Acceptable flirting for an attached partner?

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This is a bit gossipy, it shows how AS and NT in a relationship can live in different worlds - and not be aware of it until a shock comes along. I'd be interested in anybody elses opinion on this, too.

Basically my wife (NT - we've been together for 14 years) occasionally goes out with her friends, drinking and clubbing most of the night and then staying over at her friends house. Recently, in her own words she "got very drunk, very flirty and woke up with some suggestive messages and several phone numbers".

When I found this out, I was very upset and worried about our relationship. I'm not a prude, I know that singles behave like this all the time and I see people in long-term relationships do mild verbal flirting sometimes. However, I really believed that 'suggestive messages and phone numbers' was something you just didn't do when married or serious relationship.

However,she says that I have nothing to worry about, that the flirting etc is just fun, there's nothing more to it and it's absolutely normal behaviour that normal people do all the time. That I am only upset because I can't flirt and I don't understand whats happening. This is true - my uselessness at relationships is probably my major AS trait. I have never flirted and have never ever woken up with a women's phone number in my pocket. I'd be in heaven for weeks if that ever happened!

So much as I'd love to believe that I am overreacting and that I have nothing to worry about, another part of me worries that I'm being made a fool of. And these voices spin round and round in my head without really getting anywhere. Which is why I've dumped the problem out!

I suppose that each relationship makes it owns rules, and I know that there are many NT's who post here and I would be really interested in what they think about this, too. I've read that NT's often get annoyed by what they see as unreasonable jealousy from their AS partners. So is it normal for you too to wake up after a night out, with suggestive messages and phone numbers?

I will give you my opinion, which is only that: an opinion.

NT girls often says the opposite of what they think. If she says there is no problems, there is a problem. If she says it's not the sex, it is the sex .....

She may be sending you a wake-up call, and she's taking you for granted. She wants you to react but she doesn't want to talk about it, she just want you to do something..... 14 years is long, surprise her, buy flowers, go to opera (or anything else...), break the routine, make her feel beautiful, show her she is your princess....

Anyway, who am i to give advises in that department

Good luck !

PS if she knows about Asperger, and she tells you that this or that is what normal poeple do all the time, for me this feels like manipulation, but i may be wrong on that too

I wouldn't worry too much about it. When I was with my now ex-(NT) boyfriend, I had gone out one night with a couple of girls. We danced and got a little tipsy, and came home with phone numbers and suggestive messages at 4:00 in the morning. We weren't out looking for guys, we were just out there to dance and have some fun. My ex wasn't too happy about it, but I can't say I blame him. However, we were just out to have a little fun and we girls watched out for each other. All of us behaved and had nothing to be ashamed of by the end of the night.

I would worry if this is happening with more and more frequency. If she's spending more quality time going out with the girls and partying than being your wife, then you might have a problem. But once in a while doesn't hurt anyone.

-Ann-

I tend to agree a little more with Sundy, because our neurology, while good at analysis is still pretty much stuck in overdrive. If it's completely innocent like the way Sundy put it, then you risk far more damage with a strong reaction.

The only thing that concerns me is that there is a good point to what coyote is saying in that it does bother me that she made it a point to tell you all of that. Now I don't know her and I can't begin to say her intentions. She might be one of those talkative truthful types that tells exactly everything that happens to her, in which case there is no problem. Then she might a secretive type that never tells much about what happens when you aren't around, which in that case would not be good.

The best thing I can suggest is to not react big (no confrontations, checking up or anything like that -- those things are just destructive irregardless). But you know, it never hurts to spice things for a while.

Worse case scenario is that she's sending you a message for attention and you've got the message -- so you romancer. And lets say it's just your imagination blowing it way up -- in that case, you have some good quality time together and nothing is lost. So I say a little romance wouldn't hurt and otherwise just don't think about what happened that one night.

It seems unfair of her to say that you are only upset because you have Asperger's. I think anyone might feel a bit disturbed by that kind of behavior in their partner.

How old is your wife? Maybe she's going through a mid life crisis or something. When some people hit mid life they start making drastic improvements in their appearance, change careers, start going out at night as they did when young, flirt outrageously, and enter into dangerous relationships and various other uncharacteristic behavior..all to escape that sense of mortality that comes at a certain age.

I agree with the other posters here who say that it might be a good time for you to try romancing her.

Many. many thanks for the replies. They've been very helpful.

What I haven't said in the initial post is that she has already said she thinks it may be best for us to separate. The incident mentioned happened a month or two before she announced the separation, though. So, yes, there have been LOTS of warning signs over the last few months and they still continue. Unfortunately I'm very isolated and I have nobody to share my feelings with about this - only my wife, which is less than ideal. I really don't think a public forum is the place to air all of these things!

One other thing I didn't make clear. The 'obtaining phone numbers' thing probably wasn't a warning as she didn't actually tell me. It was in an email she sent and had accidently(?) left on the PC screen when she left the house. I came in, saw an email to a name I didn't recognise...and had to read it. She said she wouldn't tell me anything like this as she knew it would upset me.

Phoenixjsu, she is very "talkative truthful" to her friends, but secretive to me - to avoid hurting me. I'm often shocked by what I overhear her talking about with her friends!

Anadamide, you may well be right. My wife is 36 and in the last 6 months she has done EVERYTHING you list as possible mid life crisis! Dramatic weight loss, total new wardrobe (some of which I never actually see her wearing.....). And as for danger, on one 3.00 am binge in the back streets of a rough inner city area, she got abducted by a crack head who threatened to kill her - it's a miracle that she got out unharmed. I'm beginning to think she leads a double life: caring mother and wife, respectable career person and school governer during the week. And at the weekend - Wild Untamed Party Child!! !! !!

The advice about romancing is good advice. It may be a little late for this now - I wish I'd found this forum a year ago. The main problem, though, rests with me. I wasn't exagerating when I said I am useless at relationships. I have made improvements in most areas - built a career, improved social skills, even better physical coordination. But when it comes to romancing, I haven't got to first base. I don't like to use the word 'disability', but it feels very much like a disability. A whole area of human life that can provide much happiness, yet is completely lost to me. I'm typical AS in that I really want romance but have no idea how to go about it and my attempts are cringeworthy embarrassing, so I don't really try much anymore.

Coyote, I've noticed the 'saying the opposite' thing, too. This may the the root of why relating is so difficult for me - in relationships Yes always means Yes, apart from when it means No! And I can't figure it out at all, my post is an example of this - flirting and getting phone numbers is not acceptable, apart from when it is! Grrrrrr......

Well, we are still together at the moment and we are starting to see a relationship counselor from today. Hopefully we can work something out together.

((((ManErg)))) Sorry, it's an NT thing to hug at times like this

Wow, damn and deja vu. Your relationship does appear to be spiraling down, but not beyond repair. I have some NT comments, I just don't know how helpful you will find them.

First, about her statement:

"got very drunk, very flirty and woke up with some suggestive messages and several phone numbers".

I think she wanted you, on some level, conscious on unconscious, to discover this information. If she really was protecting that information (and your feelings), don't you think she would have exhibited greater care with her email?

In regards to her "midlife crisis" (I personally hate this phrase, it's too much of a catchall), is there an event that you can pinpoint that triggered this change? Did she recently get involved with a new church, receive treatment for addiction, change jobs, change friends? Think back for a year. Change usually evolves slowly.....there may be an event. Pinpointing a triggering event may not alter anything, but it could give you a greater understanding.

Also, you may have to let her go and see if she comes back. This may be the hardest thing you ever do. Sometimes a person must actually experience that the grass isn't always greener before they realize what they had. If you do separate, how you conduct yourself during this troubled time will determine your level (and quality) of contact with her in the future. This saying was shared with me recently: When your "there" has become a "here" you will simply obtain another "there" that will, again, look better than "here." To sum it up, satisfaction is elusive.

The stress you are feeling must be incredible. Patience is virtually nonexistent and takes great control (at least for NT's). Find someone you can talk to.....friends (not shared friends) would be good, professional, even better. You can try the romance route....start tentatively and gauge the reception. If it's not well received, back off and give her space. It's in her head, not yours. Unfortunately, it affects you.

And finally, just because you separate, does not mean all hope is lost. Sometimes you just have to miss what you had.

Good luck to you,
SheDevil

I think this behaviour is benign, especially as she is not making any efforts to hide anything from you. You definitely shouldn't react strongly to it or take it the wrong way. Flirting is completely harmless in itself and is just one of many ways people socialise. And as you have acknowledged yourself, you might be doing this too if you had the ability, so it would be fairly hypocritical of you to be doing anything about it.

ManErg, HOLD ON, you said your wife has had a dramatic weightloss all in six months followed by uncharacteristic behavior. Are you sure she's not taking those ephedra based diet pills? Those things have been banned and unbanned. Those pills can create all the behavior you have described, I know because when I hit mid life I took the diet pills, lost a huge amount of weight and finally had skinny thighs for the first time in my life. I became confident, wild and crazy, and fell obsessed with a young man half my age. I was not making wise decisions at the time and it was devastating to my finances and family. It was the lesson of a lifetime. I took the pills because I was going through midlife crisis and wanted to make some changes...well anyway, this could be what has happened to your wife. If she has gone from school governer type personality to interacting with crack heads, it might very well be that your wife has been taking these over the counter diet pills. Those things are called "speed" on the street.

I hadn't thought about the diet pills Anandanine. I don't think it likely, but I'll probably mention it to her as tactfully as I can. Perhaps I exaggerated the 'transformation' thing (trying to laugh at what really scares me) , her all night stay-outs are actually once every couple of months, not every weekend. We were talking about these changes today and she says she's mystified by this sudden change herself. And that the transformation is probably due to "7 years in therapy".

I now agree with the consensus that being given phone numbers when out clubbing is not really much to worry about itself - it's probably that there's all these other things happening at the same time after 14 years of stability. The more I think about it, the wierder it gets. She's been eating only Japanese food for a few months now, after never being interested in it before. How odd is that????

Enigmatic_Oddity, I totally agree. I have no moral high ground here! For most people, flirting is harmless, but for me I find it disturbing as I don't know how 'real' it is. The art of flirting seems to be around double entendres and hints that just sound crude to me. Together with the 2-way game of total deceit as each pretends that the others interests are theirs too. And don't forget the outrageous self-exageration. But I admit that I would do it if I could

Maybe you can guess I don't have anyone I can talk to about this. So thanks for all your words.

I think she is probably being truthful when she says you have nothing to worry about, but the explanation she provides is just an excuse. I think the real reason is that she was drunk and alcohol quite literally impairs mental function. So I would probably blame the alcohol for all this. People are quite capable of doing stupid things when full of alcohol that they would never do normally.

Excessive alcohol turns people into walking (or not so walking) fools. If people actually KNEW what they were like when drunk, they probably would be shocked and would be reluctant to let it happen again. But the problem is, alcohol also impairs memory, and so drunk people do not realize how foolish they were. They need to be videod so they can watch their behavior the next day when they are sober. Then they will realize how much the alcohol made them look like an idiot.

So the point is, excessive alcohol turns people into fools, therefore I would blame the alcohol rather than thinking your wife no longer loves you. Altho' people still need to take responsibility for how much alcohol they choose to consume.

I am quite disdainful of people when they are drunk... it makes them act like morons and they do not even realize it afterwards because they cannot remember it properly. I tend to ignore drunks and refuse to talk to them. And the next day they do not even remember that I was snubbing them while they were drunk, so it does not even damage my friendships

You can even call them a dickhead with there being a good chance that they will have no memory of it the next day, or they cannot remember it unless someone specifically tells them about you calling them a dickhead and only then can they vaguely remember it