I was put in a great position where I dated an attractive woman for a short while who served as a practice girlfriend. I was able to be myself around her, and she let me know the mistakes I was making without judging me too harshly. It also helped my small talk ability. More importantly, it demystified pretty women for me. I no longer have them on pedestals (a common mistake, not just one you seem to be making.) They're just people.

I admit, while I did a lot of work to meet her, that a lot of women like her would have left me after the first date when finding out how socially awkward I was, but the point is, I learned quickly and basically minus some awkward posture and quirks have an NTs dating skillset.

Also, getting obsessed with one woman, who you aren't dating, just makes it harder for you to correct your thinking patterns and improve yourself so you can meet another woman like her. There's nothing special about your co-worker. Just because she's gorgeous and seems to be a nice person doesn't mean she's one of a kind. You just have to take pretty women off a pedestal.

The seduction community calls this "oneitis". Basically it is the disease of believing that this one girl is your only shot at true love.

Maybe he was going to get to know you more as you two talk on the phone.

Dating is tricky. I never succeeded in it in the real world. I had to get men from the internet.

I agree with you, and I liked how you rationalized things from a woman's perspective. I honestly believe the whole problem with shy guys and girls comes down to three things: going after the most attractive women based on physical attraction instead of trying to befriend women in general, making the opening move, and once comfort between both parties are established, making the transition between friend to romantic interest.

I'm guilty of all those things, and I realize it now. Quick frankly, searching for love is the LAST thing in the world I need, it is an exercise in futility. I now believe it is more important a.) to not care about women romantically and invest your time in other interests, or b.) just become friends with women, and not care about all this romantic crap. That's my two cents.

Fully agreed with both of you. Putting a chick on a "pedestal" is about the worst thing you can do under any circumstances, and despite the fact that I understand that, I am still capable of doing so.

I'm fortunate in that even if I do get to that point I still focus on building friendships. But it's f**ked up to look back objectively in a situation where this does occur where there's no sort of "heartache" or bad times that result in the situation changing.

I was building this girl up hardcore a few months ago like "this is one of the finest girls I've ever seen in my life, super cool, EVERYTHING in common, etc", she got a man and I dropped it, and now when we hang out it's like "she's still one of the finest girls I've ever seen and pretty cool, but really we have nothing in common, she's probably too young to get me no matter how smart she is (she is that smart, but she's 22 I'm 27) and way too shifty and indirect for me to ever tolerate in a sense beyond just being friends".

Some might call it a defense mechanism, and in a sense that's true, but really looking back I was being pretty ridiculous. If she came to me and wanted to get down now I would accept in a heartbeat (because strange pairings do in fact work out at times), but I wouldn't go into it with any expectations whatsoever.

I am certain that the intention of calling me was to get to know me better, but again, it wasn't the fact that he wanted to interact with me that was the problem... It was the obvious lack of any knowledge of myself that made the desire to interact with me appear to be motivated solely by my appearance.

But I suppose it's the same thing with anyone else. They spark up small talk with you, likely because they find you attractive, but the ulterior motive is so hidden by the simplicity and familiarity with commonplace social banter, that I don't consider it at the time.

And honestly, I have the same problem with anyone in this situation, regardless of their method. If I go to a bar with some friends, for example, and some guy across the room sees me, doesn't know me or any of my friends, cannot overhear conversation and thus, doesn't have any reason beyond finding my physically attractive to approach me, I feel very uncomfortable when he does. I think perhaps I'm just weird.

Sorry to be stuck on this, I've been told I can be quite rigid in my thinking. This is probably the sort of thing people are referring to when they say that

I know I'm being terribly redundant, but I agree with your analysis of this as well. I can't generalize all shy guys and what they like, but strictly speaking from my own experience, I was attracted to very physically attractive/cute women. The thing I neglected to be attracted to in a woman was common interests and shared ideas and beliefs, which is most important of all.

Now I realize that without common interests and shared ideas/beliefs, there is no chance I can be compatible with a girl I've just met. The last girl I was attracted to was 18 or 19, and she was into fast food restaraunts, playing DDR, hanging out with friends, and acting goofy. I was interested in going to museums, learning via the Internet, collecting knives, and eating at nice restaraunts. Although I was physically attracted to her, I realized if I attempted to initiate things, it would never work out realistically.

Yes, I believe it is a defensive mechanism, as you said, and for good reason. It is better to look at strengths and weaknesses of possible setups, as opposed to going in, and learning whether you're compatible or not the hard way.

Quite frankly, what's the point of chasing after attractive women when you are more than likely not going to have anything in common with them? Now, I'm not generalizing ALL women into one group, I know there are women out there who are both very beautiful and intelligent, but from my personal experiences, I have found that the girls that I found most attractive had a higher degree of social intelligence, but considerably lacking in common sense and book smarts. Meaning they were social butterflys and liked to engage in conversation, however their interests were superficially based (on things like drinking, partying, kids, television, etc), and they often made very poor choices and did not share an interest in thought provoking matters.

I believe that you can disagree on things with someone and be their friend. You can not have a lot in common and still be a friend. However, if you are involved with someone romantically, and don't have much in common, sooner or later it will come up and it won't be good.