Love revelation: What is optimism?

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Every woman I have ever made advances to, has rejected me.
Inevitably, whenever I discuss this with friends, male or female,
they ALL say, "Don't worry. You're special. Eventually you'll find
someone who will love you for who you are."

Society calls that the "optimistic" response, but suppose it's not.
After all, it infers the conclusion that if I am special or worthy,
then every woman who rejects me is either too dense and ignorant
to see it, or vindictively evil. That in itself is a pessimistic outlook on
humanity and womankind.

Maybe the real optimistic view is that all those women are right,
and I have no worth as a candidate for love.
My rational mind suggests that the ladder is optimistic,
because it portrays the greater number of people in the
more optimistic way.

Irrespective of my emotional investment in either theory, I must prepare
in accordance with the ladder, because every indication suggests
that I must endure the duration of my lifetime entirely loveless.
To those hasty to label this as "pessimism", I suspect that you would think
differently if you were a short Aspie man with ADD, a stutter, and a lisp,
as I am.

I see no replies.
Have I check-mated optimists and pessimists alike,
eclipsing the possibility of rebuttal?
Or have I transgressed upon a taboo subject matter?
I neither sought to "fish for compliments", nor provoke
a fight, but now as feel as though in an echo chamber.

I have felt the same way too. Perhaps you approach the wrong woman, if you will allow me to be tactless?

For example, don't approach the most popular girl. That would be fatal.

Another point to make is that you must not seem too eager for a relationship. Pay more attention, but don't appear to be too intense. Play hard to get a little. Over time, when you are good friends only then do you make a move. My suitor started calling me endearments only after I scolded him (he still does, though I stopped scolding). And of course like the decent man he is he waited till I was of age to call me more tender things.

And help them out with their problems. Be a good listener. Girls like guys who can get along with girls, only it may take a longer time for them to fancy you.

I have also been rejected a lot. I have yet to find 'the one' who will accept me. I did become friends with them first as has been suggested and when I made my view, it was too late and I was in the friendship zone. I miss social cues therefore I have no idea when someone is interested in me. I just don't know what to do.

There is only so far I can water down my advances. I go out of my way to make it casual: inviting them to meet me at farmers market/street fair, offering to get coffee together, inviting them to a party with friends (one woman actually agreed to that and then changed her mind at the last minute). I take my time, and don't rush, but I don't know what else I could say that would be more subtle and less forward: "Hey, do you want to do laundry together?"

As for the types of women I approach, I usually make advances on friends or acquaintances who don't seem to be the "popular" ones, per se. In fact, many who I have tried to woe, have admitted to feeling depressed and unloved. (I suspect they resent me for poking holes in their fabricated depression. Their refusal to even consider me means they must not be nearly so desperate as they claim.)

I can only speak from my own experience and so this may or may not apply to your situation.

Most people, even most Aspies, are fairly good at detecting hidden agendas although I would guess that NTs are much better at it. If you ask someone to get a cup of coffee with you, but what you are thinking is "can I get her to fall in love with me?" there is a strong chance that your behavior will give off a weird "vibe" that she will pick up on. She may not know what your hidden agenda is, but she is likely to sense that you have one and if she has any sense, she'll run in the opposite direction.

I think the best bet is to know what you want and be direct and honest about it. But that means you need to limit your agenda, hidden or overt, to nothing more than "I'd like to spend a little time with this woman and get to know her a bit." I know that a major mistake I have made over and over is to want to bypass all the "getting to know her" stuff and move on directly to the marriage and sex part.

I think one of the things that happens is when you lack confidence but you want to appeal to a woman, you pursue one thing but you pretend to only want another. There is a conflict within your behaviors around the woman in question because you may desire her but you pretend to only want to have a conversation. She may not know what you are thinking, but she will likely guess that it is different from what you are saying and this might make her nervous. This is, I think, what comes across as desperate.

But if you ask her to get a cup of coffee with you because you'd enjoy talking with her and getting to know her a bit more AND this is the ONLY agenda you have, you are likely to come across as genuine and unconflicted. My recommendation is to give your self a year or two where you refuse to do anything more than get to know a few women. As attractive as they might be, commit yourself to only getting to know them. (If something develops I wouldn't throw it away, but the idea here is to force yourself to limit your internal agenda to just getting to know people honestly.)

Could your physical attributes be a factor? Yes. Of course they can. But if short men couldn't reproduced, shortness would have been selected against and everyone would be tall. Not every woman is going to find you attractive. But you'd be surprised what women will find appealing. I learned 25 years too late that one of the prettiest girls in my high school had a crush on me. I recently saw a photograph of her husband. He's uglier than I am.

Because Aspies have a hard time socalizing, we avoid interacting with a large group of available mating choices. The result is we focus on a single person and put all our eggs in that basket. The results usually don't work out so good. If you can find a way to tolerate associating on a superficial level with more women you may stand a better chance of attracting one. But the problem there is then you have to associate on a superficial level with a lot of women. (Here I don't mean be superficial or pursue superficial women - what I mean is don't invest more in a casual relationship than is warranted.)

So what this comes down to is a lot of useless advice from a guy who has never dated. The only thing I have is many more years of experience in doing the same stupid thing over and over. Is this advice worth anything? I don't know. I haven't been able to put it into practice. Had I heard advice like this in my 20's and had thought carefully about it, it might have helped. But maybe it might not have made a difference. We learn best through experience, not through lectures and advice.

Don't look for that one piece of advice that will solve all your problems. The only thing that will help is to take some kind of action so that, in the end, you learn from your own experiences. Listen to what other people say. Think about it. Draw your own conclusions and then take the best action you know how to do. That is the best any person can do.

Good luck,

Lars

I appreciate your advice as feedback.

The real kicker is I'm already stumped by too much contradictory advice.
Some people tell me to not act desperate, others tell me to "be yourself".
Some tell me both without realizing the irony.

Then there's the psychological question of whether I can
truly and sincerely change what I desire. Can I really
hypnotize myself to believe that I'm not desperate?

When I ask someone out in the aforementioned ways,
I don't imagine in my head that "she'll say yes, and then
fall in love with me, and then we'll exchange tokens of
affection, and have sex, and get married, and ..." NO!
I just want to hang out with her. The fact that I am
a lonely individual is a factor, but I don't see how that
undermines my sincerity in being interested in her as
a person, or curious about what she has to say.

On a meandering tangent, this is why I'm a fan of in-your-face
crazy absurd comedy, like Montey Python, as opposed
to subtle dry humor, or soap operas. It seems like we
Aspies can only triumph in the extremes, because our
brain acts like low-pass filters and screan out all
the minutia and subtleties that others detect and use
to their advantge. It's like trying to operate as a color-blind electrician.

If the infinitesimal variation of the inflection in the tone
of my voice leads her to the conclusion that I'm a
desperate or untrustworthy. Perhaps I should say
to f*****g hell with all subtlety and suave, and propose the
invitation in a Bullwinkle voice, or a grunge metal voice.
(I don't really think that would work. But it's the principal of the thing.)