Is there such a thing?

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Being able to talk to the opposite sex IRL without it being seen as a pickup attempt?

I just ask because I tend to be aloof and prickly to attractive women I don't know, if I end up making the mistake of asking a question in passing I usually find out my concerns about talking to them to begin with being a mistake are validated. For anything other than a formally introduced acquaintance or someone on the other side of a counter it makes me want to avoid all together, ie. if I'm having a fun time somewhere I don't want anyone killing my high (unfortunately with 20 years now of dx, eating crow over social faux pas - especially good intentions - make my blood boil no matter what I decide to tell myself).

Admittedly I've never had female friends outside of friend's girlfriends or friends I've made online. Still, I'm having trouble figuring this out - whether its just one of those individual differences where the world treats everyone differently on how they seem to come off or whether its something that is perhaps more universal? I know lots of guys out there are trying to get into women's pants all day long but - is there a radar that deciphers that stuff? Is there a way of communicating with it saying 'Put the gun down. I'm an allie'?

Im pretty open about this sort of thing. Problem is if you're open about it people just think you're after it.

It's possible...

...although I'm told that men try to 'chat me up' all the time and I never notice, knowing that when I'm chatting away to men on nights out, thinking I'm just having a friendly chat, that they're actually trying to pick me up, freaks me out.

It works the other way too - where as men who seem to want to get into women's pants are thought of as creeps, women who seem like they want to get into men's pants are thought of as being either desperate or a slut. I try to talk to guys all the time, just to make friends, but I always worry they think that I'm trying to get into their pants, and there's always an uncomfortable part where you're not sure if they know you're just being friendly, it's a major social minefield.

I think we women do get trained to think of men as predators - sorry guys, but women can often be on guard with guys - I sometimes feel that way, that when a guy is talking to me I do wonder if they're trying to pick me up. I will also say I think that men on the spectrum are likely going to get this more - you may well misread signs, you may not be able to talk to us 'normally', women may instantly think of you as creepy because you act slightly 'off' - nothing like making you feel more paranoid, huh?

It is normally pretty clear when a guy ISN'T trying to pick you up, I can't really give too much advice on achieving this crystal-clear way of talking to a woman without them thinking you're trying to get into their panties, other than just trying your best to talk to women as you would men...try to avoid thinking about it like that. Some women may instantly think you're trying to pick them up - maybe it's not how you talk to them, but the sort of women you try to talk to? Just be casual, I think most women folk don't instantly assume ALL guys are trying to pick them up ALL the time, as long as you talk to them casually I doubt it can be taken the wrong way.

Last edited by Bloodheart on 13 Mar 2011, 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think it's an important skill to learn. It's where I started when I started making a real effort with this kind of stuff. I just didnt even think about making passes. I just set that aside and concentrated on getting into conversations with women.

Sometimes I'd get pinged as a hunter and put in that box. There is little you can do at that point but walk away. But I think that happens to all men at some point. Being friendly can be misinterpreted.

Lol, the hard part is that's what I'll *think* I'm doing, and perhaps my confusion is that I emotionally 'feel' as if I'm talking to another guy or in the talking to another guy mode, it just doesn't get read that way. It seems like if you ask a simple question it sounds like a one-liner, you almost have to be making fun of something that you're both seeing or something along those lines.


I think that happens for two other reasons as well - when you have a neurological difference that has effected your facial expressions (inability to use certain muscles or project and use full expression - almost like Mobius-lite in a way) it effects the way your face looks, you have a different energy or 'vibe' about you, and, even if you dress well, if you're fashion isn't the pick of the day or isn't in sync with a pre-prescribed way of going about things that society puts out there or isn't within the current year of what's hip - people seem to assume a lot. I've come to realize just how many people sit there and analyze people on what labels their wearing, its scary to think that I'm in my own world enjoying life while perhaps many somebodies are staring at me across the bar and beating the stuffing out of a straw piniata of me in their minds.

I was part of an aspie group and at one given time we did have a moment to talk about each other, our difficulties, and what we could see from body language. I found out from them that something doesn't ring sincere with me (the psychologist heading it had to agree), when they got to know me they realized that I'm cool but it seems like my personality is staged or put-on. I've always referred to that as the problem of me not being who I look like I should be, ie. looking like a geeky/churchy/soft-rock-y type of guy genetically/facially but being much more of a subculture kid and having virile friends and interests, it seems like discrepancies of that sort bug people out in a bad way. The rough part about that though - if I try to pretend I don't look like a nimb I'm lying to myself, if I try to bend, break, and re-glue myself into a geeky/churchy/soft-rocky kind of guy, I'd be truly miserable and I'd even more so be lying to myself. Hence, I've always had the feeling like I was stuck between a rock and hard place, likely I may well be for the rest of my life - I'd like to think this gets better when I'm closing on 40 or 50 but, I've heard from people that age even that people are just as banal then as they are at 30, which is quite sad.

I know, easier said than done...I'm totally fine with men, talking to women is a whole different concept, their totally alien to me, even when trying to talk to women like with men it never seems to work out, something just doesn't work like it does when talking to men...and if it makes you feel any better when I try to make a friendly comment to a woman they seem to take it as me trying to pick them up too (I'm a woman, not exactly straight but not openly bi either). Apparently we're all weirdo's

For me I think some of it comes down to eye contact - you will either try to avoid eye contact (you look shifty) or make too much eye contact by split-seconds or longer (you look pervy). I can see how seeming like your personality is staged could be a problem - my personality isn't put-on, but being aspie means I seem shy or ignorant, thus when you do try to talk to someone it seems to throw them off (more so if your personality is loud and confident like mine). Basically you've got a whole load of things, thanks to being 'different', that do make you seem so 'off' ANY sort of social interaction is going to be a struggle, add the NT's social issues...like women instantly thinking all guys are trying to get into their pants...you're probably doing better than you give yourself credit for.

I think the chain if internal events for me is getting the impression that my social mode or way of doing things - ie. being real or perhaps not spending enough time on bogging my conversation down in coded guile - is freakishly aberrant and that a) no one else in 6 billion could even conceive doing what I just did and b) that in that sense I fully deserve the full weight and consequences of being that much of a freak of nature (that got compounded last night when I told some friends about what happened, related the question I'd asked, and they instantly saw the problem - that they would have taken it as a pickup line as well ).

I think that last part is what a lot of aspies missed out on who weren't diagnosed in the early 1990's, ie. you would think a doctor could be sued for telling a kid the kinds of things about himself and the meaning of his disability that I was. Regardless of how much I've tried to resolve the damage (and trust me, I've known better for years), its still like getting hit in the face with some really ugly stamps.

I think the trick is, its fine when you are on guard for it because you get what you're expecting. However when you're not on your guard for it and are actually being even more sincere, that's when you're vulnerable to having the wind knocked out of you for the evening.

Lol, true. I just wish sometimes I could get people off my case about being single and not going out as often as they think I should. I spent years going out to the club district downtown every other weekend with friends and found a wasteland out there.

yes theoretically its possible as male/female convos happen all over the place. but if gets anywhere to be like you are actually trying to really want to know about her, then prepare for detours and such to be thrown in your face. because you might be one of those creepers. when really a creeper is just an ugly dude talking to an attractive woman and so they call you creepers. of course if she is past like age 25, then she is just an immature shallow arrogant as*hole. but it all depends on the woman, 40 year old woman can and do act much like they are still stuck in their 20s and its depressing and sad and they are probably real life cougars. but whatever.

since it seems every woman who i know seems to be all ready hooked up, engaged, or married, then maybe my perspective is a little bias and skewed to the cynical side. but yes. you find a nice good woman than she should be all cool and normal about having conversations with you. all the rest, can just be the little pains in the asses they are so naively.

At my old job, some of the coolest girls to talk to were long-termers who'd been off the market for so long that they, I guess, forgot to keep their guard up. I have to laugh though, one of those girls I used to talk to regularly I did make a mistake with once working new years eve and asking what she was doing that night, lol, I really meant it like 'Do you have anything cool in store? I'd love to hear about it', not 'Lets get together'. Mistakes like that though can seemingly happen at any time unfortunately if you relax too much or forget to double-check what you're saying for other interpretations.

I really wish I could give some advice, but I don't go out to clubs or bars so I have no frame of reference. On top of that, all the men I work with are either married (definite no-go territory) or younger than I am (with no attraction to the young ones as they are like kid brothers), so I find it very comfortable to talk to them because there is no hidden or explicit agenda in our conversations. In fact, there is no agenda at all!

I'm curious how you are in your interactions with the opposite sex, your delivery of said lines that can be misinterpreted as pick-up lines. I would like to know though, when you're out and about, are there times when you're actually trying to chat someone up or is it just genuine plain conversation all the way?

I would like to be able to talk to men in a friendly way but it generally is taken as interest of a sexual nature the few times I've tried. Also, when guys come up to talk to me, they are overtly sexual despite my practiced body language telling them to go away.

I would really like to assume guys intend friendship when they come up to me but my experience has made me wary of even talking to guys because of the hyper-sexual jerks (who have been offended when I reacted angrily when they tried to touch my private areas). I'm not a flirty person, I actually had to learn it because it's part of a healthy relationship but it doesn't come natural and sometimes still I don't always flirt well with my bf (luckily he appreciates effort).

If I am ever trying to chat someone up I expect certain things, ie. none of it surprises me and I have no complaints. At the same time, even where I would be trying to chat someone up, its really seeing where they're coming from, it would really be their initiative to show interest to be anything more than a new acquaintance - ie. I'm not one of those guys who takes a friendly reaction as "Great, I'm taking her home tonight".

Also Bloodheart had it right, I can be in a situation where I'm simply living my life, I ask someone a question in passing, I don't think there's a better way of convincing your body language that you're not trying to pick someone up than literally not trying to pick someone up, and it ends up happening for likely the reasons she mentioned - ie. fashionwise, in subtle ways, my facial expression, giving off an odd or unusual 'vibe', they've probably marked me as someone who'd end up either enshrine pieces of their hair and chase them for the rest of their lives or someone who'd abduct them and keep their bones in a jar in the cellar. It might not be quite that severe but I've been out with friends even when an NT who seemed a little different spoke up from another group we were talking to and they simply went dead-pan, wouldn't give that person any reaction, really put up a wall so that the person knew that they were neither respected nor accepted, I've had that occassionally happen to me as well and yes - I practically had blood shooting out of my eyes "Rofl....really? So this is how you're gonna play me? F--- everybody, I'm leaving". The going assumption seems to be I think that differences like that are hiding really sinister things.

If you can come across as just friendly then I'm sure it's fine - plenty of guys talk to women when they're already happily with someone else for example, doesn't mean they're looking to f**k them.

The problem is that a lot of aspies CAN'T come across as just naturally friendly, especially as most of us have problems with social anxiety to a greater or lesser extent. So we come across as a bit nervous or awkward, and that makes it look like we've got some ulterior motive: sex

If a guy's talking to a girl and seems fidgety and shy, it's likely he fancies her. That's what people will think

i think so.
i prefer to talk to men than women.

I have the opposite problem, I don't usually know how to talk to women in an 'interested' way.