Married & need tips on how to deal with him

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Last edited by Toddy on 26 Jun 2006, 6:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

Hi Toddy and welcome to the forum. I am sorry you are feeling frustrated and hurt and i hope you'll find some help and understanding here.

Re:

I will pass along some advice a friend gave me many years ago, when my husband withdrew from me emotionally and intellectually. My friend said, 'you have to accept that you will not get this (an emotionally-intimate) relationship from him; so if you need that, you will have to find it somewhere else'.

In other words, make new friends, get involved with something that interests you, start spending more time on things you enjoy. Set aside time to pamper yourself with whatever reward (a spa day, a long walk, a shopping spree, a nice meal with a friend) you crave. If you think counseling would help, you could try that; at least you'd be buying a sympathetic ear for your problems and you might get some insight or help.

It sounds like you already recognize that what you truly want from your relationship with your husband, he is simply unable to give. That can be a very painful realization. I hope you will be able to find some compensation for this lack in other areas of your life.

Thank you. Your thoughtful reply is what I needed. It has lifted my gloom and will be saved as an inspiration when needed.

Last edited by Toddy on 26 Jun 2006, 6:49 am, edited 7 times in total.

I just wanted to post to show some support for you, Toddy.

I too am married to a man I am convinced (and some others here think so, too) is an Aspie. But due to cliche thinking on most therapist's parts... he is undiagnosed and in denial. Well let's put it this way. His therapist is a 'family counselor' not an expert and not even a psychiatrist. He has major anxiety, clinical depression now with paranoid features... (And blames this ALL on me for 'bothering' him, basically.) The straw that broke the camel's back was his parent's deaths both within a few months. He showed nothing on the outside at the deathbed, his siblings all interpreted that as 'how strong he is". I definitely know what a cross this is! (I pray too; are you Christian? Just curious.) Anyway once that happened he got much 'worse'.

The keyword for an NT's life with most Aspie spouses? LONELY. Of course we can make other friends, develop hobbies, etc. For me it goes beyond that, even. In my case my hubby won't do a thing he didn't do when single. (Which means, if he's not eating or sleeping he's at his computer & sees no need to buy a home or see anyone.) He basically moved in here, my 1 BR apt., when we married and will not buy us a home. I am not allowed to know about our finances. He keeps a tight control on everything... so in addition to no emotional or physical relationship (unless in his own mind, or pod, as I sometimes think of it) I also have a lot else lacking that I had hoped for in marriage. He will not buy a home, have children, look at me, talk to me, touch me really, (if I ask he'll lightly hug me) and will not really spend time with me. He is brusque with me. He has distanced himself from his family/friends since we married, turning down invitations, not calling them, etc., so they conclude it's my fault! Actually I try to nudge him to do so. I think it's a case of, one person is all he wants. Just having me nearby seems to fill up his social meter. (But of course, that isn't enough for me! I want to CONNECT.) As with your hubby he's relieved when he hurts me so badly verbally that I just leave him alone a while (not that I bother him often anyway - but to him - I think "at all" is often).

I think it is selfish of anyone in a marriage, to marry but not adjust at all to living with your spouse. In all marriage there has to be compromise.

I think it takes a person of high ethics to be a good spouse to an NT (if they are AS or Aspie) because literally they are speaking another language or even feeling as if they are trodding on foreign soil. I do think love makes the effort... rather than simply ignoring the other person's needs.

Like you also, well meaning types (or sometimes not so well meaning quite frankly... got any in laws who run and gossip about you as if it's all your fault??) say just to wait it out, just to try to talk to him another way, (I have tried every tone of voice, time of day, situation, etc., you can imagine), just try to wait until things are calm to talk to him (as if it matters when - trust me I've tried), why don't you two go biking (I wish!!), why don't you get out more (I wish!) and other things as if I don't have common sense and didn't try all those already. They don't get it. **HE WON'T**. Period. You may as well pull a mule uphill.

My husband too prefers to be totally in silence and left alone. It is a very painful thing for me. I am not even a social butterfly myself. I'm introverted. But I do like to go out of the apartment, see things, see people, go to a movie, etc. Low key socialising I guess one might say. I don't need a lot of parties and noise, but I never wanted to be a shut-in either. (I have been physicaly ill a while now and that is why I don't get out alone more often) Being ill and not feeling well at times it would cheer me up immensely, to go out of the apartment, see something new, see a movie, or just be around people. (You may ask why I married him... Plainly put, he hid this when we dated. He smiled a lot then, and we went out somewhere every weekend. He did seem a little nerdy but I felt that was 'cute'. His way of speaking was very stilted, but again, I felt he just hadn't gotten around much... His apartment was spartan. I chalked that up to 'bachelor living'. Never occured to me he would resist changing that awful place! I did notice changes once we got engaged - he began standing up social engagements with others, etc. and making more demands like he stopped driving to me, and also, began to 'call all the shots'. Naively I put it down to pre-wedding jitters.)

Now we've been wed 4 years. The stress, for me, is awful. I hate to beg for a crumb of affection!! (And of course if I try to tell anyone about any of this.. they assume I'm 'dramatic'. The situation is, not me!!)

Sometimes I beg him to talk to me... look at me... What sets me off though is when he sarcastically claims I do not want him to. That just blows my fuse every time, because it's so unfair. How can he say that when I am at the same moment begging for his attention?? It's his way of putting the blame onto me - even though it does not make sense. I have tried anything I can think of, to spend time with him. Even doing what he likes, i.e. something with computers... he prefers even that alone. When I get angry eventually, because to me this marriage is only in name... THEN he tells me I need help and I have an anger problem. It again is so unfair.

Enough said for now. Suffice it to say "I feel your pain". Do what you can to make yourself happy... for whatever reason he's not going to. Cold but probably true??? At least in my case. But then he also says he loves me and does not want a divorce.

How confusing is that!!

Popsicle

You must feel horribly tricked. The way he'd do all the right things when you were dating and not now. I don't understand why he got married. Was he thinking he'd get his own personal house slave? And he's got no right to keep the finances from you. You're entitled to half so you're entitled to know whats going on, and you need to know that he is paying the bills.

I think I'd be angry enough to unplug his computer. At least that would get an emotional (if somewhat unpleasant) response from him.

Toddy

I don't know what you can do. The aspie husband that truly cares about his wife is willing to do what they can to please their wife. It's usually a matter of teaching the wife how to tell him what she needs very specifically and in detail.

Sometimes they respond to praise. If he does one tiny little thing right that you like, be lavish with the compliments and appreciation. Look for tiny opportunities to do this. This will hopefully encourage him and make him more enthusiastic about being around you. If you are a constant dark miserable nagging cloud - he's going to do what he can to avoid you.

I suggest getting the books about how to deal with an aspie partner if you are NT (neurotypical). www.tonyattwood.com.au recommends a few in the relationships and sexuality page. If your partner absolutely refuses to change or accomodate your needs in any way, then you will have to find another way to get what you need whatever however that might be.

This is one of the authors he recommends...
http://www.maxineaston.co.uk/published/ ... Room.shtml
http://www.maxineaston.co.uk/cassandra/

I admit I've read another page where the aspie husband is writing for help. He says when his wife gets upset, he just kind of seizes up and can't say or do anything helpful even though he wants to. So I guess if you are asking for change when you are upset, you might get the freeze up response. But in both your cases, your hubby doesn't seem as willing to try as this one does.

wobbegong:

Thank you so much. It's just a relief to see that someone 'gets it'. :exhale:

Yes, I do feel tricked in a way. I'm not sure how conscious he was of what he did. He did say to me after we were married, that "You just have to become the person you want to attract". I never quite understood what he meant. I now wonder if he didn't try to figure out how to attract a woman, then pretend to have those qualities. When I met him, he also did some charity work at times. An issue close to my heart. I thoguht I was meeting a compassionate man. His shrink told me at one point, "He can do those things BECAUSE he's detached". I never even thought of that possbility. To me, charity volunteers are compassionate, or why would they do it? Of course I now see there can be other reasons - meeting friends, enhancing a resume, social obligations (i.e. some groups volunteer as a group) etc. Not always altruistic reasons that I had once assumed.

But anyway... Before we met he had been in a long distance (we also lived in separate cities - another way for him to put on his best face whenever he was around me I guess?) relationship with a woman who broke their engagement not once but twice. He told me (on our second or third date) "She said she loved me but just couldn't marry me". Well I think she saw something that I missed. He also dated her a much longer time than he did me. He proposed to me after only 3 months. Looking back I was naive or foolish or both. (I was also getting older, wanted children, and thought I'd met the man of my dreams) Anyway he dated her a year and a half... I think he sat down and very methodically figured out what went wrong that time and how not to do it again.

I also think you hit it on the head with the house slave comment. YES. He only wanted me to go to church and grocery store. AGain that was such a big change from dating (he never outright said anything like that) that I had a hard time even believing he really was acting that way at first. But he would sulk and pout and I was only going to the mall or the book store.... just to get out and about and walk a bit etc. We live in a city so it's not easy to get your walking in another way. He didn't want to let me join a gym. Anyway... Yes he was very controlling. He will still deny it - which means he just tunes me out if I bring any of this up even now - but he even checked my gas mileage at times. If I went for a drive just for fun (and that was all it was... just driving/listening to radio/sipping a cola!) he was suspicious. He had no reason to be.

Anyway until I became ill in the third year of our marriage, I cooked from scratch almost every night. I even made things for his lunches and hard boiled his eggs or made Scottish eggs for his breakfast. So what he'd do is, come home from work... eat... during which he'd talk non stop. Meals are the only time I really dont like conversation much... just how we did it growing up. But he'd usually talk about some friends of his from past years, not about anything I wantd to discuss. I heard the same story over and over. Then I'd wash the dishes/clear the table etc., (he might wash a heavy pan at times) and he'd get online. Then he'd go to sleep. He loved to get up before dawn and go to sleep after dinner. So my life ended up consisting of the kitchen, pretty much... then I'd be awake with nothing to do. No cable tv. He preferred if I got into bed beside him and read a magazine while he read a magazine. That was our first year - newlyweds! Lol.

He wouldn't buy a decent vacuum cleaner... or cleaning products... didn't want me to spend much at the store... the list goes on & on. Not only did he want a house slave but the budget was not adequate for decent meals etc. And then he'd eat almost all of it himself. I'd fill up later on whatever.

Long story shorter - once I became ill is when things hit the fan. Before that I could hop in my car and go to the bookstore if I really wanted to relieve some stress. I'd sit and read the books. Then drive home. This was also the only way I could ever hear music really (car radio, open windows...mmm). He doesn't like noise. But then at least I could relieve some of my own tension if not the situation. Now I can't do that, so the stress just builds up. And now I am no good to him for cooking or cleaning, so, he feels he is a big time martyr to just stay married to me I guess?? He even said Sunday that he can't divorce me because "no one else will take you". TO be fair he did say later that he can't talk and acn't find words and that isn't what he wanted to say. He said "that's cruel". I said yes it is but you said it. Lol.

We did have a triple whammy. Both his (elderly) parents died plus I became ill all within a short space of time. But I have proposed solutions or possible ones, like grief counseling, getting out more, (I have tried to get him to phone 'buddies' - go to a sports game with them - or even one - I've tried all kinds of stuff to cheer him up) but he does not seem to caer about solutions. To him, sleeping 24/7 is a good solution.

But yes - I do feel tricked. What I thougth I would have in marriage is togetherness, affection, family, a home, companionship, etc., etc. Romance now and then a plus. What I got was being ignored. And not much else. Of course, this is my side of it but really, it's all true, I'm sure he has his beefs too, but, at least he knew who I was... I didn't pretend to be anyone else. I hate to say it but I think the house slave is accurate. I have thought it before, myself. He won't admit it - but actions speak louder than words. Thanks and sorry I got bloggy but - things are pretty bad to be honest.

Oh! LOL about unplugging the computer. I might get in trouble if it fried. He works on it and it belongs to the company he works for. I did try taking the headphones off his head once (he will now listen to Mozart/Bach to tune me out) and he gripped them so hard the foam came out. All he did was calmly repair them. At that point is when I felt it was a losing battle. But yes, thanks for understanding the impulse. Lol.

Popsicle

I can see you probably have it exactly right about the dating thing.

This forum is filled (especially in the Romance sections) of boys trying to figure out how to get women. And they don't want a relationship. They want a personal house slave. They go to various websites and learn how to be "cocky and funny" or immitate confidence etc to get a woman. They make horrible assumptions about women and jerks. They think they are "nice guys" but they are really http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... guys.shtml

Hello? Boys? You don't need to get married to get a personal house slave these days - All you have to do is offer free board to a uni student in exchange for housekeeping. And when they get sick of the way you treat them, they can leave and you can get someone new.

Strangely, some of these boys do want sex and children, but they don't see the point of things like cuddling, kissing, massage, foreplay, female orgasms etc.

Some of them are willing to be educated, and some think they already know everything and are completely closed.

I guess you know your husband's lever. No help you out, no dinner for him perhaps.

Boys is right... no man deceives a woman like that or uses her for strictly selfish reasons.

sigh... Well I'm a bit irked after reading some more and thinking some more. I feel as if I was sold on the slow boat to China. Just how conscious was he of impersonating in order to get a woman to marry him? (I'd never even think of that... makes no sense to me to live a lie) Did he read "The Game" even? It does explain a lot of behavior while dating that I never understood til now - his personality and values seemed to change from time to time... subtly though. Since I made zero sense of those things and didn't know where to put them mentally, I just shelved them. He was putting a lot more effort into 'fooling' me with who he isn't.... so I ignored the other stuff, since the good far seemed to outweigh the little glitches where something seemed wrong. I simply did not know how to interpret the anomalies, but, all put together and in context of what you've said - Eureka.

The thing is, hubby would likely not even be bothered by (having done) all of that. Unless he sensed he was supposed to be. (Likely would not even admit to it) Now that's the type of thing those not in close contact with this type of man would understand... it sounds harsh or wrongheaded. But the thing is I do catch him 'imitating normal' at times - even down to mimicking exactly what I'd said about something else... (but it doesn't seem to fit when he does it) for instance 'this ___ is our last chance" - he will scream at *me* to get help (for me) and "it's our last chance". That's just a recent one.

Then he'll go and tell someone else that and - no wonder his therapist buys into hubby's view of me as a shrieking nagging harpy. The therapist is only hearing hubby's version w/out realising more. He might mimic my REAL despair about something but turn it into something about me. It's hard to explain. But then others buy that on surface level. I hear my "please get help" echoed back to me. Hubby claims he "can't do anything right, everything's my fault, you're always angry" etc. Which is patently untrue. He thinks of it as a small child might... with no understanding of his own role in things or the fact that my reactions have everything to do with his actions or inactions. I even tell him and list in detail if need be, what upsets or hurts or angers me most... none of it makes a difference as he's not listening. To him it is simply not important. What I'm trying to discern right now is, how much of his is calculated? Because if it was... I'm really never going to stop vomiting.

I do sense that to him, having achieved his goal of a wife, in a short space of time, makes him some kind of 'guy' to put a G rating on it. Now again to others that would sound odd. But I think some of us here know what I mean? You feel as if you were played. And for what? And (in counseling) he's smart enough to figure out if he makes the same noises I do, it's going to deflect at least some of my real complaints as others will be too muddled - what's the real story? It's like an echo machine. And see then the wives are stuck because to those inexperienced in all this... All our complaints will sound like most wives complaints "he ignores me" or to some it will sound unreal.

I try to ask him "why did you marry me?", and every time he has some type of non answer. (The first time, he did look kind of surprised, as if, "I didn't expect her to nail me on that") Ignore me, object nervously, bounce it back onto me as if that's something I can't ask... but never an answer. He does often say he can't follow me, or more often "You don't make sense, you don't make any sense, nobody can understand you" - luckily for the most part I've become inured to his trying to make this all my fault. He tries to make it as if things are this way between me and everyone. Very hurtful if I let it be.

As to the dinner being a carrot - (hmm, no pun) no longer, because, I quit cooking a long time ago. I got ill, and now that I'm much better (not 100 percent yet) I haven't picked it up again... I have no wish at this point, after all this grief, to be someone's lackey again. Really... he should have just hired a housekeeper. Oh but those cost more than a wife I also think that as he aged, being the single guy wasn't so 'cute' any more - I can't figure out what else he sees in me. Tax deduction? Seriously. None of the NT ways apply.

Maybe someone here can tell me - why DO some Aspie men *want* to marry? The basics of love so often don't want to be there. And I hope that anyone thinking about not being themselves and/or 'tricking' a woman into being with them... read some of these hurt, angry or sad letters wives of such men have written here lately... it isn't pretty.

Anyway wobbegong:

I love Maxine's website... That counseling page especially. That's me! That's us! That's "our" therapist! I have ordered her books and others from Amazon now, and will read those. I hope hubby will too. Meantime, the 'lacking empathy' thing is hitting home big. Oh the stories I could tell there. Lol.

Popsicle

Possibly the way that hubby saw it was - he wanted a wife - ie a personal house slave. Maybe you could ask him to tell you what a wife is for and supposed to do - don't get mad at him if he says stuff you don't like - just listen encouragingly. So he followed "the instructions" for getting one. Nobody told him about "keeping one happy" or how upset a wife gets when you don't pay her any attention.

A housekeeper is cheaper than a divorce.

Maybe he did want children or maybe he thought that having a wife would help him fit in better. Aspies can change their minds about stuff - usually when they get more detailed information - maybe leaving a book lying round where he'll find it would get him more educated. I suspect telling him he has to read it would only create resistance.

I don't think you've got any chance of changing the basic way he thinks. You might have a chance of getting him to put you higher up his list of things that are important, and with a good enough set of instructions, he could do things that please you on a regular basis, and you could feed that back as praise and encouragement.

But I wonder if yours has narcissism (the world revolves around me) and perfectionism (nothing is ever good enough) layered in with his Aspergers.

Nacissism will prevent him from ever valuing your feelings. Most aspies' trouble is they don't notice you are upset, but if you tell them, in a calm gentle way, they're profoundly embarrassed and do what they can to make it right, they actually do care. If you yell at them - they'll likely seize up in fright or retreat or sometimes - yell back.

Perfectionism is possibly worse. Everything you do be subject to very negative criticism. Everything he does, he will also also criticise negatively. Nothing and nobody will be good enough. This can lead to depression. You get sad because nothing is ever good enough. You (he) will do strange things to rebel - lots of procrastination (this is my personal favourite), and resistance to doing anything that anyone asks me to do, even if it is something I normally enjoy.

Breaking this requires a good deal of very specific praise and persistance and education about when something is good enough - and how perfectionism prevents anything from being ever finished right if at all. Dorothy Rowe (http://www.dorothyrowe.com.au/) suggested "being your own best friend". This would be good advice for the both of you. Your own best friend should encourage you not run you down. Another good breaker for this, is Edward De Bono's thinking hats strategy - which demands each idea/task be addressed from 6 different angles. http://www.edwdebono.com/ http://www.thinkingmanagers.com/blog/20 ... king-hats/

Only one hat is allowed to address all the negatives and things that can go wrong.

Some Aspie men, do love profoundly and deeply, they just have to be taught how to show it in a way that their wife will appreciate. They often show up in the forums as "aspie dads". Not all aspies are like your husband. Which means there is hope for him - to be aspie, and a good husband without trying to pretend to be normal - it is possible.

I hope you figure out a way that works. Another book that I liked is by Monty Roberts called "join up - horse sense for people". I think aspies and horses have much in common. I particularily like his contract system - for children but I try to do it for myself - a set of tasks, rewards for doing them, and consequences for not doing them. The tasks, rewards and consequences are all worked out by agreement so they mean something. If your husband is a perfectionist, you and he are going to have to include detail on what is good enough too - so the tasks are not impossible.

Try dealing with something small and easy. And being really happy (for a day anyway), if he does it. And then build on that in tiny steps. A list of things can be a bit overwhelming, so I'm not surprised he tunes it out. Consider it like training a dog. You get the dog to come by calling when it is already coming to you, and you being the most exciting interesting place to be right then. If you scream and yell and get upset with the dog when it doesn't come, it won't come and it will run away if you go after it. And screaming a list at the dog - will get the dog ignoring you.

I like cooking. Consider cooking again just for your own pleasure. If you make the occasional casserole, it won't matter if he doesn't come to the table when it's made, he could reheat some later. I also like making cakes and eating them. You could also investigate links between food and depression and anxiety. Donna Williams http://www.donnawilliams.net has been doing some investigation and has posted some articles about it http://www.donnawilliams.net/dietaryint ... .html?&L=0
Donna is associated more with Autism than Aspergers - and yet the way she thinks is quite different to the way temple grandin thinks (also Autistic not Aspergers). I'm not sure I can bring myself to give up stone fruit though. I think I'd rather have Apricots with a bit of anxiety than neither.

Most people with Asperger's syndrome learn to develop a public face to some extent after many bitter lessons. NTs do this more or less intuitively. The difference is aspies' public faces may contrast much more with their private selves simply because their private selves are much less likely to be accepted socially than a typical NT's relaxed personality. I am not very good at presenting a likeable façade and find even my attempts to adapt socially fall much shorter than I realize in the moment.

Your comment about your husband mimicking your emotional reactions strikes me as particularly interesting. I met a woman once who sometimes seemed to reflect back things I just said. Honestly, she might be a little confused about her emotions and look to others for how she should respond. She's not aspie (as far as I know), but she's definitely different. I also happen to like her very much despite some difficulties.

I have read that this sort of manipulative behavior in intimate relationships is not uncommon in people with psychopathic personality traits, as is their indifference to your distress.

Psychopaths have a defect in their ability to form caring emotional attachments that prevents them from seeing other people as anything more than objects for their own gratification. Winning or having power/control can fuel their grandiosity.

Psychopaths are notorious for shifting blame onto others and shirking responsibility. They may use generalizations like, "nobody can understand you," to control their so-called partners. I am not suggesting your husband is one, but he does show a few signs of personality traits associated with that particular syndrome.

I don't want to marry. It seems silly to put the cart before the horse. Now there is someone I love and would like to marry someday. Wanting to marry and wanting to marry someone in particular are two very different things. A previous poster here (maybe it was you) has expressed the opinion that many aspies want to get married basically so that they can have a maid/slave. This is stupendously immature, but it's not an aspie thing. It's a problem found in immature guys in general. Having Asperger's syndrome does not in any way render a man incapable of deep, meaningful love and affection for his significant other. I know this because I know very well that I am capable of caring for and about someone enough that I would put my own well-being at real risk for her. Sometimes I can have a little trouble expressing these feelings in a way that most women understand, but I think with time people tend to learn each other's idiosyncrasies and learn where they really stand.

I'm a married Aspie (recently diagnosed, "residual")
I started investigating after our son was diagnosed.

My wife and I have been reading two books in particular "Aspergers in Love" by Maxine Aston, and Aspergers and Long Term Relationships by Ashley Stanford. Heartily recommend both. And suggest your husband do some reading too.
I learned a lot about myself and what ny spouse puts up with, along with some really helpful advice about communicating.

Aspies aren't heartless, do feel emotions, do love, can learn.

Sorry I didn't mean to sound so bitter last night. It was all kind of hitting me at once. Four years solid is a long time to wait for any change.

Reading the reply posts I think you may be sensing (i.e. the Cassandra stuff etc.) that it's taken its toll on my health, too. In addition to some other health things going on. The stress definitely doesnt improve anything.

Narcissism, I hadn't thought of that... I thought narcissists always had to be vain. He's definitely not. But then maybe that is a cliche the same way there are cliches about Aspergers... I've heard that Aspergers people can't hold a job or make friends & we all know here that isn't generally true.

I guess I don't know enough about narcissism or about perfectionism as a type of syndrome etc., to really reply with intelligence there. He does definitely seem hung-up so to speak, on getting thing just right. He made a remark about how as a kid he would focus really hard on 'being organised'. To me it's not that hard, or really usually that important. I think the added stress of a 2nd person with all their 'stuff' was too much for him. I waited months for him to do the smallest thing about unpacking, for instance. I did almost all of that. Procrastination? Oh yes he does that a lot.

You mentioned not doing even things they enjoy. I'd say he does that also. Or at least, things that he would benefit from or enjoy later. He says he would like a home and family when I asked him where he'd like to be in 5 yrs (in his life). He said he'd like a home and a family. I said so do you want to still be married in 5 yrs? He said yes. I said I didn't understand, since he won't take any steps toward those goals or nurture our marriage. When I talk in that type of way he just says he can't follow what I am saying or that I make no sense.

More than anything it's jsut exhausting, I'm sure it is for him too. It's as if we're both struggling to speak Russian or Chinese all the time. Still - as you say, it's very possible to still do it, once told what the spouse really needs. It's why I ask him how he can say he cares (and I don't say it - well not always - in a whiny voice). he just rolls his eyes and tunes me out.

I do try not to yell - I mainly get angry when he purposely refuses to listen to me. Sometimes I just want to talk about something that has upset me (not even to do with him) or get some emotoinal support (which Im' understanding now as I post here, may not be possible at all) and when he 'taunts' me by saying "You don't want me to listen to you" that gets my goat. It's bad enough to be neglected but then to be mocked on top of it. My mom said, he is just trying to shut you down to shut you up. She may be right.

I really don't konw what hope there is for us without some miracle. As you sound aware, marriage has to take two people's participation and I feel I'm the only one trying. He does make food runs but he has to eat too...

I probably would enjoy cooking, I had a big kitchen for a single gal's apartment (it's where we still live so I still do) and used to enjoy baking for instance. Maybe I could get into that sometime again for fun. I do have chronic fatigue syndrome now, or at least that's what they tell me. Reading the nutrition link you gave, I wish I had some type of alternate thinking doctor to test my own IgA or whatever, and see if my system is just kind of malfunctioning. One Dr. thought I may have malabsorption syndrome but he doesn't treat that. Haven't been to doctors in a while and don't take any pills etc. I know there are a lot of things I could do to improve my own life, regardless of anything else. But I feel so tired all the time it's all I can do to putter through the day.

Many thanks for all your input and amazing information. My jaw keeps hitting the ground. Much appreciated.

PS now he's saying he doesn't want to go on the trip wth me for my sister's wedding, any advice about that? It means a lot to me and I doubt I can get that many miles on my own, plus drive long distances once we get there, etc., etc. Don't really want to either... showing up to my sister's wedding alone would be embarrassing.

Hey Popsicle

About your sister's wedding. She might think you don't like her if you don't show up. You could try talking to her on the phone to see if she's got some ideas. I'm thinking the easiest thing would be public transport, ie plane/bus/train - that would get you there. And maybe get your sister or one of her local friends to help you out with transport when you get there. Funds might be an issue - but if hubby doesn't losen up for this one, I'd say there would definitely be no hope for you.

Going to weddings on your own is not the end of the world. Every wedding I've ever been to, I've been on my own. It's no big deal. And it is better to go to an event like that on your own than to take someone who doesn't want to be there. This is your sister's wedding. If it is her first one, then it's important. Hopefully your family will be able to give you lots of positive support about your current problems.

Chronic Fatigue (CF) - sometimes I wondered if I had that, but it was more like intermittent depression. I like sleeping in. Diet is definitely worth investigating to help CF. For a tiny weeny help - try St Johns Wort (antidepressant) tea and put Echinacea (boost immune system) tea in with it. Echinacea tea tastes like absolute crap so I always mix that with another tea. I suspect chocolate and CF don't go together well, but I occasionally eat dark chocolate to help me feel better. Note - milk chocolate does not have enough of what the dark chocolate has that helps.

Stuff it - if I had CF and a neglectful hubby - I'd be moving back in with my mum - at least until I got over the CF. I don't care how much she drives me nuts, she never neglects me.

To be fair though the dating scene has gone to complete mash these days. A large part of it seems to be morals being thrown to the wind, people chasing dreams rather than reality, and because low self-esteem has become so universal its also gotten a lot more petty, more superficial, and all too often things work straight in reverse of how they should - thats not just an aspie perspective either, many of my NT friends on both sides of the gender line are having a great deal of trouble with it and would say a lot of the same things that are being said here. I don't know if its the fact that too much cultural freedom on all sides has caused us to just start dropping our humanity and start reverting straight back to selection staight on alpha but it almost seems that way. If you weren't born in late gen x or gen y be glad, really glad.

Thanks all for the continued input...

Somehow I didn't see the posts by NeantHumain and auralsculpture before. To reply to those:

Wow, Neant. Hubby does actually say things like this is all my fault. Like when his sister sent a horrible letter - I had confided in her, thinking she might at least care about his depression if not about me per se... she wrote him basically that he should leave for his own sanity. I was stunned at how this had been upended so far from reality. Of course she doesn't know anything anyway... I had merely asked that they all begin reaching out to him. I was trying to get him some family support. Instead she sent him a very nasty letter about me. I know because he handed it to me to read *!*

That's when I gave up on that for support for either one of us... and began to wonder if it isn't a family thing in part with him. ANyway - when I cried and apologised to him for telling her things about him or our relationship (only as a last ditch effort), and cried and said her statements had really hurt me - he coldly said, "It's all your fault. You brought this on yourself." or "You're not sorry. This is why I can't trust you." I asked him, how does that apply to his not trusting me... when it hadn't happened before now? (He has said in the past he never trusted me and then blamed it on me, for something innocuous/unrelated. When challenged on the logic he cuts me off or shouts.) (That's his reasoning for not opening up about money etc. too - doesn't make sense to me) I tried to tell him yes I was sorry deeply sorry and that it was wrong of me to tell her things about us but that I had had hte best intentions. The whole point was to ask them to support him, tell him they love him, invite him to their homes, etc. (I had tried to get him to visit them but he said he doesn't want to - as if, he doesn't wanna bother.)

He does actually say word for word, "NO one can understand you. NO one can make sense of what you write. You just go on and on and on..." Well, the people who've replied here don't seem to find me inscrutable or inane... He doesn't call names per se, but he does verbally abuse me in subtler ways. Maybe not so subtle come to think of it...?

He does seem to have paranoid features lately... I don't know if it's his medication (he doesn't take it regularly) or what. But he woke up sobbing and said "You're going to stab me in my sleep!" he said it over and over. I was shocked, but, I tried to reassure him (and I mean how does one reply to that?!) and listen and hand him kleenex, etc. Where he got that from, I have no idea. He was sleeping on the couch at the time and I was reading a humorous website trying to forget my troubles. I heard the sobbing start up and asked him what was wrong. But I mean, could he have really thought that anyway?? Once cried out he went back to sleep! (Well ... once I asked him if now he could listen to my feelings about what his sister did)

wob: My sister is younger, and starry eyed and it's her first and probably only wedding day... I don't wanna burden her with my troubles... also she will be the bride and I remember how busy that whole week is. I'd have to take a plane, two planes really And rent a car. And check into a hotel. Hubby insists "you can do it yourself". Why do I feel a bit shaky about that idea. Last time I flew I needed a wheelchair I was so weak when I got there. His sister had told me by phone to go by myself, as "it will give you both time to think and he can see if he really... if he appreciates you". She also seemed to push the idea of divorce a bit too eagerly then caught herself. I put it to the side.. but once reading her letter telling him to leave me it made sense. How odd is it to send your brother... who has a cell phone, email and a regular phone, a certified letter?? The things she said in it were too odd for words. She asked him to call my mom and ask if I had a history of mental illness. She said I should never be allowed to drive (perfect driving record). She kept digging on the phone as to why my family hadn't visited me - well they're 2000 miles away and I kept trying to tell her they can't afford to. I see them all at once instead. I've always made the trip instead. Anyway... her letter has convinced hubby even more that because I reached out to confide in his sister, (who always presented herself as the mother figure of their sibling group... he respects her) something is wrong with ME, and now that she also sent a four page typed letter telling him she thinks he is depressed because of me, and that he has to leave me to save his sanity... wow. That has just cemented all his statements and opinions, etc.

I really do not trust these people at this point... dropping in on us, asking odd questions all that afternoon, sending a typed certified letter... I have a strong feeling if I leave him here alone - they'll show up here and I do not want them here. They kept asking me to take photos of our home and put them into email for them. They said they want to see how messy it is. How weird is that? If it's messy... it's due to his doing nothing about it when I was too physically ill to manage... but either way it isnt a crime to have a messy house. And in light of my being ill and his depression it should also be perfectly understandable. The sister's husband dropped in on us from out of state - we met him downstairs... later found out (per her own letter to hubby) that hubby's sister had sent him there, to "check up on us" - but all he did was ask us to read his medical records??. (And then reported to her that we're both fine, I'm not ill and Rich isn't depressed... all this from one lunch?? He wasn't looking very closely anyway. But he is not a shrink and this was a lunch in a public place.) Again - bizarre. Who does that?? What did he expect to find? I am an open book pretty much: if I don't want to answer, I won't, but I don't lie. And am not in any shape to entertain surprise guests. I did my best... only to read in her letter later on that it was all to check up and see if what I said was true. Well what does that mean - he spent the entire lunch with us talking about himself and gave us a stack of his medical tests to read. He asked the waitress (brother in law did) if there is PMS in their food. He insisted until she went to the kitchen to find out.

As for mom... can't go to her either. She is an admitted narcissist (luckily I spent most of my childhood at my NT grandma's house and she was very kind and loving) and cares more about her house being perfect she admits, than any guest - she doesn't differentiate between 'any guest' and me.

So I don't know what the answer is... I do know that I don't want to leave him here in my home (it doesn't feel like 'our' home, sorry... especially as hardly a stick is different from my single days... he's bought next to nothing) alone, as I feel sure it will become 'party central' for whatever odd notion his family takes next. I coudl come back and find my things out or the locks changed who knows. I doubt it would be that extreme... but I do picture them sitting here and saying the same types of things in his big sister's letter. ANd she admitted herself to me in a long ago phone call... she married young and he's almost youngest...she has not been around him much since he was *five years old*.

Yet she's so ready to believe nothing is wrong with him that she calls everything I have said, a lie, and even sends a cert. mail letter telling him to dissolve the marriage. Well I can see where, if you believed I was a liar it woudl all sound crazy. But I'm not lying! Put it this way... his shrink seemed to realise that he had a psychotic break when he was rambling about my stabbing him in his sleep and shaking and so forth... But his family would take it at literal level and come break the door down. This is one reason why I don't want to leave him here... what will I Come back to.

But also I just want to attend my sister's wedding see my family again and try to lessen some of the stress I'm under. I told him it's very important to me. He just said that I hadn't gone with him on a certain trip. I told him he was attending a class, and it was not the same thing as my sister's wedding. A class/seminar in the next town in which he'd be gone until evening every day is not the same.

Thanks everyone for letting me know in no uncertain terms that this is not a typical Aspie trait... that Aspie men are capable of love and affection and kindness. Why would anyone get married just to purposely ignore their spouse?

putting my response in the
popsicle's hubby thread...

http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.htm ... 088#245088