01 Jun 2006, 5:36 am
Hello;
First, I'd like to say: Thank you for this forum. I have read it from time to time, and I hope it can offer me some hope.
I'm not quite sure what to say. I feel like a visitor here (it must feel nice to you, because now I know what an Aspie must feel like at a gathering of NTs... a bit socially uncomfortable?!).
I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing, in other words. 
Ok so I will just start. I have been married for four years. My husband and I have had communication issues almost since our wedding. Actually, planning the wedding is when things began to come up which made me confused. I thought it was just that he was not interested in helping to plan our wedding - and chalked a lot of it up to that. But, the lack of willingness to talk about it, discuss and come up with a mutual solution to my concerns and his, should have been a red flag, I guess.
Ok so anyway. Long story short - cut to the present day. We are currently living apart. This is because he lives in his own bubble. Now a lot of my confusion has to do with the fact that although I highly suspect he has Aspergers, he refuses to discuss that or to see anyone who specialises in diagnosis. Which would be fine if he were single - but to me, marriage means considering the other person's wishes also and it means compromises. I have to compromise often, and try to meet him halfway. He doesn't seem interested in the same in return. Yet, when asked, he says he loves me and does not want a divorce.
Yet, he does not want to talk, touch, discuss, plan, have fun, go out of the apartment really, or do anything TOGETHER. So what is the point of being married, if it's really two people simply existing alone in the same apartment?
I notice that NTs are often termed as narcissistic or needy, here. May I simply offer that NTs need emotional bonding probably as much as Asperger syndrome folks need time alone?? We may seem needy to you, but, we are only driven to begging and drama when our needs have been denied for a long time. The same way an Aspie might have a meltdown (to use someone else's term here) if forced to socialise. NTs need a certain amount of feedback and reassurance, that they are loved, that they are valued, and a certain amount of quality time spent together with their loved one, or they begin to feel dejected, and eventually, desperate, the same way an Aspie might if forced to be overstimulated. So I guess I'm a bit hurt when I see so many posts which have a negative view of NTs just for being ourselves. Because if you want to be valued for who you are... well, so do we.
Ok so anyway.......
Here are the things which my husband exhibits which makes me wonder if he has Aspergers. He has OCD tendencies; those are mainly being very very uptight about spending money to the point we live like paupers although he makes a good salary. Also he has to have the same types of things and adores his routine down to the last detail. He is so concerned about money that he kept a diary of gas prices for years until his therapist (counselor not versed in Aspergers) gently said he could quit. Every time he got gas for his car, he would write down the place, date, and time.
His ways did not bother me - what bothers me is that he pushes me away and basically wants to ignore me all of the time (it's that type of thing that Im' sure makes some see NTs as needy). I am an introvert myself. I can even identify with some Aspie traits by the way, for myself. But, I think that if two people do not even acknowledge the other one's existence, then it is not a marriage. I told him many times, I feel like his roommate, not his wife. He just looked at me puzzled and then if I said it stronger he'd get very upset. My reaction if someone said such a thing to me would be "let's talk about it!" and to try to find a mutually satisfactory and mutually beneficial solution. He just becomes very nervous.
Anyway - more of the things which make me wonder if he is an Aspie (I dont know what else to call it so I hope that is not a bad word to use if I'm not Aspie myself). More things are, he has no need to socialise. This surprised me, because he has had roommates before, and people at his work like him. While we dated everyone told me what a great guy he is. He can 'schmooze' and talk when he wants to. He laughs, and seems to enjoy people. BUT once we got married, he resisted every chance to get together with others, even family. (He likes his family so it's not that he doesn't like them.) In fact he seems to like to do the contrary or opposite of my request whatever it might be. Such as, a month after our wedding, I told him I'd like to go out more and to spend time with him. I meant romantically. I thought I had made that clear. Instead of going out on a Saturday night date, though, he made a lunch date with a 94 yr old woman he knew. While I liked her, and she was very nice, etc., it was not what I had in mind, as a newlywed! Other than that we did not socialise with anyone except his one former roommate, and only at the restaurant he had long gone to before he met me. I liked it but it was not what I'd call a nice place, and I like variety, but again, he craves his routines. I think a spouse must meet the other spouse "halfway".
I'm sorry that I am rambling but I am tired and very stressed...
THe main thing that makes me wonder is, his resistance to change. I ask him why he wanted to marry anyone. He does not seem to want the relationship, conversation, romance, or any of the things one might expect from marriage, such as future plans, a home, children (though he said and still says he DOES, which I find confusing) and just a settled life. By the way I'm in my early 40s and he is almost 50! This is the first marriage for us both.
If I try to talk with him anyway... and I'm sorry but I get lonesome - we are so isolated, and he doesn't want to talk - he just wants to be on his computer all the time! he has a meltdown. I call it that to be blunt but it is accurate. he turns red, he might slap his own head, he might scratch his own head for 40 minutes at a time, he might repeat words when it makes no sense - like instead of letting me talk or responding to my question he will jsut keep repeating, "OK... OK. OK... OK. OK... OK." or something along that line.
Right now he's in a hotel for the past week. Rather than see it as a wake up call and a sign that things are in a serious disarray, he is getting used to being there! he does not even seem to mind. Same with before that, sleeping on the sofa. Most men would see that as being 'in the doghouse' (not in their wife's good graces), and try to make amends, or at least TALK about what might be wrong, or why their wife is upset. Not him!! He will do anything rather than deal with what I call "reality" and face our problems head-on, or talk and try to find a solution.
We tried marital counseling but he also does not tell the truth when there... he will spin his side of htings or leave things out, or flat-out lie. I get the feeling that he does not consider my feelings IMPORTANT, and so, therapy is a silly waste of time (he thinks) anyway. So it has not done us much good.
I realy don't know what to do.... Or even how to ask for help here. I thought MAYBE if I said a bit about my situation, that someone could ask ME more questions, and help me try to figure out - Is my husband an Aspie? How do I get him diagnosed (whether he is or is not)? We are in the Los Angeles area. I can't get him or his therapist to even discuss the possibility.
His hands shake, he sleeps all the time rather than tlak about anything, he cries a lot, he absolutely melts down for no apparent reason (usually if I am trying to discuss anything with him or else if we had a day out in public... just simply doing errands or what I would call FUN). If he is Aspie then I want to get him diagnosed and I want to find out more about it so I can stop expecting what he can't give, and to understand him better. But MOST of all so that he can understand himself.
Maybe if that happens we can stop tormenting each other!! !! ! Thank you for your time.... please be gentle with me My heart realy is in the right place. Please excuse my typos. As I said I am stressed and tired.
Meanwhile the split does not seem to be robbing him of any sleep! He has simply adjsuted to his "new" routine... meanwhile he cannot pay to stay in that hotel forever yet will not discuss "what next" - except he STILL says he does NOT want a divorce! He makes no sense to me.
His routine when single was down to the same exact food and motions every morning at the same times and same lunch daily and same dinner daily, and when we married he did not want me to leave the apartment alone, yet did not want to go anywhere (he was not like that when dating but we lived in separate cities so maybe he can pretend to be NT for short times?), and he even counted mileage on my car when I came home from an errand (I have never flirted or cheated on him). He is very miserly such as not installing a heater in our home (it gets cold even in L.A.) and balking at even buying enough food for two. Above all he seems happiest either when alone or in his own world at his computer.... all i ask is that he comes out of his bubble once in a while so that I can feel I am married to someone and not merely looking at them.
Thanks for reading.... I had to add a bit about his routines so you can tell me if he sounds Aspie or not. Oh and when younger he drank booze or such things to loosen up around others or to conquer test taking anxiety.
01 Jun 2006, 7:03 am
01 Jun 2006, 8:52 am
Thank you. I really appreciate your taking the time to reply. I was actually coming back here to delete most of my post because my spilling my thoughts out that way was a bit embarrassing in hindsight. Lol. I would have written a more coherent post after some rest, but, then again, I may not have had the courage to do so in the light of day either... I have been mulling over making that post for some time now!
When we got married I was 39; among my friends many are having children even up to 45. It's not ideal but in good health and with good nutrition I think it's not as risky as people once thought it was. As for me I didn't marry due to others' expectations (or I'd have married long before now - in my home town they mostly marry very young) but mainly due to wanting children and companionship in my old age (i.e. a spouse; I know kids will go do their own thing).
What puzzles me is why he'd say he wanted something he clearly either did not want, or did not think through very much (to examine if he wanted kids). He searched for a wife for three years (he said he set a goal he would marry at 40 and I think he just expected it to 'happen'; when it did not he tried to meet someone for 3 yrs. When he met me, he pursued me fairly doggedly and at the time it was flattering.)
I am introverted myself, so, I probably did not pursue things as I should have in life either but more went with who happened across my path (too passive/naive). (I think that is how I ended up marrying a person who I obviously didn't know so well!). That is a whole other story! (I see people on the boards speculate sometimes as to "who would marry an Aspie" so I thought I'd touch upon that. In my case, he did have qualities I liked, but also, I think I hadn't quite pursued my own goals before then. At the point I married I had given up on marrying, so it seemed like an end game goal point, if you know what I mean? LOL). Our courtship was fast. I think now that it's because another woman had broken up with him twice prior to his meeting me. He did really want to get married to someone. I just can't see why! Maybe he wanted to not be the only one unwed in his family in later life? I ask him and he says "I wanted a home and a family". Even when we dated by the way, he spoke of how he wanted to have a home and children etc. I believed what he said; I'm a bit naive about people in those ways. (Less so now than then!)
Anyway I see now that I didn't really appreciate how serious marriage is. I think I thought that if two people mean well and want things to work out they will find some way. I see now that misunderstanding and miscommunication can lead to all sorts of problems. Even if both people have good intentions.
I would not get divorced based upon anyone's advice, and not without a lot of prior thinking upon it, so it's OK. Please don't feel guilty or responsible if I later post that we did divorce. It doesn't seem likely in the near future though, as I think any major change at the current time would cause him to have a major breakdown. Or maybe I am flattering myself. Because it does seem he adjusts to anything after a while. Maybe he would seem upset at first but once he got into his rut as a divorced man he would like that too.
What confuses me is he can be very detached but at other times have an expression of rage or fear that is extreme (to me). But for instance he assisted at his mother's deathbed and his siblings were very tearful and could not bear to be in the room at that time but it did not bother him. Even when he came home (this happened out of state - he wanted to travel there alone, typically - although I wanted to be at his side during that important time), he was not sad or tearful or grieving. (He did not even seem as if something sad had just happened.) I'm not sure whether his outbursts of rage or fear (currently) or just sort of not making sense are repressed grief, or if it's something else. They could be totally unconnected to his mother's passing. His 'meltdowns' seem to come at the end of the day most of the time. They seem keyed ino a series of small frustrations. Or 'doing too much' (which for me is just 'fun stuff'). I think he likes to lock things down into very rote schedules (and to do most things alone). For instance, I've been ill a while, and my ever-changing dietary restrictions/needs drive him round the bend. He wants me to eat the same thing every day as he likes to, and I just can't. I begin to develop allergies/food sensitivity to things if I do.
The final thing (for now, ha) is, I seem to make him miserable... he seems much happier if I leave him alone (don't talk to him, unless it is a topic he likes then he will talk a lot almost in a loud monologue) or if he is about to be alone or do something without me. That would be fine if we ever did things together too - maybe once every few months we will leave the house to do something small together! So I dont know why if he's happier alone that he wants to stay married? To me that makes no sense.
Oh and back to having kids or not. I had also suggested we look into adoption, perhaps of school age child or children (I did think about the age differences too; and adopting older children seemed to be a reasonable solution). He did not even want to discuss it. It isn't as if he was opinionated against it. He simply saw no need to talk about it because it isn't what he wanted. No more attachment to saying no with a shrug than if I had asked him if he wanted a pizza. To me the idea was important so it's hard to think that he cares. Yet he says he does. All I can think is we must not be speaking the same language. If he would just meet me halfway on things very important to me - and/or communicate what and how he is feeling at least half of the time - things would feel very different to me. (I'm INFP so I tend to use the word "feel" a lot, LOL).
Again thanks for your time and for being so nice to a newcomer
01 Jun 2006, 9:11 am
Popsicle
I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why you married him. Nevermind.
Aspies like things spelled out for them exactly. So to say "you feel like his room mate not his wife" will not make much sense to him since you are actually married. If you could be more specific, like "When you ignore me when I get home and you don't greet me by saying hello and asking me how my day was (and then listening, and then telling me about yours), I feel like you don't care about me and that makes me feel sad. If it happens many days in a row I feel miserable."
When you talk - I guess you talk about feelings and you're not very specific about actual events that make you feel bad or good so he gets confused and then very reluctant to be in these "talks" because all that happens is you get sad and frustrated and he gets confused. I think that the instant he does something you find hurtful, you need to say, "I feel hurt when you do that, because it makes me feel like you don't care about my feelings, could you do this instead please". Also tell him when he does something that makes you feel good.
Maybe explain about taking turns and sharing - ie when you go to the restaurant he likes, the next time you want to go to the restaurant you like, because married people are supposed to care about what the other spouse wants. And explaining that if he wants children, he actually has to, um, have sex with you. And that involves touching, and you're willing to go step by step with him so it is how you like, no pressure. But no sex means no babies and both ideas make you miserable again. You, at 40, have zero time to wait around on this one.
His fibbing to the marriage counsellor doesn't seem very aspie to me. It is hard for us to tell lies. But his complete denial of anything less than perfection is quite aspie. If he is perfectionist as well as aspie, anything that is not perfect is going to be buried deep with profound shame, rather than faced.
If he actually makes an effort to do any tiny weeny thing that you like - praise him lavishly and over the top - even if it feels corny to you, it's one thing that works. Bitching at him when he isn't looking after you will have the opposite effect of what you want. If you do want him to do something for you, be polite but don't make the request "optional", don't say "if you feel like it", or "when you get time" or any fluffy polite stuff like that. Just say "please vaccuum the floor before lunch time" or whatever it is that you want. If you want a fancy date, be very specific about what that means exactly and what day you want to do it and that it's you and him and no additional guests. Ideally, you book the restaurant, and organise getting there. Since he likes routine, make it a regular Friday night thing, every second Friday you go to his restaurant, and every other Friday, he goes to the one you like. I don't think one date a week is too much to ask. If expenses are a problem, organise Saturday picnics somewhere free like a park in good weather and a museum in crap weather.
You could try getting your own computer, getting him to hook it up to the home network and internet, and then using your computer to talk to him. He may actually find that easier - some aspies/autistic people do. It might be bizarre but if it works, it would be worth it.
There is nothing stopping you from assuming he's aspie and getting hold of some aspie relationship books, and using the strategies suggested in those. Because they are usually very specific and direct, they'd probably work well for most men, aspie or not.
My dad kept track of the car fuel, he said it was so we'd know if the tank sprung a leak and so we could plan long trips ie we'd know how much fuel was needed for trips with different kinds of roads - ie if you're planning to make a trip that is 1500km between fill ups and your car only does 1000km between fill ups, you need to know how much extra fuel to carry. Accordingly, I also keep records and I do find them useful. And I'm the same age as you, and female. It seems perfectly sensible and practical to me. 
Stuff you might find helpful
http://www.aspires-relationships.com/as_grows_up_traits_by_age.htm
Note this page says there are a few aspies that do learn to lie - a lot - as a matter of survival, it happens.
The tony attwood home page - especially the page on relationships and sexuality - contains a list of books that may help.
http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/
01 Jun 2006, 9:50 am
01 Jun 2006, 10:03 am
01 Jun 2006, 10:16 am
01 Jun 2006, 10:17 am
01 Jun 2006, 10:51 am
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01 Jun 2006, 11:40 am
01 Jun 2006, 11:55 am
04 Jun 2006, 6:45 am
04 Jun 2006, 7:28 am
04 Jun 2006, 8:03 am
04 Jun 2006, 9:23 pm
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