Friend Zone...

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Am I the only guy this happens to, you know a girl you are CRAZY about, yet you somehow wind up stuck being a friend, and you can't seem to change that? All the advise the internet gives on how to get out of it is stuff I outright REFUSE to do, it involves a blatant transfiguration of myself and my comfort zone. I also have no idea what flirt even means. Most of the dating advise here is for a new girl, but what about a girl you've known for quite a while?
Now granted I'm far too afraid to voice my feelings or propose a relationship. And I know if I do propose a relationship I'll return to my learned behavior being a former door-to-door salesman and President of my high school's debate club (I'm in college now). The girl I like however goes to a different college than the one I go to (it's a good 3 hr train ride away), and over the summer I live in New Haven, CT and she lives in Los Angeles, CA.
Now distance isn't a problem. I don't like to be smothered and I have a tendancy to be smothering. The distance will forestall both. Also the distance will make it easier because I'm pretty low maintanence, and don't like to have to work at things.
Ruining the friendship shouldn't be a problem either as the friendship is solid and satisfying in and of itself, and therefore it is illogical it will be awkward.
Understand I know nothing of sex and have very limited interest in it. I'm wavering btwn waiting until marraige, or just letting the girl call the shots in that department, both work because I'm somewhat religious and somewhat submissive. So if that changes anything I don't really know.
I personally would like to make the relationship be ran "professionally," with rules and guidelines in writing. Articles and Amendments. I'm not very demanding. My friends say this ruins the spontanaeity, I say add on an amendment that spontanaeity is good! Besides, the girl and I can be pretty spontaneous, to the point of inefficient. When choosing where to eat in a major city we enter about 8 different places before we decide where to go. She couldn't agree on a place in Little Italy in NYC and we wandered for 2 hrs on the same two streets. I hadnt eaten anything in 9 hours. She has this unusual habit of asking waiters and waitresses for suggestions and then asking a slwe of other questions and then ordering something that none of the questions or answers allude to effectively. After this 25 minute ordeal the waiter or waitress turns to me and says, "and for you?" "Cheeseburger, please." Wow, talk about a tangent. But my Myers-Briggs says INTP, her's: ENFP. If that helps at all.

That happens to just about every guy on the planet.

I took these two sentences together because they're directly contradicting. Yeah, it's nice for us aspies to be able to have structure, but unfortunately relationships are anything but.

[removed - M.]

There's a reason why all the sites you've been to proscribe vast changes and uncomfortable strategies. It's because this woman is a battle that's utterly lost, using your current strategies. There is no victory to be had here.
If you are unwilling to make changes in you behavior for this one girl, then there are two options:
A) Accept it. You're only her friend, and when you're around her, you'll never be able to be anything but a friend, barring unusual/strange/unreliable circumstance. She is flat-out not intimately interested in you.
B) Remove her from your life. She is an emotional drain who occupies far too much of your time and energy, a person who is a net negative factor on your life because of the immutable way you feel about her.

I suggest option B.
I do not believe you should vastly change yourself to try to gain her sexual interest. That's faking, and even if it works for a particular objective, it's a road that doesn't go very far.
And I do not believe you should accept your fate, and continue to be around her. Unless another woman comes along that manages to eat up every smidgen of interest you once had in this woman, she will always linger in your mind. An ache that never goes away.

You would be best to realize that this girl is not that special. She is one girl out of billions. There are others with personalities just like her.... Better personalities, even. Your focus on this false ideal woman - who sits in a glass jar, on a marble pedestal, surrounded by a shaft of holy light - is a degenerative rot on your emotional health. There are women out there who are appropriate for that pedestal of yours(to a limited extent), but it requires something specific: Being engaged for marriage.

She may be cool and all, but due to the circumstances(primarily, your inability to effectively flirt with her early on), it is extremely unlikely you will ever be able to change the way her feelings have settled regarding you. Although it is not her fault, you are better off moving on without her in your life. Over a relatively short period of time, you should cut down contact with her, and eventually stop contacting her, and generally avoid her. Be pleasant and kind, but don't linger in conversation with her. Don't make a goodbye speech/note, and absolutely don't talk about it with her. This is how things will get better, and the beginning of how to improving your romantic lot in life. This is how you start to receive what you deserve.

I don't expect you accept this right off, but I hope you at least read it so that you realize it's truth later on. I speak this advice from repeated experience.

Last edited by Sound on 06 Mar 2010, 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

That is never going to happen. Ever. With anyone.

Just letting you know.

And none of what you said was anyhow related to what you think she feels...

Lots of "there's this one girl who doesn't like me romantically but I obsess over her like she's the only woman on the planet" threads lately...

This happens, and unfortunately, quite often you really can't change things. You have to accept that you are just a really good friend, that's all. Appreciate her for what she is though; relationships come and go, but friends are very valuable.


There's a lot of crap out there about picking up girls and 'flirting you way to success', but some advice is good. As an aspie, focus on things like communication skills and chatting to people you normally wouldn't. I know you say you're only after this one girl, but you're seriously limiting your choices.

Also, if you appear more desirable to other people, you may get more attention from the person you are after. Sometimes it takes a good dose of envy for someone to open their eyes.



So... you refuse to flirt, you have no plans to voice your feelings or propose a relationship, but you want to go out with your long-term, long-distance friend.

Sorry, but what are you planning on doing? Are you just hoping she'll read your mind? To her, you're a friend. To her, she thinks you think she's a friend. If you don't give any indication at all of having feelings for her, how is she going to be any the wiser?



You may like the idea of a long-distance relationship, but does she? A lot of people won't date people in other cities. Having been in a long-distance relationship myself, I can tell you they are difficult and sometimes require more maintenance than a normal one.



Don't kid yourself. Many strong friendships have been ruined by one party admitting to having feeling for the other. When friends become boyfriend/girlfriend, there is a huge chance that things will never be the same again when things end. I'm not saying you can never be friends again, but don't count on it. Also, it's hard to watch someone you used to be much closer to move on and find other partners, whilst you remain their 'friend'. Love isn't logical.



Most girls hate this, to be honest. I'm not saying that there aren't exceptions, but being sexually submissive is a turn off for the majority of women.



Brilliant description Honestly though, I can see you killing each other if you ever go out. Not to mention, you will never get anything done. I think your friend may be the type of girl that likes other people to be pro-active and decide things for her. If you are a passive type yourself, then you may just end up going round in circles.

She sounds a great friend, but I really think you should leave it at that.

We got some good stuff on here, but I have an elaborate plan. Basically it involves fighting a proxy war for her, let somebody else probe her. Report her response to me. Work the probe out of her when she's a bit tired. See what her response is. If positive to the notion, move forward, if negative, pin it all on the accomplice, and move onward with closure that such was a failure. That's the gist of it at least.
This is not that use a friend to ask her for you. This is use a friend to gain useful information through some shallow probing while I'm defecating or something.
I'm moving a bit on from this whole thing, but I refuse to do so without effective closure. I know the professionalism is......unfeasible so I won't attempt it, BUT cutting her out of my life wouldn't exactly ever work, I thought we were related until we were like 10. (I wasn't attracted to her until I was 16; I wasn't into her until I was like 18ish).

Granted, my favorite economist, Ludwig von Mises once said, "'This time it's different' are the five most expensive words in the English language."

Part of the reason for phasing these unfortunate women out of a guy's life is because he'll grasp at straws, trying to make it work. He'll find any excuse, any scheme, and see it through, even though the chances of a marginal 'success' are 1 in 100. Ultimately, all his efforts are, in part, tactics to avoid doing what is difficult, and looking for an emotionally easier route. The prolonged state tends to entrench us further in our obsession, and things often happen that make the situation even more complex, awkward, and difficult.

Nonetheless, I wish you good luck; You will rely on it.

Same exact boat, except we only live three hours away and we both go to the same college. But sometimes before entering a relationship, breaking vicious cycles is sometimes a good thing before entering a relationship.

I haven't even had any male friends IRL, let alone any I could banish to the "friend zone." No guy has ever been openly interested in me so I've never had to do that to a guy.

I don't believe in the friend zone theory, because there is always a way where a guy can get himself out, provided the woman in question has some interest.

These friend-zone musings are quite frequent these days, I thought I'd add my 2 pence.....

For the last few years, I had a HUGE crush on a girl who is [still] a friend of mine, not a particularly close friend, but a good friend. I saw her every now and then, and spoke to her a lot on the internet. Gorgeous looking girl too, might I add

I spent ages pining after her, me being rather naive on the relationship & attraction front having never been in one. To the point where I had dreams about her, some cryptic, some rather explicit . She did admit to being attracted, and her interest in me was fleeting, at one point, we nearly did get together very briefly, but it was quashed as quickly as it arose. She changed her mind about me a lot (and still does lol) so often nothing came of it. After that, I decided I wouldn't pine for her, and I would just get on with it. Now, we're still friends, and I'm still quite attracted to her, but it's a non-issue past this point because I recognise that there are probably valid reasons for why a relationship between us never took place. Analyzing it now, I can see a factor in the friendzone:

What I have begun to realise is that the friendzone isn't permanent, and never has been. Instead, it is a sort of referral, for those who perhaps may not make the immediate grade as far as the girl is concerned. There comes a point where the man in the friendzone will suddenly become a viable option, through whatever reason the girl has in her own mind. From there, you can make your move. I failed to do this countless times, and missed many windows of opportunity to make a play for her, but it helped me learn more about girls, and how despite getting to know the differences in how they operate, they are just human, just like me lol.

Don't despair the friendzone, guys place too much emphasis on these things and get bothered about it, and that will make your situation worse. It's not bad, the problem is NOT the friendzone, but the missing of opportunities that you may not know about.

I think the answer is just to be friends with lots of girls and have no expectations...