Finding human connection as a person with AS

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I don't really know how best to frame this question, so I'll simply lay out the two things that compel me to ask it. (For the TLDR crowd, just scroll down to the bolded question.)

First thing . . . When I have a real connection with another human being, it invariably arises from a shared activity. In a very AS way, I enjoy going through the motions of what excites me about said shared activity. For example, I've met a couple women in the course of doing photography work (I do photography as a side business to keep me sane; my real money comes from quantitative analysis). One was a PR person who had hired me. Another was a costume designer who hired me. In both cases, things clicked because of conversations about lighting techniques and stuff like Richard Avedon photos and off-camera flash. The costumer and I had a good go of thoughts on women in comic books (Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy good, Catwoman and Wonder Woman not so much). I eat that stuff up.

I only feel satisfied interacting with other people when I am engaged in that kind of conversation. Any other time, I might as well be sitting with a dog.

If I'm sitting with a woman, cuddling and just talking, I feel zero connection. Sex does nothing for me. Zero connection. I don't even enjoy it. I enjoy the conquest of it, if you will. The first time. The rest . . . you know, the part where you're supposed to be a cute couple and do silly things in front of each other you'd never let anyone else see you do, I don't get.

To be blunt, for this reason I am an expert at torpedoing relationships just to avoid the awkwardness of stumbling through the various phases of failing. I figure blowing a woman off and mistreating her is easier than going through the death throes of "Why won't you let me in?" (Answer: I would if I knew where the f*****g door was. I'm starting to suspect there isn't a door. My apologies.)

Here's thing number two on my mind . . . I've found a great girl who would date me in a heartbeat if I wanted her to. She waits at a club I like to go to. The other night she was off work, came to the club and sought me out when she saw I was there. I had been gone for a month (Europe) and I think she missed me. She didn't hang with anyone except sitting there talking with her co-workers who were on the job. As best I can tell, I was the only non-female, non-bartender, non-waitress she talked to all night.

We've had a few conversations in the past, where I have, in my normal style, managed to disappoint her when she flirts with me. And she took it poorly the last time (I threw a personal classic at her and asked how attention starved she was she needed to have ten minute conversation with a customer -- yeah, I've thrown some real dickish lines at her), but she still tries very hard when she sees me.

I like this girl a lot. She's my type physically. I get along with her well those times I choose not to be an as*hole. I know she likes me. I'm pretty sure she's figured out I like her, but she's having a hard time processing my behavior. Hell, I hate my behavior toward her, too.

I'm not inclined toward romantic stupidity, so understand that when I say what I'm going to say: this is a girl I could easily marry. She's attractive, she's a good human being, she's one of those people who comes off as instantly decent. I mean, like a really great elementary teacher. She just reads as a good human being the first time you meet her.

But, when we talk, we don't ever connect on any of that stuff that excites me. Like this last time, when she was off work, the conversation goes from "Oh, hey there" to just "Hope you're doing well".

I like the girl. Immensely. We just have nothing to jump off to that makes me care more than just "OK, you're a thoroughly decent person and I look forward to bedding you." Beyond that, it's an empty expanse of "Oh, hey there".

So, that brings me to my question . . .

What the hell do you do to connect with people who don't click with your more aspie interests?

I'm good at the basics of human interaction. I can flirt. I run a business where I make serious money. Drop me in a random street in a country where I speak the language or the locals speak a near cousin of a language I know, and it would take me an hour before I'm partying VIP on someone else's dime and hitting on some random girl. NT people aren't hard for me to follow at all. I can dance and drink and BS til 6am with the best of 'em.

And that's all fun. In a way.

But, like with this girl I like, I'm f*****g useless when it comes to forging a real connection. Have a fun, rote conversation about minute technical s**t and obscure subject -- sure! Just skip all that and get drunk -- sure! Actually sit down and try to tell some girl I think she's great . . . not so much.

And for me there are two big problems . . .

1. What the hell do you talk about with a person who apparently shares no common interests with you? And, no, I'm not a believer that common interests are required in a relationship. I've seen too many oddly matched married people to believe that.

2. I'm scared s**tless that if I do go forward with this girl that I'm just going to do what I always do. Get bored and torpedo the thing before the awkwardness happens.

I'm comfortable with a disposable relationship. I have no idea what to do when I think about any timeline with a girl that might extend beyond a couple weeks. I've never told a woman "I love you". (And I've fooled around enough I should have accidentally blurted it out.)

How the hell do you guys find that connection? Are my options in life empty relationships or technical conversations worthy of the convention-going crowd?

I know some of you guys are married. How the hell did you ever get over the hump and make that connection enough to give a s**t about marriage? What happens?

I'm a monument to teaching basic social skills to a person with AS. I'm a f*****g pro. Someone could write a good piece of post-doctoral work on my progress over the years.

But, beyond the basics, I just sort of feel like I'm wandering aimlessly in a big nothing I don't care about. I've been taught to live in a world that doesn't belong to me. But, I feel no ownership of it. I feel no citizenship in it. I feel no connection to the people there. I might as well just be staring at my neighbor's dog.

I hate how it makes me feel. In terms of relationships, I know I've caused vastly more harm than good. I consider myself a good human being, on balance. I help people. I'm capable of being friendly in a basic social setting. I contribute to society. I provide for my own well-being and have a significant surplus to enjoy. But, seeking connection seems pointless to me.

You're over thinking is bro. I do it too, I am OCD and I really analyze past conversations a lot. Just remember she is speaking to you because she wants to. Take things slowly, and as far as relating aspie interests, it's the same as a NT with another NT who don't don't have everything in common. To connect with someone, talk with them about themselves and past experiences. The fun thing about meeting new people is you can ask where they've been, what their experiences have been with this and that, and so much more. Women love sharing, don't move to fast on an emotional level though. Let her vent out and what not, oh and ask about what she wants in life b/c most people put a lot thought into that. You're right, common interests aren't everything, just take it slow, ask her out and see where it goes.

A lot of it for me is fear of what happens if I commit to a person. For me, it's hard to handle this idea that you just experiment with falling in love with someone and see how it works. That describes nothing I've ever done in my life. Anything I do, I set aside somewhere between six weeks and six months (depending on the relative difficulty) and plow through it and make it perfect. I mean, professional-level perfect.

That's what scares me. Frankly, getting a woman to like you is about playing strength and acting like weaknesses don't exist. In short doses, people can handle me very well. A two hour meeting or a night of drinking and I don't raise an ounce of suspicion. I come off as a cool, clever guy who is a bit different. Give me a solid week and pretty soon I become an obvious freak. I hit a level of exhaustion with human interaction and just stop. Stone cold, leave me alone.

In any normal context, I just fib my way through. More than a few business clients must think I'm in terrible health, because my favorite is "I'm sick." (Strong leaning toward respiratory illness -- that deters people fast.) With a girlfriend, there's no feasible way to attain the time I need to recuperate from human interaction.

I'm good at disengaging a relationship. And to tell the truth, I'm fearful that any attempt at a real relationship will end the same as every other relationship I ever tried ended: with me just hollering some evil s**t at some poor girl because she made the mistake of offering her view of my life when I never, ever care what anyone thinks on that matter. My general view of the world is "Shut up. I've got this."

Every interaction I have with a NT weighs on me because I'm waiting for the wheels to come off. It's exhausting. I just don't know that I can care about someone enough to overcome that part of me.

I guess I'm looking for some inspiration here. Someone tell me there's a way to make it work.

Your rudeness is going to make her give up on you out of force because that gets old.

Do you really have to be mean to her? If it were you in her situation honestly, wouldn't you rather just go away?

This always boils down to your own insecurities and you are purposely sabotaging. She will start seeing someone else and when that happens don't cry about it.

You've pretty much got it I think. I think you've constructed a prickly persona to function in the world but it only does certain things. It's not suited for relationships. You'll need to switch it off and take some risk that you'll be accepted.

There is no shortcut to relationships that I know of. It's risk.

Then again, maybe you are a born womanizer. I know a guy who claims not to have deep feelings for women and he just rotates right through them. It's like clockwork. I'm sure he has issues but I don't what they might be.

It seems some people would rather just make jokes with each other rather than have a conversation about interest.

Over a lifetime, the scary thing I've found is how long some women will wait for a guy they like. There were several girls in HS who went through something in the neighborhood of a full year of my s**t.

I don't say that to glorify myself. Just making the point that the type of gal who is willing to approach and signal me seems to be type that's up for some verbal abuse.



I am familiar with this outcome. Truth be told, crying is the furthest thing from my mind. I tend to be relieved.

Truth be told, I've taken a sweep through Facebook and looked up my trail of wreckage over the years. It makes me happy to see that the vast majority of girls who took and interest in me or dated me have found stable lives. Truth be told, I wouldn't have wished the turbulence of early 20s on anyone, so it's hard to feel bad for any girl that got to skip that. And the one girl who didn't actually was kind of a psycho, so . . . make of that what you will.



If we were talking about risk to myself alone, I could easily accept that. Screwing up someone else's life scares me.

I've never had any good role models when it comes to relationships. My mom practically celebrated when my dad died when I was kid. Every adult couple I knew growing up had very volatile marriages. One ended in a murder-suicide! (Protip: don't ever tell your armed husband he doesn't have the balls.)

Relationships scare the hell out of me. If I were pressed to do it, I could not name a single couple I know whose relationship I would model in my own life.



I doubt it. I can't picture a born womanizer feeling sick to the stomach thinking he's going to screw up some woman's life if he asks her out.

I grew up kinda trashy, to be honest. And incumbent with that were the charming relationships that white trash have. And some of the scariest s**t I saw growing up came from people's relationships. I'll save the examples, but suffice it to say I can picture a litany of negative outcomes for a relationship.

I don't know. Maybe there's a zoo somewhere with a functioning loving couple I can go observe.

You seem to have a lack of empathy problem in the sense of not caring. You've seen bad examples. So have I actually. Growing up however, I do not model my life over the dysfunctional role models I've had growing up. Instead, I learn how not to treat people. You are a grown up now. It's up to you. If you do have a lack of empathy in the sense that you cannot care about someone other than yourself and you treat others coldly then sit there and having this mocking attitude towards someone who likes you who may see the good in you waiting for you then perhaps you are right.

Work on these issues but don't blame it on others. Forgive the past. The people who surrounded you aren't sorry so don't expect an apology. Not like you care or anything. If you find yourself amused when you do hurt others emotionally you might have a personality disorder.

People need to understand that lack of empathy in regards to lack of care is not related to aspergers or autism.
The lack of empathy described is actually difficulty understanding other people's reactions, responses, how they are feeling...basically theory of mind. Which can be enhanced through life lessons.

This is why people who write books on autism should not just leave it at "lack of empathy" otherwise people think it means lack of care which is more common with personality disorder like narcissism, sociopath.

All you have to really do is think about how you would like to be treated. You don't need a role model. No need to push all blame on your past either as many with personality disorders do because really it's more of an excuse to keep doing it.

I don't think I have a lack of empathy, not in the sociopathic sense anyhow. I don't see such a person feeling the way I feel about this.

As for not needing a role model . . . that's all I do is model behavior. I'm not saying it's right, but in many cases it has proven effective and is, frankly, quick to implement.

I don't think sucking at being properly empathetic is the same thing as a lack of empathy. I don't enjoy hurting women's feelings. But, when everything starts to build up, it does work well in terms of relieving the pressure.

All of this bothers me. I mean, I have bawled about it. When I get a slow night where I can't sleep and all I do is lay in bed thinking, it makes me wonder what the hell I should do.

What scares me is that I'm very good at being functional. Stuff like money and basic interpersonal skills I have down to perfection. But, it has also made me fearful of stepping on landmines. As the song says, love is a battlefield -- a World War I battlefield, littered with razor wire, landmines, machine gun nests and poison gas.

When I'm with a woman, I can feel the exact moment that I've overstepped my abilities. It's usually a quite moment.

I had one of these moments about month back where the topic came to "do you think I'm the kind of girl you could see yourself having kids with?" This was in a rather intimate setting. I'm 33, BTW, so I don't feel that's a pushy question at my age -- I wasn't prepared for it, but it is a fair question. Also, frankly, she deserves some credit for sensing the big problem with me and addressing it. In a rare turn of events for me, I managed to just dodge the question as opposed to saying something mean. But, you can picture what not answering that kinda question led to . . . we finished the night in a civilized manner and then that was the end of it.

It's hard for me in a situation like that to say anything. I mean, the honest answer was "I don't know". But, I know from experience "I don't know" is an unacceptable answer to any question a woman asks. If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all. Which is exactly what I did. As honest as a question like that is, it doesn't change the fact that it made me feel cornered.

I know in the specific instance of my OP there are two answers and only two. Make a move or move along.

I'm just trying to get myself up to making a move. I like this chick (from my OP) a lot. I mean, it would go on my list of lifetime regrets if I don't make a move. I just wish I had gotten over a little more of my own s**t before meeting her.

Yeah, I know that feeling. Pushing that moment further and further out was the primary battle of my 20s. I'd be doing great and then suddenly I'd be stuck in the wrong gear. Repetition helped me.

As for your specific concern, all you can do is be honest. You don't have to be mean. She can take it or leave it (that can go unsaid).

Understanding what you mean more now.

She doesn't have to have aspie things in common with you to complement you or be a good companion.

What are her hobbies and interests?

When we've actually sat and talked, it's just generic talk. "Hey, how ya doin, etc, etc." We're locked in this dumb loop of probing but not really saying anything of value.

It's hard to explain in writing why I like her. You'd have to meet her to get it. Think of the nicest, kindest teacher you had -- it's that kind of vibe she projects. I rarely meet a person who I instantly like and instantly feel at ease with.

And I understand it from her end. She's done her part of the dance, signaled her behavior to the maximum extent that any NT woman can without lowering her self-esteem. Judging by the slight letdown look she has at the end of these little engagements, she's probably at the point where it is lowering her self-esteem a bit. It's on me to take that step and press further. I get all that.

It's not the first time I've been in this situation. Women have this thing where they try to make their interest obvious and then leave you an opening to then play out the man's part of the dance. I remember a girl in high school who got so frustrated she literally drew me a picture explaining it! Oh, and she did this on the rear chalkboard of home room on the last day of school our junior year in plain view of everyone. Talk about a moment where I really locked up.

It's s**t like that. I liked her. I knew the girl liked me way before she took a rather extreme step to force the issue. On the bright side, my punishment was spending senior year living with gay rumors, since what else could explain my behavior. Besides, if I hadn't had a stretch of gay rumors at some point in HS, I wouldn't fit in as a guy around here anyhow.

Invite her to hang out with you. No matter how awkward you may feel. It takes courage. Maybe get some alcoholic beverages to help break the ice, just don't go to a place that is very crowded or you can invite her out to a nature environment where you two can just hike and talk. Don't over think it. Don't script it. Just do it.

If that isn't an option. Write messages back and forth?

Do you freeze up more in person and writing your thoughts seems better for you?

Also, why do you go on the defense? Something must have happened in your life to spark that reaction. Having autism on top of certain things happening in your life can amplify that reaction.

As TheygoMew said, just jump. Soon. Or ask for her email sometime and ask her out in text.

She also might see you as more experienced than you are. After you are out (or have been) you might consider a well timed, "I like you but I'm not very good at this", or something similar. Give her a signal that your hesitation isn't disinterest. It's honest and sends a message.

It depends on what you mean by not very good. I'm not very good with LTRs. I'm actually pretty good with women in the early phase. Getting a woman (or really anyone) to like you isn't particularly hard. The hard part is dealing with life once a relationship starts to take form and the person you've impressed now starts to ask things of you, about you and about the future.



I only really freeze when I presented a scenario or question that just doesn't fit anywhere on the script. That's not an issue for me in the first phase, where you're simply saying hi. Where I freeze is when I'm put on the spot about what I expect from or what I see as a future for a relationship. If "I don't know" were an acceptable answer (it's really, really not) then I'd be OK.

I understand what those questions are about. A woman at a certain point with a guy has to sort out whether he's serious, whether he's playing her, whether he's mature enough, whether he has goals, etc. Those questions are meant to force a guy to clarify his position before she over-commits to a relationship. But, women, frankly, seem to like to throw these things at me fairly quickly. That's the stuff that makes me freeze.



Ho-ho-ho, if you knew what it was like for me growing up. My family was functioning dysfunctional. Which is sometimes worse, because if things just fall to s**t then the more negative interlopers eventually go away. I grew up with the view that anyone who ever expressed love toward you was up to something.

It was a loud environment. The prevailing view about every problem was "shut the f**k up" or "suck it up". Everyday was some as*hole wrecking someone's life out of craziness, stupidity or just plain boredom. I mostly just lurked in my bedroom and let the BS explode downstairs.

I know why I'm defensive. I take a dim view of anyone who thinks they have a place in my life. Frankly, if you met the other people who have a place in my life, you'd see the problem.

I've had a messed up childhood too. It didn't help being in a bad environment and having autism BUT, I've learned something in life.

What forgiveness really means. It isn't always just forgiving those that hurt you but what happens in your childhood lingers on into adulthood. I was put in some very bad situations. It made me very sad but I chose to not give in and turn into them. I realized I had PTSD and conquered it. That damage lingers. Once you are an adult, yeah it's still there but once you start to realize that over what others have done to you, you yourself are allowing it to continue and it's messing with you, as strange as this may be, you have to forgive yourself. They have imprinted you with negative energy. It drains you. It rears it's ugly head, it turns into a downward spiral and now even though THEY were the ones who did wrong, you are now doing wrong to yourself.

Forgive yourself. Others who hurt you aren't sorry. Some negative imprinters like to also give themselves pats on the back for molding you into whatever they wanted you to be.
Alot of children have been brought up in selfish homes. You are not alone. I will not go into what I've been through but I can't stand people who treat people who have been through alot in their childhood as "victims" or they try to victimize them all over again by calling them "damaged goods". Only bullies think like that or people who have had it easy.

If you have found alot of challenges in your life, overcome them. You don't know this woman. For all you know the reason you feel this connection with her is you two have more in common than you realize.

We all have energies.

Maybe she isn't really meant for romance. Maybe she can help you in some way and you can help her.

I've seen this strange instant connection before. Sometimes it's people who are so identical it's scary so they end up breaking away from each other. Sometimes they come back together but often not. If someone isn't over their painful past...that person will turn everything into an obstacle course making the other person do it all until the other person notices that and feels like it's some game or joke and leaves. May even turn surrounding people into obstacle blocks.

Your mind lies. The mind is subject to manipulation. Your heart and soul is more honest but our minds often refuse to listen because of our egos.

So forgive the pain that is left with you. People that did bad things to you but aren't really sorry, you have every right to defend yourself regardless of these psychiatric bullies and their rejection of will power. You don't have to repeat this cycle.

You are an adult now. You have way more control over your life than you did as a child.
Abusing her and humiliating her isn't going to stop your pain. It's just going to drive someone who likes you away.

You are deserving of happiness.