My two hours with Mystery

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This has to be the first topic I've written in WP, but considering all the PUA threads and debate that seem to be popular here, I thought I might as well share my experience and impressions about meeting and talking with the much debated PUA, Mystery (Erik von Markovik).

(I know it’s an essay and that it is very subjective; please bear with me or kindly move to the next thread.)

In brief: Apparently Mystery and another PUA have lately been arranging a Scandinavian tour, weekend before last giving a boot camp in Helsinki. Two Fridays ago, they had a free meet and greet for all interested. Having been friend requested in facebook by Mystery some months ago (after a very brief fb conversation), I also got informed about the event. I was in the city centre and having nothing better to do, I couldn't resist sneaking into the event to see for once and for all, what the whole PUA fuss is all about. Seeing a group of nerdy looking guys at a restaurant's summer terrace telling me "Sorry, guys only. It's a private event" confirmed my decision

I make my way through a dozen-ish guys, majority what could be best described as "geeky" and the rest sporting very flamboyant appearance with bright and funky accessories. All seeming to be in a complete awe of a tall guy in the centre doing most of the talking, some of the young men present were apparently taking notes as well. As the only blonde girl present and obviously an outsider, I start getting immediate attention and a fairly warm welcome by a few guys around. I asked about the "event" going on making the men around exchange a couple of looks and talk clumsily something about learning "social dynamics" and making new friends. My reception was between friendly small talk and teasing me for the fact of being present. After a minute or two the tall, reasonably handsome guy in his early 40s (wearing a slightly less bizarre ensemble than I expected), approaches me and introduces himself as Mystery. I recognize a few lines (an opener?) from the tv show PUA. Then he asks for a hug followed by him playfully pushing me away saying "now get lost". I answer with the same courtesy by playfully slapping him in his face. The men present laugh and he semi-forcefully makes a joke about it. I ask, "So, what do you do in life?" The men start laughing again and after a small pause he describes himself as an actor, author, lecturer and various other things that he tells would take a lifetime to describe. My first impressions: he is very talkative with flamboyant body language and colourful expressions, best described with a word “performer". Admittedly he also seemed surprisingly easy to approach, to have excellent social skills, to happily listen and reply to the men's questions and share his attention equally (even if he chose to poke me with a sudden “deep” philosophical question that I reply to with equally philosophical answer, leaving him with nothing wittier to say except “You learn something new everyday…”) Generally speaking his response to the people around (especially me, I felt) seemed like a strange combination of proud ignorance and attention giving. He however seemed to fully enjoy the attention he was receiving and at every possible turn slipped a witty remark complimenting himself or his lifestyle as "cool". What kept bothering me through the whole time was that each and every line he spoke seemed strictly rehearsed and any hole in the conversation he filled with colourful phrases that with any further thinking had no point or relevant meaning (in common language known as bullsh*t).

When asked what is the "mystery", he replies "magic" and a bit further of friendly chatter especially about him and his life takes him to talk about his lectures and what he fairly soon describes getting paid for "bullsh*tting" (the term he literally used) people for a few hours and much longer when needed. The conversation that followed was between him, me and a handful of the men present mainly about the PUA tactics and reasons, occasionally interrupted by me making a countering or strongly disagreeing remark or a question, and by a tiny Finnish-Swedish guy (wearing a red and black amulet, ridiculous earrings that I later recognize as having also been worn by Mystery, bright red pants and the most ridiculous zebra patterned shoes I’ve ever seen) paying me a mild insult every now and then in front of the whole group (such as out of the blue stating I’m not his type). Few moments later Mystery leads the group indoors to the bar and quietly makes a friendly gesture by picking my drink (bought by an Israeli guy present desperately trying to get my attention) from the floor (lack of table) and handing it to me. I separate myself from the rest of the group for a while but am quickly caught by the tiny Finnish-Swedish guy whose insults start getting much too stingy. Annoyed and very unimpressed, I ignore him and move again without any further words or attention to him, quickly getting chatted by an Israeli guy also seemingly very keen of my company. Apparently making a joke about my experience with bdsm (that had followed talk about Mystery’s remark about being a bad influence) was a mistake I escape to the ladies’ room. On my way out I pay attention to a comment by Mystery and ask another countering question. Few moments later he laughs a little describing me as “powerful” and indicates that he would be happy to talk to me more later. I laugh a little, but continue my line of not showing too much attention (with to be fair, was very much undeserved by him) and what seems to have become my mission at the event; comment any disagreement I might have. He turns and faces straight towards me and I end up encaging to another long-ish conversation with him, which included various topics, but also much about rather annoying me-me-me blabber about him as the best PUA out there and the life he leads (a couple of guys still surrounding him still awing), the importance of friends and fun (“a very good friend of his” present, a London PUA sits quietly in a corner through the whole event not chatting to anyone but one specific person), making an entrance to a club and finding “cool” parties and people. I challenge him with a few remarks, especially pondering the shallowness of some of his views and connections with people. I am left unimpressed with a string of vague and shallow answers. A few more questions, comments and moments later I directly ask him whether he’s ever actually been in love. A brief quiet moment follows and his previously rehearsed face turns seemingly unhappy and he gives a very vague answer about love basically being “uncontrollable”. I stop tormenting him any further and start making my move elsewhere. The event seems to be ending and people move outside again. A person seemingly belonging to Mystery’s crew starts taking some photos and most of the young men present are very keen to get to a picture with the leading man. I stand aside and watch. Eventually Mystery pulls me with him to a photo as well, which quickly becomes two and steals a hug. Whilst being photographed he also shares his skype name with me in a low voice and casually says I’m welcome to add him. I make some distance and after a while ask: “One more question: What exactly is PUA about?” He announces dramatically to all present: “Building a life”. I feel like rolling my eyes. I leave my goodbyes to the people present and make my leave after the two hours.

My immediate thoughts about the person and the “event” were “what a phony and a clown!”. Is this seriously a presentation of what the PUA society has to offer for the money paying desperate adolescents and is this the infamous person they so look up to? I actually had expected at least a bit more of intellectual banter and not to be able to bounce him around like a basket ball. At some point I almost would have begged to hear one convincing or at least a reasonable argument to defend the world of PUA and himself (which never happened). As his fb profile states that he is in currently in a relationship (even though he was advertising it’s end not too long ago), I never expected him to try to hit on me, but I at least expected to meet somebody with charm and attractive personality. NOT somebody so off-putting in his phoniness and self-advertisement. At the same time he admittedly was never directly rude at me, so I can’t speak too harshly of his manners. Personally, I actually happen to have a major thing for tall guys with long dark hair and chiseled features, so it was almost disappointing to see how this man with a reputation as a seducer, somehow manages to have as much sex appeal to me as a rotting cold cod.

I want to clarify that I am NOT attempting to write a hate article; I am only giving my honest and frank perception and speculations as an outsider who has never met the person before nor had any connections to the PUA society.

The aftermath:

The Israeli guy who kept following me through the evening (to whom I foolishly had agreed to give my number after three refusals, with the promise I could get to see the guys “in the field”. I had still made a point I had no interest in him) Sent me the following messages on the same night:

Him: "Hey, I wanna serve You tonight as a real slave, do anything You desire, from cleaning Your house, packing Your suitcase and pleasing You in any way You desire: only rule that it is real "

Me: "Pass."

Him: I'll do anything to make you happy! I promise I will be a true slave and follow any command. Your choice my Mistress."

Him: "Honestly I'd love to serve you - I will be a slave second I come, and u can tie me up any way You like so You have full control! I promise to be good "

Him (after another hour): ":(((((("



The pint-sized Finnish-Swedish guy managed to find my facebook profile and send me a message telling what fun time he had with me.

I reply to him by telling him: “You have to admit you were extremely rude towards me yesterday. Please do not contact me again. Thank you.”

Gladly he obeyed.

It should go without saying that my faith in the Mystery Method is now at the rock bottom.

And as for Mystery:

Out of curiosity I actually do end up adding him on skype and add a message telling him to add me “at his own risk”. Against all of my expectations he fairly soon adds me. I do have to give him credit for patience and even during the Friday night and not getting annoyed by my continuous critique towards him.

During the weekend I have a date in Amsterdam and at a point mention my encounter with the famed PUA and we have a laugh about it. It turns out that my date has actually also met Mystery as well as Neil Strauss (the Game author) and has read the book, giving me a lot of details how emotionally hurt Mystery actually seems to be (or has been) and the amount of hardships he has had in his life (his attempted suicide and failed relationships seem to be common knowledge). I suddenly start feeling a good deal of sympathy much rather than disagreement for the person, perhaps understanding his behavior a bit more. The Game era may or may be gone, but I could still recognize a mask worn for the audience and entertainment of the general public, keeping everything else hidden (may that be good or bad) behind the curtains. Who knows, if I actually do end up having a skype chat with him at any point, I have to ask him to introduce me to Erik.


I’m nothing going to finish with too dramatic of an epilogue: My fairly short, two-hour-encounter with the PUA wannabes and Mystery left me very uninspired and having very little faith with their techniques, but then again, that is the only PUA experience I have had so far. I was far less than impressed by Mystery’s stage persona (avatar?), but not knowing the person underneath, I can’t remain but neutral and keep speculating.

I think PUAs don't actually know how women with Asperger's work. For example, I like guy stuff. I like stuff blowing up and video games and wearing the same shirt I've worn for 3 days everywhere. This doesn't make me an easy target for PUAs. Pair that with my quirky, tomboyish, nerdy, and resilient personality, it is near impossible to use a line on me and it actually work.

And, PUAs aren't exactly looking for a relationship (I don't think), I think they're just looking for someone to rumpus with. For AS women, where rumpus is a fun thing but not exactly the only thing we want, I feel like we see right through those games that PUAs play.

PUA isn't a way to hypnotize someone into bed, just a set of memes that are intended to sell E-books. Mystery can get a lot of women into bed because he's got money, is tall, charismatic and has a boyishly handsome face.

I had to google PUA

Turns out I wasn't missing much, your story quite humorous and it's mad how someone can become super creepy after 1 text.

Thank you for killing 2 minutes for me

Big shout out to the "slaves" of Israel ! !

Funny read. This stuff is so irrelevant to me though - I wouldn't be interested in any woman who fell for it, even if it did work.

Yes!! ! This is the part I don't get!

Lilya, thank you for sharing with us such a fascinating inside look! Sorry you had to take one for the team.

Im just waiting for the people who use it/endorse it to pop up on here

I hope you enjoyed... I honestly can't understand how any girl with half a brain would fall for it either. During the two hours I was hoping to hear or see at least one grain of an idea that would make pick-up-artist society seem somewhat sensible, but it never happened.

It's been a good laugh afterwards, though. Although I've really started to feel pity for Mystery and those guys who fall for the marketing

I don't... I change the shirt after 1 or 2 days.

*pops up*

nope. I must admit at some stage of my life I followed PUA stuff (not him, even then what he said didn't seem right) but those days are past. I must admit I got more knowledgeable about social dynamics and body language after some reading though, and today I apply a good chunk of these things everyday with good results.

It's not manipulative, mind you. Things like not being too clingy, not showing too much affection too early, having initial conversations that are not boring, how to tease properly and a bunch more, have helped me get along better with other people, and some of them apply even when I'm not interesting in dating them. Lacking the natural empathy and social awareness of NT's, that's the closest I can get.

They are mostly to get past the early stages of a friendship or a romantic relationship anyway. Afterwards I'm comfortable enough with that person that I don't need to monitor myself as often, and everything flows more naturally. Or I just realize that we aren't very compatible anyway, case in which I just drop it. A friend of mine can get into relationships with women who have nothing in common with him, but he doesn't really enjoy his time with them, and I don't want that.

Huh, I'm aware this might be controversial but... a nice bit of civil discussion won't hurt anybody, and it could result in some interesting new insights for everybody.

As ive said before, theres many different "PUA mindsets". But the general idea that some predetermined checklist will work isnt very high

I must admit that I don't particulary like the idea of following a checklist either. But the alternative is getting caught in a situation where I must small talk and have no clue of what I should say so... I'd rather follow a plan until I reach the point I don't need one

I have to kind of disagree with you on that point. PUA is based on hypnotherapy, I know a fair bit about hypnotherapy, I studied the subject. I have read a few of the PUA books just for curiosity and not for application, I easily spotted hypnotherapy techniques in the PUA literature. A good number of the techniques are similar to Classical Ericksonian, Neo-Ericksonian and Neurolinguistic Programming approaches to hypnosis.

Never much cared for PUAs and their books. I think it is mostly facepalm worthy. I have read somewhere, Mystery being described as a "peacocker". By the description of the guys there, I would say this is accurate. Nicely handled, Lilya

[img]edit:%20comic%20removed%20by%20mod%20for%20uncensored%20swears[/img]

[img][800:653]http://puacomic.com/comic/2010-08-05-furry-hat.png[/img]

LOL

Now that we're sharing comics...

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As Ive mentioned before, there is one PUA who I have watched his video fully because it didnt seem like utter BS. Its "gambler", his 'method' isnt about negging or what not. Its more of a dating coach and saying things to keep a friendly conversation growing in which you treat the person nicely, dont bombard them with stuff, etc that can slowly grow into something that can continue later. He does obviously say the same propaganda "i can sleep with any supermodel out there" thing but when you actually pay attention to his 'method' you notice its more or less how social interaction should be.

That said even though his method is what ive been always doing naturally he makes it work flawlessly because he is now a long haired prettyboy. Makes dating a bit easier.