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How to break the "Nice Guy" cycle

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Tim_Tex
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25 May 2012, 5:20 am

As many of you know, "Nice Guy Syndrome" is a very common theme in the L&D folder on here. Yesterday, I was browsing Yahoo, and came upon this article:

http://yahoo.match.com/y/article.aspx?a ... ID=1332738

It deals with the steps one would need to make to avoid falling into that trap over and over again.

I hope this is of some help to those who suffer from NGS.



DogsWithoutHorses
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25 May 2012, 5:42 am

A couple of these tips are decent but the premise is flawed.


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25 May 2012, 6:08 am

The premise is flawed cause women want guys that are mean to others but not to them. That article doesn't even mention other people besides the woman in question.



DogsWithoutHorses
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25 May 2012, 6:21 am

Venger wrote:
The premise is flawed cause women want guys that are mean to others but not to them. That article doesn't even mention other people besides the woman in question.


Well as a woman, that's not what I want, but I'm reluctant to assign my own or any other motivation or characteristic to women as a whole because women aren't a monolith.


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25 May 2012, 6:29 am

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
Venger wrote:
The premise is flawed cause women want guys that are mean to others but not to them. That article doesn't even mention other people besides the woman in question.


Well as a woman, that's not what I want, but I'm reluctant to assign my own or any other motivation or characteristic to women as a whole because women aren't a monolith.


Yes I agree. The NT women who think that way make up the vast majority though.



Chronos
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25 May 2012, 6:37 am

Let us refrain from talking about what women want. Most of you are not women and a good deal of you really don't know all that much about them, or their wants.

Overcoming "NGS" actually doesn't have much to do with knowing what women want. It's about respecting yourself, knowing where to place your boundaries, and enforcing them. It's about valuing yourself as a person, not minimizing your own needs in a relationship, and understanding that love is not something you can buy or barter for.



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25 May 2012, 7:05 am

I'm asexual so this is probably irrelevant...but if a guy was to disagree with me just for the hell of it, not because they have an opinion either way and then make a stupid comment that sounds like they are indicating my head is too large or something I think I'd head for the door to leave.


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25 May 2012, 7:40 am

IF a person doesn't really want you then being nice want change the situation. This applies to both men and women.

There are many studies THAT suggest a woman knows upon meeting a man( within a few seconds) IF she is interested in him or NOT.

IF I am an emotional person and require THAT my full range of emotions are MET than a person who is consistently nice would NOT be able to fulfill this need; an as*hole would have a much better chance.

I could write you a dating Theory based upon Dr. Simon Baron-Cohen's Empathizing-Systemizing model.

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25 May 2012, 7:52 am

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
Venger wrote:
The premise is flawed cause women want guys that are mean to others but not to them. That article doesn't even mention other people besides the woman in question.


Well as a woman, that's not what I want, but I'm reluctant to assign my own or any other motivation or characteristic to women as a whole because women aren't a monolith.


Well said "Dogs Without Horses". Women are not a monolith. When someone views a gender as one big monolith, it's because of something that they are doing that causes one woman after another to reject them. Maybe they misread things and gravitate towards a certain type time and time again. I remember growing up around an auntie who proclaimed daily what bastards men were. She saw them as a monolith. Interestingly, every single mate she had was an alcoholic. I later found out at her funeral that she used to go to A.A. meetings to pick up men. These gossipers also said, "I never understood why she did that! She was such a nice Christian lady!" A lot of people on the spectrum do view others as a monolith because they don't understand complex social cues. It's easier and hurts less if a person just generalizes. Many aspies lack a good concrete sense of self. Some lack boundaries. When a guy is too nice, is it kindness or weakness? When I was dating, this obviously aspie guy treated me the same as he did with a total b***h. Excessively kind to both of us. But who was more deserving? I say me. I was good to him. He had no boundary. It didn't matter if I were good to him or awful. This made me actually hate him. I lost all respect for him. He just wanted a girlfriend, any girlfriend. He didn't see me as an indivdual and didn't give any credit to my acts of kindness. Even though he was a NG, it didn't matter! He'd be an NG even if I were a jerk! As if he were programmed like a robot and didn't really FEEL what was going on. When an NG is treated like crap, he should withdraw or give some crap back! When he doesn't, this objectifies the woman even if it appears like she has the upper hand. This objectifiction of the woman is what makes NG's finish last. The pseudo NG just goes through the motions to catch the woman. Once he has her, it just becomes a dead relationship as if she were an object just put on a shelf and left to collect dust. Whoopie!The pseudo NG has a woman (any woman) now, so he can feel better about himself.



Last edited by RightGalaxy on 25 May 2012, 8:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

TheSunAlsoRises
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25 May 2012, 8:12 am

RightGalaxy wrote:
DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
Venger wrote:
The premise is flawed cause women want guys that are mean to others but not to them. That article doesn't even mention other people besides the woman in question.


Well as a woman, that's not what I want, but I'm reluctant to assign my own or any other motivation or characteristic to women as a whole because women aren't a monolith.


Well said "Dogs Without Horses". Women are not a monolith. A lot of guys act as if we are one big cult and that we all get together and discuss them. When someone views a gender as one big monolith, it's because of something that they are doing that causes one woman after another to reject them. Maybe they misread things and gravitate towards a certain type time and time again. I remember growing up around an auntie who proclaimed daily what bastards men were. She saw them as a monolith. Interestingly, every single mate she had was an alcoholic. I later found out at her funeral that she used to go to A.A. meetings to pick up men. These gossipers also said, "I never understood why she did that! She was such a nice Christian lady!" Another thing, what would posses a woman to maintain a penpalship with a prisoner? Does this make her a nice, forgiving, optimistic potential mate when he is released? Does she think that she can mold him into her fantasy and has no competition?
Is it down to
pure sickness or developmental delay?
Some men are sick like this as well. The harder you kick them, the more they come back. Even my 14 year old niece tells me this. The meaner she is to certain boys, the more they want to date her. She thinks they take her abuse only because she looks like Selena Gomez. Middle school mentality in adults is developmental delay. It's not NG syndrome. It's asperger's.



Surely, she isn't the ONLY teenage girl who thinks this way. IF the way THAT she thinks is common amongst her peers then there might be a problem. I don't think YOU can apply certain social characteristics to 100% of any particular group BUT i suspect there are certain characteristics THAT you can attribute to a majority of a particular group. BUT, since it's not backed by verifiable research and do to political correctness; it's not pursued.



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DogsWithoutHorses
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25 May 2012, 8:17 am

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
RightGalaxy wrote:
DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
Venger wrote:
The premise is flawed cause women want guys that are mean to others but not to them. That article doesn't even mention other people besides the woman in question.


Well as a woman, that's not what I want, but I'm reluctant to assign my own or any other motivation or characteristic to women as a whole because women aren't a monolith.


Well said "Dogs Without Horses". Women are not a monolith. A lot of guys act as if we are one big cult and that we all get together and discuss them. When someone views a gender as one big monolith, it's because of something that they are doing that causes one woman after another to reject them. Maybe they misread things and gravitate towards a certain type time and time again. I remember growing up around an auntie who proclaimed daily what bastards men were. She saw them as a monolith. Interestingly, every single mate she had was an alcoholic. I later found out at her funeral that she used to go to A.A. meetings to pick up men. These gossipers also said, "I never understood why she did that! She was such a nice Christian lady!" Another thing, what would posses a woman to maintain a penpalship with a prisoner? Does this make her a nice, forgiving, optimistic potential mate when he is released? Does she think that she can mold him into her fantasy and has no competition?
Is it down to
pure sickness or developmental delay?
Some men are sick like this as well. The harder you kick them, the more they come back. Even my 14 year old niece tells me this. The meaner she is to certain boys, the more they want to date her. She thinks they take her abuse only because she looks like Selena Gomez. Middle school mentality in adults is developmental delay. It's not NG syndrome. It's asperger's.



Surely, she isn't the ONLY teenage girl who thinks this way. IF the way THAT she thinks is common amongst her peers then there might be a problem. I don't think YOU can apply certain social characteristics to 100% of any particular group BUT i suspect there are certain characteristics THAT you can attribute to a majority of a particular group. BUT, since it's not backed by verifiable research and do to political correctness; it's not pursued.



TheSunAlsoRises


Oh, so it's a case of political correctness gone mad to reject the characterization that all (or even most) women 'want to date jerks' or 'insert any other stereotyped behavior here'?
You could be saying something totally different, I'm legitimately a little confused by your post (I have language quirks).


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edgewaters
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25 May 2012, 8:19 am

RightGalaxy wrote:
A lot of guys act as if we are one big cult and that we all get together and discuss them.


It's not a monolithic cult or anything close to that, but women do tend to network more, specifically about relationships, sex, etc. We don't really do that. Not sure why we don't, it seems logical enough to share information, but we just don't tend to do that to the same degree.



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25 May 2012, 8:19 am

RightGalaxy wrote:
DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
Venger wrote:
The premise is flawed cause women want guys that are mean to others but not to them. That article doesn't even mention other people besides the woman in question.


Well as a woman, that's not what I want, but I'm reluctant to assign my own or any other motivation or characteristic to women as a whole because women aren't a monolith.


Well said "Dogs Without Horses". Women are not a monolith. A lot of guys act as if we are one big cult and that we all get together and discuss them. When someone views a gender as one big monolith, it's because of something that they are doing that causes one woman after another to reject them. Maybe they misread things and gravitate towards a certain type time and time again. I remember growing up around an auntie who proclaimed daily what bastards men were. She saw them as a monolith. Interestingly, every single mate she had was an alcoholic. I later found out at her funeral that she used to go to A.A. meetings to pick up men. These gossipers also said, "I never understood why she did that! She was such a nice Christian lady!" Another thing, what would posses a woman to maintain a penpalship with a prisoner? Does this make her a nice, forgiving, optimistic potential mate when he is released? Does she think that she can mold him into her fantasy and has no competition?
Is it down to
pure sickness or developmental delay?
Some men are sick like this as well. The harder you kick them, the more they come back. Even my 14 year old niece tells me this. The meaner she is to certain boys, the more they want to date her. She thinks they take her abuse only because she looks like Selena Gomez. Middle school mentality in adults is developmental delay. It's not NG syndrome. It's asperger's.


Some guys date the bad girls because they actually make the first move. Generally speaking, if you don't let them push you around, you'll still get laid.



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25 May 2012, 8:25 am

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
RightGalaxy wrote:
DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
Venger wrote:
The premise is flawed cause women want guys that are mean to others but not to them. That article doesn't even mention other people besides the woman in question.


Well as a woman, that's not what I want, but I'm reluctant to assign my own or any other motivation or characteristic to women as a whole because women aren't a monolith.


Well said "Dogs Without Horses". Women are not a monolith. A lot of guys act as if we are one big cult and that we all get together and discuss them. When someone views a gender as one big monolith, it's because of something that they are doing that causes one woman after another to reject them. Maybe they misread things and gravitate towards a certain type time and time again. I remember growing up around an auntie who proclaimed daily what bastards men were. She saw them as a monolith. Interestingly, every single mate she had was an alcoholic. I later found out at her funeral that she used to go to A.A. meetings to pick up men. These gossipers also said, "I never understood why she did that! She was such a nice Christian lady!" Another thing, what would posses a woman to maintain a penpalship with a prisoner? Does this make her a nice, forgiving, optimistic potential mate when he is released? Does she think that she can mold him into her fantasy and has no competition?
Is it down to
pure sickness or developmental delay?
Some men are sick like this as well. The harder you kick them, the more they come back. Even my 14 year old niece tells me this. The meaner she is to certain boys, the more they want to date her. She thinks they take her abuse only because she looks like Selena Gomez. Middle school mentality in adults is developmental delay. It's not NG syndrome. It's asperger's.



Surely, she isn't the ONLY teenage girl who thinks this way. IF the way THAT she thinks is common amongst her peers then there might be a problem. I don't think YOU can apply certain social characteristics to 100% of any particular group BUT i suspect there are certain characteristics THAT you can attribute to a majority of a particular group. BUT, since it's not backed by verifiable research and do to political correctness; it's not pursued.



TheSunAlsoRises


Oh, so it's a case of political correctness gone mad to reject the characterization that all (or even most) women 'want to date jerks' or 'insert any other stereotyped behavior here'?
You could be saying something totally different, I'm legitimately a little confused by your post (I have language quirks).


You gave your niece as an example of certain types of behavior discussed in this thread. I simply noted THAT your niece is probably NOT the only teenage girl in her peer group THAT behaves this way. In addition, i stated while certain characteristics may not be 100%; they may occur in a majority of individuals in a particular group BUT (said characteristics) are not backed up by research or not focused upon because of political correctness.

TheSunAlsoRises



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25 May 2012, 8:30 am

Kurgan wrote:
RightGalaxy wrote:
DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
Venger wrote:
The premise is flawed cause women want guys that are mean to others but not to them. That article doesn't even mention other people besides the woman in question.


Well as a woman, that's not what I want, but I'm reluctant to assign my own or any other motivation or characteristic to women as a whole because women aren't a monolith.


Well said "Dogs Without Horses". Women are not a monolith. A lot of guys act as if we are one big cult and that we all get together and discuss them. When someone views a gender as one big monolith, it's because of something that they are doing that causes one woman after another to reject them. Maybe they misread things and gravitate towards a certain type time and time again. I remember growing up around an auntie who proclaimed daily what bastards men were. She saw them as a monolith. Interestingly, every single mate she had was an alcoholic. I later found out at her funeral that she used to go to A.A. meetings to pick up men. These gossipers also said, "I never understood why she did that! She was such a nice Christian lady!" Another thing, what would posses a woman to maintain a penpalship with a prisoner? Does this make her a nice, forgiving, optimistic potential mate when he is released? Does she think that she can mold him into her fantasy and has no competition?
Is it down to
pure sickness or developmental delay?
Some men are sick like this as well. The harder you kick them, the more they come back. Even my 14 year old niece tells me this. The meaner she is to certain boys, the more they want to date her. She thinks they take her abuse only because she looks like Selena Gomez. Middle school mentality in adults is developmental delay. It's not NG syndrome. It's asperger's.


Some guys date the bad girls because they actually make the first move. Generally speaking, if you don't let them push you around, you'll still get laid.


Somebody's Good girl, was somebody's Bad girl. Believe THAT. LoL.

TheSunAlsoRises



RightGalaxy
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25 May 2012, 8:34 am

Chronos wrote:
Let us refrain from talking about what women want. Most of you are not women and a good deal of you really don't know all that much about them, or their wants.

Overcoming "NGS" actually doesn't have much to do with knowing what women want. It's about respecting yourself, knowing where to place your boundaries, and enforcing them. It's about valuing yourself as a person, not minimizing your own needs in a relationship, and understanding that love is not something you can buy or barter for.


Thank you Chronos! :) You said in just a few words what I tried to say in a ridiculous thousand!
Self respect is a biggie! Love is not for barter or purchase.