Pedestal vs. mistreating women

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When it comes to dealing with women, at some point there should be a correct point somewhere in between putting a woman on a pedestal as opposed to treating her like a walking piece of s**t whose only purpose is to fetch beer and cook.

I'm not the one to ask as to what point would be optimal. I think the balance would be difficult for someone to navigate if the right execution doesn't come somewhat naturally to them.

What I am saying is that how to treat women can be viewed as a spectrum, at some point you are too nice, and at some point you are too mean. At about what level would just right be?

It varies from woman to woman. I was the meanest I've ever been to my last girlfriend, but she was just as mean back. If I wasn't as mean, she'd have taken even more advantage of me as she did.

Not the best person to ask, since I've never had a GF. But it is a tough balancing act, isn't it?

If you try to show no romantic interest, and talk to her like you're her brother, you come off like the 'gay friend' shoulder to cry on. If you come on too hard, you look like a weirdo.

When I figure out the correct balance, I'll let you know.

Treat a woman as a person first. Respect her as you would respect another human being, AND expect she reciprocate that respect.

You know a lot of times we are told to treat others how we would like to be treated. This is generally a good ethical frame work, but it's not complete in the context of a relationship. In a relationship, you should add, "and ask that they treat me, how I would like others to treat them."

This should help you decide of one of her requests is unreasonable and you are not being unreasonable by rejecting it.

Here is an example:

You have worked a double shift and are exhausted and just want to go home and relax. But your girlfriend calls and requests that you take her to the county fair. You know she likes fairs and this would make her really happy.

A guy with Nice Guy Syndrome would say yes. He'd take her and not even bother to tell her he just worked a double shift and was really tired. The second she asks him to do anything, internally he feels he MUST do it (and secretly expects her to be the same way because he is so nice to her, he deserves. He never tells her this, he just expects she'll figure it out one day).

So he makes himself suffer.

Now ask yourself this. If SHE, your girlfriend, worked the double shift, and she was really tired and someone else asked her to take them to the fair, would you think it unreasonable that she say no?

No, it's not unreasonable for her to say no. She's tired. She deserves to rest, and there will be more fairs. It is reasonable that she say no.

Now turn that around. You are tired. You want to rest. It is also reasonable that you say no.


Here's a second example:

You just got off work after working a double shift and are exhausted and want to go home and relax. Suddenly, your girlfriend calls. Her car broke down 45 minutes away and she has asked that you come pick her up so she doesn't have to spend $125 on a cab.

A jerk would say no. He's tired, and so what if she pays $125 for a cab. She has a way home and it's not his money after all. He either has an inability to comprehend the full nature of the situation, or doesn't care.

Of course in this situation it'd actually be reasonable, and the right thing to do, provided you are not too tired to safely drive, to pick her up. Picking her up serves a functional purpose. It is not an extracurricular excursion, but rather you getting her out of a tough situation when the alternatives are overtly burdensome.

You need to put your good intentions to work where they count.

An interesting question raised, and some good responses also.

I think it's a matter of don't mistreat women, and understand the distinction between putting a woman up on a pedestal and treating a woman well. Putting a woman up on a pedestal is actually a form of sexism, believe it or not (this is a phenomenon researched in psychology)

For example; you need to protect a woman because she is fragile and delicate. You need to protect the woman's purity. etc. These things imply that a woman is incapable of caring for herself (as opposed to a man), and also supports sexual double standards.

It's a different concept to explain, and there's actually an academic label for it, but I can't remember it at this minute because I'm too tired.

I wonder if the women's responses differ from the men's.

Chronos has the right idea, I think. I'd probably need a list of many examples to feel comfortable enough to make a judgement call myself.

i think i'll just echoe what everyone else is saying and just say: "treat her like you'd want to be treated in this relationship"

sounds like a simple solution but there is method within the simplicity of it all. now ask yourself, is it possible to know what anyone else in the world is thinking or wants for sure? obviously not.

that said, all you can do is treat her with the general respect that you would want. this doesnt mean treating her like gold as ya say but just treat her like you'd treat a good freind of yours, a good male or female freind (although the way you would treat the two can vary a lot so just make sure not say or do something to her that would only be acceptable in a fellow male's company i.e rude jokes that mostly men would find funny, particularly strongly sexist ones..

i dont think a normal girl would care too much about you just casualy being nice to them. i wouldnt want to go out with a girl that wouldnt accept anything but the utmost godlike treatment from me. this is just all to do with getting a balance of affection between each other.

I''ve always been a bit jekyll-and-hyde about partners. I think it mostly comes from sleeping with them too early and discovering their flaws after I'm too committed to the relationship to feel particularly free to leave it. I resolved to change this but my most recent partners wanted sex quite soon after meeting me, and I'm afraid I was rather weak and I accepted.

Best advice I have is to keep things nice and casual till you really know the lady. If you've not yet contradicted her or admitted to a different view about anything, it's probably too early to get deeply involved.

Problem is, there's usually a huge temptation to just fudge this and crack on with getting the relationship up and running. But it's vital to resist that temptation. Watch out for the warning signs of the pedestal syndrome - chiefly being unable to think of anything bad about her even though you know that nobody's THAT good. Watch yourself as you proudly wimp after her, opening doors and buying flowers for the object of your desires......are you overdoing it? Are you basically just feigning Mr. Lovely so that she'll think you're better than you can ever hope to be in the long term?

It's hard to take the risk of treating her in a more finite, "I have values and opinions of my own" style because it's bound to reduce the chances of success in your opening game, and success is often a rare thing for us, so we imagine that every bit of totty that crosses our path has to be given the full treatment. But if you're not suited, then at best you'll be wasting your time in the long run. It can take many months for a bad relationship to resolve itself (by falling apart), and then you'll probably just start feeling bitter about all women, and you'll be older. Better to keep yourself free to take up other opportunities.

You have to decide for yourself where that point is. Just treat others the way you'd want to be treated. One pitfall is that you can't take feedback about your behavior at face value all the time. There are a lot of women out there with a chip on their shoulder, and they'll get offended if you hold a door open for them even though you'd hold the door open for anyone. No matter what you do, someone can always interpet it the wrong way. You'll never please everyone.

I found this an interesting article about how men put women on pedestals and the like.
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... guys.shtml