Its just so frustrating
28 Apr 2018, 4:06 pm
Its just so frustrating when I want, more than anything, to feel emotional validation from women, but nobody even knows it. Combination of the assumptions that guys are just after sex and that autistics don't have feelings invalidates in people's minds a possibility that I want women despite the fact that I don't want sex (as a Christian I don't believe in sex before marriage) and I actually have very strong unfulfilled emotional needs (despite the fact that, due to Asperger, I am not supposed to).
Even if you take Christianity aside, quite frankly I don't understand why do guys obsess with sex on the first place. To me it seems like physical things (be it sex, or food, or music) are minuscule in comparison to emotional things (love, validation, social status, career, etc) I realize that "social status" one is shallow, but I am being honest here: yes I obsess about my social status, and if you tell me its shallow I won't get mad: at least we are on the same page. But if you are going to tell me that I am after sex, when I know for a fact that I am not, or if you tell me that due to my Asperger I don't have feelings, when I know for a fact that I do, that I find so super frustrating. If I didn't have feelings, why would I be typing this post?! I know people don't like whiners (and thats how I put them off) but once again: go ahead and call me a whiner, at least we would be on the same page. But don't tell me I have no feelings about the exact thing I am whining about!! ! How is it even possible to whine about something I don't feel?!
But still, there ARE guys who go to all those incredible lengths to get sex. As much as it makes zero sense its a fact. So why do they do it? I guess their life is perfect, they have absolutely no worries or hurts, so they can afford to obsess about sex. But then comes someone like me, who actually has real emotional needs and hurts, and all of them are being overlooked due to those idiots.
And going back to my social status comment, I suspect I care about social status in a very different way than most people. When I say I care about social status I mean that I want to recover from my inferior social status to the average, through having a girlfriend. But when others think of social status, they are wanting to preserve status quo. So they actually want to keep me inferior all because I am "supposed to be" inferior. And that I find super frustrating. In fact I think it should be the opposite: people that are popular will do just fine without becoming even more popular, but people that are unpopular, those are the ones that need to become popular in order to rescue their self worth. But people don't get it. People just put unpopular people down even more.
In any case, I think unpopular people need their social status raised, having a girlfriend would be a great way of doing so, and that is FAR more important than having sex.
Oh one mroe thing: there was one girl I talked to who understood what I said, but then she said it means that I wanted to use her. Well thats another misunderstanding. If I am that miserable without a girl, why on earth would I ever want to get back to that misery by dumping her?! I know FOR A FACT that if I were to get a girl I would be infinitely greatful to her for rescuing me from my misery, I would never, in a million years, dump her!! ! You know who is more likely to dump her? Someone popular, since they don't have that desperate need that I do. But nobody seems to get it.
28 Apr 2018, 4:35 pm
Luhluhluh wrote:
Okay so here's how I read this:
1. You want a trophy girlfriend to lift your social status. BUT
2. You don't want to have sex with her.
Did I read that correctly?
1. You want a trophy girlfriend to lift your social status. BUT
2. You don't want to have sex with her.
Did I read that correctly?
Contrary to popular opinion about people with Asperger, I am not all black or white -- but I can sound this way due to the fact that I tend to over-emphasize some points that I feel others aren't getting.
This being said, my emotional needs are complex. Part of them is validation in front of others (plural). But the other part is feeling supported by my girlfriend, independently of what others think of our relationship. If I look back at the time when I was in a relationship, no I wasn't trying to show off my girlfriend (as a matter of fact, I came to regret that I didn't take my then-girlfriend to a Bible study). The reason I didn't do it is that the emotional connection I had with my girlfriend took care of my emotional needs, so I didn't have a need to any extra validation from taking her to Bible study and so forth; but right now that I am single I am like "wait a second, why didn't I take her to Bible study?!"
In any case, the point I am trying to make is that my emotional needs are probably some kind of combination of multiple things that, on the grand scheme of things, might well be perfectly normal; but when those emotional needs go unfulfilled for years, thats when I start dealing with frustration in not-so-normal way, that causes me to overfocus on things and sound the way I sounded in this post.
Its true, however, that my reasons for having a girlfriend are mostly emotional (whichever those emotions might be) and it is very painful when people assume that I don't have emotions, which is what probably keeps me single.
28 Apr 2018, 5:42 pm
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Contrary to popular opinion about people with Asperger, I am not all black or white -- but I can sound this way due to the fact that I tend to over-emphasize some points that I feel others aren't getting.
This being said, my emotional needs are complex. Part of them is validation in front of others (plural). But the other part is feeling supported by my girlfriend, independently of what others think of our relationship. If I look back at the time when I was in a relationship, no I wasn't trying to show off my girlfriend (as a matter of fact, I came to regret that I didn't take my then-girlfriend to a Bible study). The reason I didn't do it is that the emotional connection I had with my girlfriend took care of my emotional needs, so I didn't have a need to any extra validation from taking her to Bible study and so forth; but right now that I am single I am like "wait a second, why didn't I take her to Bible study?!"
In any case, the point I am trying to make is that my emotional needs are probably some kind of combination of multiple things that, on the grand scheme of things, might well be perfectly normal; but when those emotional needs go unfulfilled for years, thats when I start dealing with frustration in not-so-normal way, that causes me to overfocus on things and sound the way I sounded in this post.
Its true, however, that my reasons for having a girlfriend are mostly emotional (whichever those emotions might be) and it is very painful when people assume that I don't have emotions, which is what probably keeps me single.
This being said, my emotional needs are complex. Part of them is validation in front of others (plural). But the other part is feeling supported by my girlfriend, independently of what others think of our relationship. If I look back at the time when I was in a relationship, no I wasn't trying to show off my girlfriend (as a matter of fact, I came to regret that I didn't take my then-girlfriend to a Bible study). The reason I didn't do it is that the emotional connection I had with my girlfriend took care of my emotional needs, so I didn't have a need to any extra validation from taking her to Bible study and so forth; but right now that I am single I am like "wait a second, why didn't I take her to Bible study?!"
In any case, the point I am trying to make is that my emotional needs are probably some kind of combination of multiple things that, on the grand scheme of things, might well be perfectly normal; but when those emotional needs go unfulfilled for years, thats when I start dealing with frustration in not-so-normal way, that causes me to overfocus on things and sound the way I sounded in this post.
Its true, however, that my reasons for having a girlfriend are mostly emotional (whichever those emotions might be) and it is very painful when people assume that I don't have emotions, which is what probably keeps me single.
So in your view, what do you think is the biggest problem you are facing when it comes to dating?
_________________
That which does not kill us makes us stranger.
28 Apr 2018, 5:55 pm
Luhluhluh wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Contrary to popular opinion about people with Asperger, I am not all black or white -- but I can sound this way due to the fact that I tend to over-emphasize some points that I feel others aren't getting.
This being said, my emotional needs are complex. Part of them is validation in front of others (plural). But the other part is feeling supported by my girlfriend, independently of what others think of our relationship. If I look back at the time when I was in a relationship, no I wasn't trying to show off my girlfriend (as a matter of fact, I came to regret that I didn't take my then-girlfriend to a Bible study). The reason I didn't do it is that the emotional connection I had with my girlfriend took care of my emotional needs, so I didn't have a need to any extra validation from taking her to Bible study and so forth; but right now that I am single I am like "wait a second, why didn't I take her to Bible study?!"
In any case, the point I am trying to make is that my emotional needs are probably some kind of combination of multiple things that, on the grand scheme of things, might well be perfectly normal; but when those emotional needs go unfulfilled for years, thats when I start dealing with frustration in not-so-normal way, that causes me to overfocus on things and sound the way I sounded in this post.
Its true, however, that my reasons for having a girlfriend are mostly emotional (whichever those emotions might be) and it is very painful when people assume that I don't have emotions, which is what probably keeps me single.
This being said, my emotional needs are complex. Part of them is validation in front of others (plural). But the other part is feeling supported by my girlfriend, independently of what others think of our relationship. If I look back at the time when I was in a relationship, no I wasn't trying to show off my girlfriend (as a matter of fact, I came to regret that I didn't take my then-girlfriend to a Bible study). The reason I didn't do it is that the emotional connection I had with my girlfriend took care of my emotional needs, so I didn't have a need to any extra validation from taking her to Bible study and so forth; but right now that I am single I am like "wait a second, why didn't I take her to Bible study?!"
In any case, the point I am trying to make is that my emotional needs are probably some kind of combination of multiple things that, on the grand scheme of things, might well be perfectly normal; but when those emotional needs go unfulfilled for years, thats when I start dealing with frustration in not-so-normal way, that causes me to overfocus on things and sound the way I sounded in this post.
Its true, however, that my reasons for having a girlfriend are mostly emotional (whichever those emotions might be) and it is very painful when people assume that I don't have emotions, which is what probably keeps me single.
So in your view, what do you think is the biggest problem you are facing when it comes to dating?
First impressions, that make it hard to get people to talk to me in general (men and women) and being a loner is what ultimately makes it hard to date.
I think first impressions are due to things like messy hair, wrinkled clothes, carrying around my backpack full of books, voice that is naturally loud and monotone, always being by myself (that one is feedback cycle since being by myself makes people less likely to talk to me), not recognizing people's names and faces (so when I come across the people that I know on the street I don't say hi because I don't recognize them, but they think I don't want to talk; or if they do say hi, and I ask them to remind me who they are, they think that its my way of saying I dont' want to tlak, while in fact I do want to talk so I want to know who they are so that I can talk), also I avoid being in my office because it hurts me to see my officemates talk to others but not me, but this might ultimately be the reason why it happens (another circular thing), also I am 38 years old so the fact that I am still single makes people think I am undatable, and when I mention my ex-s they assume those are imaginary girlfriends because I am single now in this late age, plus all those other unpleasant things about me I just described.
But, be it as it may, I am doing my second ph.d. (my first ph.d. is in physics, the second is in math). I am sure people in the grocery store would never guess that, they probably think I am homeless (the fact that a lot of homeless people live in this area probably doesn't help). I guess I could just try to spend more time in my office -- I mean nobody in my department think I am homeless since they all know who I am -- but once again then I am faced with an issue of my officemate talking to others more than to me.
28 Apr 2018, 6:19 pm
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
First impressions, that make it hard to get people to talk to me in general (men and women) and being a loner is what ultimately makes it hard to date.
I think first impressions are due to things like messy hair, wrinkled clothes, carrying around my backpack full of books, voice that is naturally loud and monotone, always being by myself (that one is feedback cycle since being by myself makes people less likely to talk to me), not recognizing people's names and faces (so when I come across the people that I know on the street I don't say hi because I don't recognize them, but they think I don't want to talk; or if they do say hi, and I ask them to remind me who they are, they think that its my way of saying I dont' want to tlak, while in fact I do want to talk so I want to know who they are so that I can talk), also I avoid being in my office because it hurts me to see my officemates talk to others but not me, but this might ultimately be the reason why it happens (another circular thing), also I am 38 years old so the fact that I am still single makes people think I am undatable, and when I mention my ex-s they assume those are imaginary girlfriends because I am single now in this late age, plus all those other unpleasant things about me I just described.
But, be it as it may, I am doing my second ph.d. (my first ph.d. is in physics, the second is in math). I am sure people in the grocery store would never guess that, they probably think I am homeless (the fact that a lot of homeless people live in this area probably doesn't help). I guess I could just try to spend more time in my office -- I mean nobody in my department think I am homeless since they all know who I am -- but once again then I am faced with an issue of my officemate talking to others more than to me.
I think first impressions are due to things like messy hair, wrinkled clothes, carrying around my backpack full of books, voice that is naturally loud and monotone, always being by myself (that one is feedback cycle since being by myself makes people less likely to talk to me), not recognizing people's names and faces (so when I come across the people that I know on the street I don't say hi because I don't recognize them, but they think I don't want to talk; or if they do say hi, and I ask them to remind me who they are, they think that its my way of saying I dont' want to tlak, while in fact I do want to talk so I want to know who they are so that I can talk), also I avoid being in my office because it hurts me to see my officemates talk to others but not me, but this might ultimately be the reason why it happens (another circular thing), also I am 38 years old so the fact that I am still single makes people think I am undatable, and when I mention my ex-s they assume those are imaginary girlfriends because I am single now in this late age, plus all those other unpleasant things about me I just described.
But, be it as it may, I am doing my second ph.d. (my first ph.d. is in physics, the second is in math). I am sure people in the grocery store would never guess that, they probably think I am homeless (the fact that a lot of homeless people live in this area probably doesn't help). I guess I could just try to spend more time in my office -- I mean nobody in my department think I am homeless since they all know who I am -- but once again then I am faced with an issue of my officemate talking to others more than to me.
So then, are you able to pay more attention to things like brushing/combing your hair before you go out? Making sure your clothes are clean and not wrinkled? Making an effort to control the tone and volume of your voice?
I don't think anyone doubts that you, as a human being, need emotional and social validation. We are social creatures. I think the problem is that it is difficult to step outside of ourselves and see ourselves as OTHERS see us. If other people see someone who is messy, closed off, doesn't make eye contact, etc., it's most likely that their first thought is that this is someone they should avoid for one reason or another (he's unfriendly, he's not interested, whatever). If there are things you can work on, you should try to do that. I don't think anyone thinks you don't need emotional validation; they might just think you don't want it.
_________________
That which does not kill us makes us stranger.
28 Apr 2018, 9:55 pm
Luhluhluh wrote:
I don't think anyone thinks you don't need emotional validation; they might just think you don't want it.
Don't you think there is a contradiction in that sentence I just quoted?
I am not picking at you by the way, rather I am pointing out the contradictory judgement that everyone seems to be making. Another illustration of that contradiction is an assertion that "you can't be happy with someone unless you are happy with yourself first". It almost sounds like "you can't lift 10 pounds unless you can lift 50 pounds first": I mean, from my perspective it is so much easier to be happy that I am in a relationship than to be happy all by myself, so why are they thinking its the opposite.
And this of course seems similar to the other contradiction in that part of your reply I quoted. So perhaps you are more equipped to explain what you have written yourself (that I need validation yet I don't want it) and that would touch upon other things I am confused about.
And here is another question: why do they assume that if my clothes are wrinkled up then I don't want social validation? The only connection I am thinking of is this: if my clothes are wrinkly, then I am autistic, and since I am autistic I don't want validation (the latter is an autism stereotype others seem to have but I strongly disagree with it). So sometimes I think that autism awarenness is to blame for it.
Anyway, thats my opinion, but what do you think: What would have happened if people haven't heard of autism? Would they also conclude that if my clothes are wrinkly I don't want social validation? Why or why not?
29 Apr 2018, 12:56 am
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Its just so frustrating when I want, more than anything, to feel emotional validation from women, but nobody even knows it. Combination of the assumptions that guys are just after sex and that autistics don't have feelings invalidates in people's minds a possibility that I want women despite the fact that I don't want sex (as a Christian I don't believe in sex before marriage) and I actually have very strong unfulfilled emotional needs (despite the fact that, due to Asperger, I am not supposed to).
How do you know what other people are assuming? Have they told you as much or are you just assuming what they're assuming?
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Even if you take Christianity aside, quite frankly I don't understand why do guys obsess with sex on the first place.
Well those that do likely do so because they find it pleasurable and because they can. Sex can serve as a form of validation too. It's a bit like asking why people play sports or watch movies, and the answer is because they find enjoyment in those things. Relationships and sex aren't an 'either or' dichotomy. Sometimes people pursue friends with benefits simply because they haven't found a relationship at that point in time.
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
if you tell me that due to my Asperger I don't have feelings, when I know for a fact that I do, that I find so super frustrating. If I didn't have feelings, why would I be typing this post?!
No one here is going to tell you that. Those few who aren't on the spectrum themselves here know enough about the condition that they realise the insinuation that autistics don't have feelings or social needs is ridiculous.
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
But still, there ARE guys who go to all those incredible lengths to get sex. As much as it makes zero sense its a fact. So why do they do it? I guess their life is perfect, they have absolutely no worries or hurts, so they can afford to obsess about sex.
Incredible lengths like what? Asking to hook up with someone on tinder?
Why would you go on to assume that somebody's life is perfect just because they don't have the same priorities as you and want to have sex?
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
When I say I care about social status I mean that I want to recover from my inferior social status to the average, through having a girlfriend.
If you think having a girlfriend is going to have some profound impact on other areas of your social life, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Having a girlfriend isn't going to draw people to you who otherwise wouldn't bother talking to you, and thinking of a girlfriend as a way to boost your social status as a foundation for a relationship is an excellent way to ensure it fails before it even starts.
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
In fact I think it should be the opposite: people that are popular will do just fine without becoming even more popular, but people that are unpopular, those are the ones that need to become popular in order to rescue their self worth. But people don't get it. People just put unpopular people down even more.
People pursue their own self-interest, in lieu of what you might think is fair. People who are popular are popular for a reason, and likewise there are reasons why someone might be unpopular. In any case imo the whole popularity contest thing should be confined to high school where it belongs. Try to meet people you get along with and can do things with and whether or not certain other people perceive you to be popular or unpopular is largely inconsequential.
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
If I am that miserable without a girl, why on earth would I ever want to get back to that misery by dumping her?! I know FOR A FACT that if I were to get a girl I would be infinitely greatful to her for rescuing me from my misery, I would never, in a million years, dump her!! ! You know who is more likely to dump her? Someone popular, since they don't have that desperate need that I do. But nobody seems to get it.
What if you don't end up getting on or have nothing to talk about? What if she's a user? What if she's physically or emotionally abusive? What if she cheats on you? What if she expects you to do everything while she lazes around the house? What if she doesn't end up satisfying you as a girlfriend?
To say that your never dump someone in a million years is easy when you're not with that person, but for all you know that person could end up making your quality of life worse, you could end up being incompatible, etc. What if she had an expectation of sex before marriage?
29 Apr 2018, 1:18 am
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Even if you take Christianity aside, quite frankly I don't understand why do guys obsess with sex on the first place. To me it seems like physical things (be it sex, or food, or music) are minuscule in comparison to emotional things (love, validation, social status, career, etc)
Obviously things like food are only minuscule if you have enough of it. As for sex, it's hopefully not as important to anyone as not starving but some people have a stronger sex drive than others. You'll find other single men on this site that are like you mostly focused on the emotional aspect and others that are frustrated by a lack of sex. If you don't want sex at all and never did you are probably asexual, which is not the norm and therefore your feelings about this will differ from that of most other people.
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
...When I say I care about social status I mean that I want to recover from my inferior social status to the average, through having a girlfriend...
...Oh one mroe thing: there was one girl I talked to who understood what I said, but then she said it means that I wanted to use her. Well thats another misunderstanding. If I am that miserable without a girl, why on earth would I ever want to get back to that misery by dumping her?! I know FOR A FACT that if I were to get a girl I would be infinitely greatful to her for rescuing me from my misery, I would never, in a million years, dump her!! ! You know who is more likely to dump her? Someone popular, since they don't have that desperate need that I do. But nobody seems to get it.
...Oh one mroe thing: there was one girl I talked to who understood what I said, but then she said it means that I wanted to use her. Well thats another misunderstanding. If I am that miserable without a girl, why on earth would I ever want to get back to that misery by dumping her?! I know FOR A FACT that if I were to get a girl I would be infinitely greatful to her for rescuing me from my misery, I would never, in a million years, dump her!! ! You know who is more likely to dump her? Someone popular, since they don't have that desperate need that I do. But nobody seems to get it.
Did she say you wanted to use her or that you'd dump her. That's two different things.
The first sentence in the quote is likely why she said you wanted to use her and why Luhluhluh read your post as wanting a trophy girlfriend.
If the relationship is all about social status it is all about you and what strangers think about you. It is not about her. Her personality and everything that makes her her is not important as long as it serves the purpose of making a good impression on others. If that's how you came across to her (even if it in reality may not be the only reason why you want a relationship) then you came across as wanting to use her because the relationship would not be about you and her but about you and what other people think of you. Trophy girlfriend also always suggests that he will dump her if a better trophy (a woman that is better for increasing his social status) comes along. If she said you'd dump her she probably thought so because she assumed all you want is a trophy girlfriend.
29 Apr 2018, 2:04 am
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Luhluhluh wrote:
I don't think anyone thinks you don't need emotional validation; they might just think you don't want it.
Don't you think there is a contradiction in that sentence I just quoted?
She's not saying that you don't want emotional validation but that people in real life might think so. If you avoid other people in real life or avoid eye contact or otherwise avoid interacting with them these people will assume you don't want to interact with them and if they assume you don't want to interact with them they may also assume you don't want emotional validation or at least they're not going to bother.
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
And here is another question: why do they assume that if my clothes are wrinkled up then I don't want social validation? The only connection I am thinking of is this: if my clothes are wrinkly, then I am autistic, and since I am autistic I don't want validation (the latter is an autism stereotype others seem to have but I strongly disagree with it). So sometimes I think that autism awarenness is to blame for it.
Honestly, taking care of your appearance would help more with increasing your social status than getting a girlfriend would. If no one told a person you are autistic and you are not doing something stereotypical, like very obvious stimming in public, they probably can't figure out that you are autistic. If you look unkempt they'll assume there's something wrong with you though (e.g. homeless if they don't know any better). I'd guess that what keeps strangers away from you might be your appearance. For your work colleagues it's probably more complicated. I've known an a bit unkempt university professor who did just fine socially, therefore I assume clothing and hairstyle is not enough to be an outcast. You listed somewhere above the reasons why they don't want to interact with you or why they may think you don't want to interact with them. Some of these things might be more difficult to change.
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Anyway, thats my opinion, but what do you think: What would have happened if people haven't heard of autism? Would they also conclude that if my clothes are wrinkly I don't want social validation? Why or why not?
Yes. Although some of them may not actually think about whether you want social validation or not either way. Wrinkled clothing doesn't allow others to tell that you are autistic. It just comes off as 'there's something wrong with that person' and they might avoid that person without knowing what this 'something wrong' is or they are taking a guess and it may not be autism.
Your social problems don't seem to be limited to clothing either (unless you are very unhygienic clothing and hair alone desn't make you a social outcast, but they contribute to the problem). Inability to recognize faces as well as avoiding others (and thereby reinforcing their belief that you don't want to interact with them) are contributing factors.
29 Apr 2018, 2:57 am
I'm so tired of this "I don't want sex, so I'm a good guy"...
First of all, 90% of guys who say this, are either lying or delusional.
Second of all, even if it's actually true, I fail to see how this makes one a good person.
It seems to me, it's something some guys say because they have nothing else to offer, so they use this as a clutch to get to feel some kind of false superiority.
Get over yourself mate.
29 Apr 2018, 3:21 am
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Its just so frustrating when I want, more than anything, to feel emotional validation from women, but nobody even knows it. Combination of the assumptions that guys are just after sex and that autistics don't have feelings invalidates in people's minds a possibility that I want women despite the fact that I don't want sex (as a Christian I don't believe in sex before marriage) and I actually have very strong unfulfilled emotional needs (despite the fact that, due to Asperger, I am not supposed to).
Even if you take Christianity aside, quite frankly I don't understand why do guys obsess with sex on the first place. To me it seems like physical things (be it sex, or food, or music) are minuscule in comparison to emotional things (love, validation, social status, career, etc) I realize that "social status" one is shallow, but I am being honest here: yes I obsess about my social status, and if you tell me its shallow I won't get mad: at least we are on the same page. But if you are going to tell me that I am after sex, when I know for a fact that I am not, or if you tell me that due to my Asperger I don't have feelings, when I know for a fact that I do, that I find so super frustrating. If I didn't have feelings, why would I be typing this post?! I know people don't like whiners (and thats how I put them off) but once again: go ahead and call me a whiner, at least we would be on the same page. But don't tell me I have no feelings about the exact thing I am whining about!! ! How is it even possible to whine about something I don't feel?!
But still, there ARE guys who go to all those incredible lengths to get sex. As much as it makes zero sense its a fact. So why do they do it? I guess their life is perfect, they have absolutely no worries or hurts, so they can afford to obsess about sex. But then comes someone like me, who actually has real emotional needs and hurts, and all of them are being overlooked due to those idiots.
And going back to my social status comment, I suspect I care about social status in a very different way than most people. When I say I care about social status I mean that I want to recover from my inferior social status to the average, through having a girlfriend. But when others think of social status, they are wanting to preserve status quo. So they actually want to keep me inferior all because I am "supposed to be" inferior. And that I find super frustrating. In fact I think it should be the opposite: people that are popular will do just fine without becoming even more popular, but people that are unpopular, those are the ones that need to become popular in order to rescue their self worth. But people don't get it. People just put unpopular people down even more.
In any case, I think unpopular people need their social status raised, having a girlfriend would be a great way of doing so, and that is FAR more important than having sex.
Oh one mroe thing: there was one girl I talked to who understood what I said, but then she said it means that I wanted to use her. Well thats another misunderstanding. If I am that miserable without a girl, why on earth would I ever want to get back to that misery by dumping her?! I know FOR A FACT that if I were to get a girl I would be infinitely greatful to her for rescuing me from my misery, I would never, in a million years, dump her!! ! You know who is more likely to dump her? Someone popular, since they don't have that desperate need that I do. But nobody seems to get it.
Even if you take Christianity aside, quite frankly I don't understand why do guys obsess with sex on the first place. To me it seems like physical things (be it sex, or food, or music) are minuscule in comparison to emotional things (love, validation, social status, career, etc) I realize that "social status" one is shallow, but I am being honest here: yes I obsess about my social status, and if you tell me its shallow I won't get mad: at least we are on the same page. But if you are going to tell me that I am after sex, when I know for a fact that I am not, or if you tell me that due to my Asperger I don't have feelings, when I know for a fact that I do, that I find so super frustrating. If I didn't have feelings, why would I be typing this post?! I know people don't like whiners (and thats how I put them off) but once again: go ahead and call me a whiner, at least we would be on the same page. But don't tell me I have no feelings about the exact thing I am whining about!! ! How is it even possible to whine about something I don't feel?!
But still, there ARE guys who go to all those incredible lengths to get sex. As much as it makes zero sense its a fact. So why do they do it? I guess their life is perfect, they have absolutely no worries or hurts, so they can afford to obsess about sex. But then comes someone like me, who actually has real emotional needs and hurts, and all of them are being overlooked due to those idiots.
And going back to my social status comment, I suspect I care about social status in a very different way than most people. When I say I care about social status I mean that I want to recover from my inferior social status to the average, through having a girlfriend. But when others think of social status, they are wanting to preserve status quo. So they actually want to keep me inferior all because I am "supposed to be" inferior. And that I find super frustrating. In fact I think it should be the opposite: people that are popular will do just fine without becoming even more popular, but people that are unpopular, those are the ones that need to become popular in order to rescue their self worth. But people don't get it. People just put unpopular people down even more.
In any case, I think unpopular people need their social status raised, having a girlfriend would be a great way of doing so, and that is FAR more important than having sex.
Oh one mroe thing: there was one girl I talked to who understood what I said, but then she said it means that I wanted to use her. Well thats another misunderstanding. If I am that miserable without a girl, why on earth would I ever want to get back to that misery by dumping her?! I know FOR A FACT that if I were to get a girl I would be infinitely greatful to her for rescuing me from my misery, I would never, in a million years, dump her!! ! You know who is more likely to dump her? Someone popular, since they don't have that desperate need that I do. But nobody seems to get it.
I understand your desire for a female companion. Such desire is valid, but I think you have to understand some things.
1. We do not exist to be a status symbol or a certificate of validity for you. Those things are objects. Women are people.
2. We are not saviors or goddesses. We are people.
3. There are situations in which you should dump your partner. For example, abusive relationships, patterns of lying and infidelity, inherent incompatibility and so on.
4. A person who would never dump a partner under any circumstance is a person who's relationship is self serving and superficial. The other person is being used as a crutch and not being perceived as a person. People should have mutual compatibility and compatible goals in life, standards for themselves and their partner, and should also hold their partner accountable for themselves.
5. Most people tend to find desperate people unattractive with respect to dating for a variety of reasons, some of which I have already illustrated.
29 Apr 2018, 3:54 am
Like I mentioned in the other reply, if I say status is one of hte reasons it doesn't mean its the only reason. What I want, more than anything, is an emotional validation. Let me bring you an example of it that has nothing to do with status. When I overhear two girls in the library studying together, both stressed about their exam, what makes it all better is that they are there for each other, on the same boat so to speak. There is something about their voice, the fact that its quiet and soothing, that sort of conveys that kind of emotional bond, and I really wish I was one of them. So you see, they can't use each other as a trophy since presumably they are straight and presumably they aren't dating, but there is something about that bond that I crave. Sometimes I wish I was a girl for that exact reason; but if I am a guy then I want to have a girlfriend since that would be the only other way of having a female attention that I crave without worrying as to whether she is dating someone.
Now, one reason I talk about status is that people with low status are perceived as not fully human -- which is the reason why I don't get that kind of emotional support I just described. But then again, if just ONE woman were to know I am fully human, maybe SHE would provide all the validation I need, and I would be able to accept more easily that others don't see me as fully human, since I would be able to just go hide in her room, cry on her shoulder, and get HER support. Still, for the obvious reasons, it is better if others were to see me as fully human too, thats why I am saying that using her to raise my social status IS important, its just not the main thing.
And no I am not contradicting myself. I have several emotional things that are important. Status is one of them, emotional support is the other one. I was just overfocusing on status in my first post but in reality it is a combination of both.
Let me give you a real life illustration of what it is that bothers me about the way others perceive me, and how it can change if they see me with a girlfriend. So I am doing my second Ph.D., in New Mexico, in Math. I did my first Ph.D., in Michigan, in Physics, several years prior to that (I did postdocs in India between then and now). Back in Michigan I went to Adventist Students for Christ for a Bible study. Now, in New Mexico, I ran in church on one of the girls who were in that Bible study. She is married now. She was super excited to meet me, and she was telling all of her friends that she met me in a desert. Part of that excitement was that Michigan is where she is originally from and she misses that place like crazy, and I remind her of that. Incidentally, I miss Michigan as well, so I am glad I ran into her for that exact reason. In any case, she rans a small group of Bible studies for just few people, and she invited me to go there.
Now, during one of the Bible studies she said something along the lines "I follow this particular verse in my marriage thats why it works so well". I then responded by talking about some of my past relationships in connection to that verse. Nobody, except for one woman (who is single) said anything at all about it. Now why would that woman that lead Bible study totally ignore my comment? Its not like she doesn't care about me (I mean, she was totally excited to run into me after not knowing me for so many years and she was telling all her friends about me), so was she assuming that my past relationships were imaginary girlfriends? In other words, is she viewing me as a cute little thing (telling all her friends "isn't it cute I met him after so many years") but that cute little thing isn't datable and its a given? I mean she hasn't even asked me if I am dating anyone or married!
And now lets go to that single girl whom I mentioned. After few Bible studies someone found her a guy to date. Now, how come nobody tried to find me a girl to date? Again, they assume I am undatable! And this brings me back to one of my "mistakes" that I mentioned earlier. Remember I mentioned how I used to have a girlfriend and I weren't brining her to Bible studies but I should have? Now, this girl whom I ran into, I know her from those exact Bible studies. So what would have happened if I were to bring my then-girlfriend there? Then she would have known I am datable, she would have been responding to my mentioning my past girlfriends, AND, who knows, she might have been trying to introduce me to someone. See how much different it would have been?
29 Apr 2018, 4:12 am
Chronos wrote:
1. We do not exist to be a status symbol or a certificate of validity for you. Those things are objects. Women are people.
But I don't understand why can't the "status" and "emotional support" go together without contradicting each other. Lets say I got admitted to Harvard and Tennessee State, and it just happened that the girl with whom I have a lot in common is at Harvard. So why can't I say "I go to Harvard for two reasons: one is that it is more prestigious, and the other is that the girl with whom I have a lot in common is there". Now, the same is true for the social status: why can't I say "I am dating this girl for two reasons: one is that she lifts up my social status, and the other is that she is there for me emotionally". In fact, in my case, those two things sort of feed into each other: each of them makes the other more painful, despite the fact that I see a clear distinction between the two.
Now, you are not the first one who said that "needing a woman for A, B, or C" makes her an object. But I just don't follow the logic of this. It seems like people are making an assumption of the type "if you need A, B and C, you don't need P, Q and R". But that is nothing but an assumption. I don't know if its the sexist culture that "made" that assumption true -- as in, the sexist dads told their sons "if you want A, B and C out of a woman, then make sure not to see her as P, Q, and R", but I can assure you that nobody taught "me" any of this. Unlike most men, I haven't heard of most of the things I am "supposed" to think (I mean the only way I even learned about the above stereotype was through being accused of supposedly following it) and I wouldn't buy into things even when I do hear of them. So I wish things I say were taken at a face value, without the "filter" of supposed stereotypes.
Chronos wrote:
2. We are not saviors or goddesses. We are people.
When it comes to emotional support, a human is enough for it.
Chronos wrote:
3. There are situations in which you should dump your partner. For example, abusive relationships, patterns of lying and infidelity, inherent incompatibility and so on.
4. A person who would never dump a partner under any circumstance is a person who's relationship is self serving and superficial. The other person is being used as a crutch and not being perceived as a person. People should have mutual compatibility and compatible goals in life, standards for themselves and their partner, and should also hold their partner accountable for themselves.
4. A person who would never dump a partner under any circumstance is a person who's relationship is self serving and superficial. The other person is being used as a crutch and not being perceived as a person. People should have mutual compatibility and compatible goals in life, standards for themselves and their partner, and should also hold their partner accountable for themselves.
I guess I was trying to exaggerate a point. What I was having in mind when I was typing about it was a specific girl who didn't trust me I would stay loyal to her because I was talking about ex-s too much. Obviously, she wasn't questioning that "she" would be presumably abusive, she was questioning "my" loyalty. And I remember I told her "yes I will be loyal because it just makes no sense to dump the exact thing that saved me from my misery" and she said "I fully understand that, in fact I have self esteem issues myself, but the experience shows that the guys that aren't happy with htemselves would dump you because they are looking for something better". And that really hurt me that she said it because in my case its simply not true.
Chronos wrote:
5. Most people tend to find desperate people unattractive with respect to dating for a variety of reasons, some of which I have already illustrated.
That looks circular: women find me unattractive because I am desperate, and I am desperate because they find me unattractive. If only I were in a relationship it would have broken that circle: I would no longer be desperate and, therefore, I would become more attractive to the woman I date. But of course this would require women to make a leap of faith that I would change in this way once in a relationship. And I remember them saying I wont' change because I can't be happy with someone unless I am happy with myself, and its hard to believe: if the whole reason for my unhappiness *is* the fact that I am single, wouldn't this logically imply that my unhappiness would go away once my single status goes away?
29 Apr 2018, 4:21 am
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Like I mentioned in the other reply, if I say status is one of hte reasons it doesn't mean its the only reason. What I want, more than anything, is an emotional validation. Let me bring you an example of it that has nothing to do with status. When I overhear two girls in the library studying together, both stressed about their exam, what makes it all better is that they are there for each other, on the same boat so to speak. There is something about their voice, the fact that its quiet and soothing, that sort of conveys that kind of emotional bond, and I really wish I was one of them. So you see, they can't use each other as a trophy since presumably they are straight and presumably they aren't dating, but there is something about that bond that I crave. Sometimes I wish I was a girl for that exact reason; but if I am a guy then I want to have a girlfriend since that would be the only other way of having a female attention that I crave without worrying as to whether she is dating someone.
Now, one reason I talk about status is that people with low status are perceived as not fully human -- which is the reason why I don't get that kind of emotional support I just described. But then again, if just ONE woman were to know I am fully human, maybe SHE would provide all the validation I need, and I would be able to accept more easily that others don't see me as fully human, since I would be able to just go hide in her room, cry on her shoulder, and get HER support. Still, for the obvious reasons, it is better if others were to see me as fully human too, thats why I am saying that using her to raise my social status IS important, its just not the main thing.
And no I am not contradicting myself. I have several emotional things that are important. Status is one of them, emotional support is the other one. I was just overfocusing on status in my first post but in reality it is a combination of both.
Let me give you a real life illustration of what it is that bothers me about the way others perceive me, and how it can change if they see me with a girlfriend. So I am doing my second Ph.D., in New Mexico, in Math. I did my first Ph.D., in Michigan, in Physics, several years prior to that (I did postdocs in India between then and now). Back in Michigan I went to Adventist Students for Christ for a Bible study. Now, in New Mexico, I ran in church on one of the girls who were in that Bible study. She is married now. She was super excited to meet me, and she was telling all of her friends that she met me in a desert. Part of that excitement was that Michigan is where she is originally from and she misses that place like crazy, and I remind her of that. Incidentally, I miss Michigan as well, so I am glad I ran into her for that exact reason. In any case, she rans a small group of Bible studies for just few people, and she invited me to go there.
Now, during one of the Bible studies she said something along the lines "I follow this particular verse in my marriage thats why it works so well". I then responded by talking about some of my past relationships in connection to that verse. Nobody, except for one woman (who is single) said anything at all about it. Now why would that woman that lead Bible study totally ignore my comment? Its not like she doesn't care about me (I mean, she was totally excited to run into me after not knowing me for so many years and she was telling all her friends about me), so was she assuming that my past relationships were imaginary girlfriends? In other words, is she viewing me as a cute little thing (telling all her friends "isn't it cute I met him after so many years") but that cute little thing isn't datable and its a given? I mean she hasn't even asked me if I am dating anyone or married!
And now lets go to that single girl whom I mentioned. After few Bible studies someone found her a guy to date. Now, how come nobody tried to find me a girl to date? Again, they assume I am undatable! And this brings me back to one of my "mistakes" that I mentioned earlier. Remember I mentioned how I used to have a girlfriend and I weren't brining her to Bible studies but I should have? Now, this girl whom I ran into, I know her from those exact Bible studies. So what would have happened if I were to bring my then-girlfriend there? Then she would have known I am datable, she would have been responding to my mentioning my past girlfriends, AND, who knows, she might have been trying to introduce me to someone. See how much different it would have been?
Now, one reason I talk about status is that people with low status are perceived as not fully human -- which is the reason why I don't get that kind of emotional support I just described. But then again, if just ONE woman were to know I am fully human, maybe SHE would provide all the validation I need, and I would be able to accept more easily that others don't see me as fully human, since I would be able to just go hide in her room, cry on her shoulder, and get HER support. Still, for the obvious reasons, it is better if others were to see me as fully human too, thats why I am saying that using her to raise my social status IS important, its just not the main thing.
And no I am not contradicting myself. I have several emotional things that are important. Status is one of them, emotional support is the other one. I was just overfocusing on status in my first post but in reality it is a combination of both.
Let me give you a real life illustration of what it is that bothers me about the way others perceive me, and how it can change if they see me with a girlfriend. So I am doing my second Ph.D., in New Mexico, in Math. I did my first Ph.D., in Michigan, in Physics, several years prior to that (I did postdocs in India between then and now). Back in Michigan I went to Adventist Students for Christ for a Bible study. Now, in New Mexico, I ran in church on one of the girls who were in that Bible study. She is married now. She was super excited to meet me, and she was telling all of her friends that she met me in a desert. Part of that excitement was that Michigan is where she is originally from and she misses that place like crazy, and I remind her of that. Incidentally, I miss Michigan as well, so I am glad I ran into her for that exact reason. In any case, she rans a small group of Bible studies for just few people, and she invited me to go there.
Now, during one of the Bible studies she said something along the lines "I follow this particular verse in my marriage thats why it works so well". I then responded by talking about some of my past relationships in connection to that verse. Nobody, except for one woman (who is single) said anything at all about it. Now why would that woman that lead Bible study totally ignore my comment? Its not like she doesn't care about me (I mean, she was totally excited to run into me after not knowing me for so many years and she was telling all her friends about me), so was she assuming that my past relationships were imaginary girlfriends? In other words, is she viewing me as a cute little thing (telling all her friends "isn't it cute I met him after so many years") but that cute little thing isn't datable and its a given? I mean she hasn't even asked me if I am dating anyone or married!
And now lets go to that single girl whom I mentioned. After few Bible studies someone found her a guy to date. Now, how come nobody tried to find me a girl to date? Again, they assume I am undatable! And this brings me back to one of my "mistakes" that I mentioned earlier. Remember I mentioned how I used to have a girlfriend and I weren't brining her to Bible studies but I should have? Now, this girl whom I ran into, I know her from those exact Bible studies. So what would have happened if I were to bring my then-girlfriend there? Then she would have known I am datable, she would have been responding to my mentioning my past girlfriends, AND, who knows, she might have been trying to introduce me to someone. See how much different it would have been?
Whether having a partner raises your percieved status or not is subjective.
Based on what you said here, you must be a pretty damn smart guy. In my eyes, a smart guy with no partner like you, has way higher status than a dumb uneducated guy who is married.
In regards to the emotional support thing, in my opinion, you are seeking a partner for an equally bad reason as simply seeking a partner for sex. I don't believe it is a woman's job to emotionally support her man, and I also believe most women actually find this burden rather unappealing. A woman will quickly get tired of you if you need emotional validation all the time.
For emotional support, having strong friendships with other males is way more useful, and also more natural. Other males(if they are smart and like minded people), will be able to relate and empathize with you much more easily than any woman.
29 Apr 2018, 5:31 am
NorthWind wrote:
Obviously things like food are only minuscule if you have enough of it.
Well, nobody is going to die from lack of sex. So sex is comparable to wanting a desert after a good meal, as opposed to wanting something when you are starving.
NorthWind wrote:
As for sex, it's hopefully not as important to anyone as not starving but some people have a stronger sex drive than others. You'll find other single men on this site that are like you mostly focused on the emotional aspect and others that are frustrated by a lack of sex. If you don't want sex at all and never did you are probably asexual, which is not the norm and therefore your feelings about this will differ from that of most other people.
I am not asexual: even though I never had sex, I got sexually arosed when I was cuddling with my ex-s. So I know I am experiencing sexual attraction to women, its just that in comparison to other things it doesn't rank that high.
NorthWind wrote:
Did she say you wanted to use her or that you'd dump her. That's two different things.
Okay here is a conversation in question:
ME:Okay if I ask you out would you date me? In your case I like that you keep Torah and that you are in med school
HER: First of all, I am honestly flattered. However, I do not think it would be the best for us to date for a few reasons. For one thing it would be a long distance relationship which wouldn't be the best. Also, when it comes to dating and relationships it's good to be content and comfortable in who you are otherwise you will pull the other one down. And then the last thing is that I feel you should bring this loneliness and low self esteem and whatever else you are feeling to God. During this time in your life He is waiting for you to come to Him and have faith in Him. If you fully surrender yourself to Him, and have commitment and love for Him more than anything else in your life then He will satisfy you.
ME: The fact that someone should be happy with themselves first before starting relationship is something I been told by others too but it never made sense to me. If the source of my unhapinness is the fact that I am single wouldn't the fact that get into relationship solve that problem hence the whole issue about my pulling the other person down will be moot? I guess to some extend I can answer my own question because in past relationships i was happy during first couple of months but then I felt like a mess again.. But still the question is: which is easier to figure out a way to be happy while single or to figure out how to "remain" happy past the honeymoon stage of a relationship? To me the latter seems easier than the former. So since I have to make changes anyway why not make the ones that seems easier by finding relationship first?
HER:Because that will only be a temporary fix.
ME: I guess one thing I can do in order for it not to be temporary is to use it as a stepping stone for self improvement in other areas. For example during that period that I am happy I can use that self conference to make more friends and then I won't be complaining to my girlfriend about the way I have no friends few months later (well I DID complain about it to my last ex but I am just saying bow I can avoid it) or the other thing is that since my relationship problem is solved I can focus more fully on other things, which can include reading Gods word and in fact if both .e and the girl I date are christian this can only encourage me more. What I am trying to say is that being miserable and turning others off this way is self perpetuating circle so if this circle can be broken however temporarily then I would be able to try and avoid falling into one again
HER: Then you would be using her. The best thing for you to do is trust God and keep His commandments.
NorthWind wrote:
She's not saying that you don't want emotional validation but that people in real life might think so.
But, if you re-read that quote, she also said other people know I need validation. So she said two things -- both referring to other people's opinion:
1. Other people know I need validation
2. Other people think I don't want it
Hence the contradiction
NorthWind wrote:
If you look unkempt they'll assume there's something wrong with you though
But in order for this to explain why they assume I don't need validation, they have to assume that people who have "something wrong" with them don't have emotional needs. But thats not true: people with bipolar, for example, do have emotions, in fact a lot more emotions than normal people. Thats why it seems like they have to assume that "something wrong" has to be closer to autism than to bipolar, hence the relevance of knowledge of autism.
