26 Sep 2005, 9:57 pm
26 Sep 2005, 10:43 pm
Okay just for clarification, here are the types of things I was doing:
1)after I got her email I was supposed to see her that very day and I didn't have time to actually read it through so
a)when she asked me that she didn't even know if she was mad at me, she was referring to email. But I understood it to mean that she was talking about me not having my own opinion and was saying like I was mad at her IN THE PAST when I weren't talking much. So I told her that it seemed to me that she was treating me like a child by asking her certain questions which is why I werern't very talkative. My intention was to EXPLAIN MYSELF. But this instead made her cry because she thought I was accusiong her of it. IT WASN"T THE FIRST TIME I BROUGHT IT UP TO HER. I was explaining myself A LOT, since day 1, WAY before taht email. But this was the first time when she didn't take explaining myself as really explaining myself.
b)Yes she gave me a chance to tell her what I really meant but I was too nervous to talk.
c)I had a legitimate objection to what she wrote on her email, but I didn't know it untill I read it CAREFULLY, AFTER that meeting with her. So DURING that meeting I thought that everything she said was true SIMPLY BECAUSE I DIDN"T READ IT CAREFULLY enough, so, having nothing to say, I WAS VERY QUIET -- and in her eyes when seh was explaining me something and I didn't answer, she thought I was mad at her.
d)I tried to manipulate the situation by telling her that if she has another bf then I would feel too shy to be friends with her. I was trying to make her feel sympathetic about my fears but it only angered ehr.
2)That day REALLY hurt her feelings so DESPITE the fact that she said in her email that she would love to hear what I think, after that day she was done talking to me about the issue.
3)Despite being done talking about the issue, after one day passed she was still willing to meet me, except that we were to meet at the library and not at her appartment.
4)I started to play as if I have a nervous breakdown and didn't come to the library where we were supposed to meet. While I was at home I was telling her that I was at the library, I pretended not to understand her questions on what part of the library, and just kept mumbling that "I will make my way" to where she is and really mumbling. This made her worry about me just like I wanted her. Then I appologised and said that I had a really "hectic day" with my dad calling and I had to call him back. As I expected, she was just really glad to hear that I was feeling better and she wanted to meet me next day "for sure".
5)Then when I came next day I had an appointment with my advisor THIS TIME IT WAS REAL ONE, and I walked out of the library without saying bye. So she thought I was mad at her. After I explained that I "forgot" to say bye due to my Asperger, she pretended to agree with it, but she still didn't talk to me for few days.
6)In few days I asked her if she is mad at me and appologised for walking out of the library without saying bye. I played damn and pretended to forget teh previous scene that happened before that (nervous breakdown one). She said it is okay, she isn't mad, and in fact she was the one worried if I was mad at her. She invited me to meet again.
7)When we met again I appologised again for "acting mad" and asked her does she REALLY believe that I wasn't mad at her. But instead she asked me differently "did you atually do it because you were mad". I said no. She then asked "but are you mad at me anyway". I said "not really". She said "why not REALLY, so you mean a little bit, why a little bit..." Either way this led me to talk again about that email and relationship. At first she just told me that I was PERFECT and she is the one screwed up with her depression and just stays out of relatioships for that reason. She was also trying to chear me up by talking about the sexual aspects of my relationship with my ex and whgat it is i like about her more than about my ex.
Later in the afternoon I brought up the subject again. And asked myself about independance. That was when she brought up the fact taht she cooks for me after she RELUCTANTLY PRETENDED to agree with me that "all moms are like that" after I INSISTANTLY kept repeating the issue wiht my mom. I explained to her that it was her idea to feed me and I am used to not eating regularly. She then said she will write another email again once the semester is over because she was too busy.
9)Few more drama with us sometimes seeing each other more often sometimes less often that I don't ermember
10)Again I asked her if she mad at me. THIS TIME I TOLD HER THAT SHE DOESN"T HAVE TO SEE ME AT ALL IF SHE NEEDS SOME SPACE. I guess that consideration really impressed her to the point that she said that yes she wants seeing me and can't wait for it and even added Love at the end. THen when we met, she wanted to look me into the eyes, and also wrote me how much she missed me and that if I ever need anything I should always call her
11)Then the next day I had few tax questions for her. She offered to do them FOR me even though I never asked it. But as I kept repeating over and over how I weren't sure of particular things she wrote, she became irritated and told me to go ask someone else. Then I pretended to bypass it by "okay I understand, now how about other qustions". She started doing them again. I was sititng all nervous. At first she kept smiling at it to make me feel better. But then all of a sudden she became really upset and siad "do you know you owe me a big time for doing it" and "that is one reason I won't ever date you, you are like little kid"
12)I appologised to her face to face and she didn't say "it is okay". So then when I met her in a couple of hours I started swearing at her by saying "I have one more quesiton about FUCKEN taxes" in order to let out my frustration. Then in afternoon I wrote her an email with lenghty explanation on how it was my fault I screwed up my studies and then sacrificed taxes by trying to catch up on my studies and that made me want to "undo" it by making someone else do taxes to me. She didn't reply untill a weekend later which wasn't typical of her and the only thing she wrote was "no problem".
13)Then this led me to write to her angry email swearing at her and yelling how it was an ACCIDENT whatever happened with taxes and also I again wrote about my mom since taxes and my mom are both "independant" issues by listing 10 examples of how I am totally pissed off with my mom.
14)She replied to one of the two emails "okay" and to the other one "I miss you". I told her I don't believe that she misses me. She told me she does miss me "silly" she was just too busy at school. And she invited me to come over the next day. But I couldn't make it since I had to drive somewhere to submit my taxes. So then she said "would I please come" yet another day and that she really wants to see me before I go visit my mom for a week.
15)She told me she would call me and she didn't, so I was waiting for her and only came really late. When I came she was packing up and leaving. I weren't sure whether she wanted me to go with ehr or not so I started deliberately walking faster than her to see whether she will call me, she didn't.
16)In few days I wrote her another email asking her whether she was angry at me or not. She again said she wasn't, and added that she was surprised I ran off because she was going to invite me to come over to her appartment. I explained to her that I weren't sure which was the case and didn't feel like "forcing" myself on to her. She told me that she suspected it but then she thought may be I was mad at her so decided to leave me alone. She added that we shouldn't ever "not tell" what we are thinking to each other in future.
17)The wonderful day when she was going to "correct her errors" in her email happened when I was in my mom's. Yet she never sent me new email. So when I came back to Michigan I reached my breaking point and so I first walked out of the door and then in 5 minutes decided to come back and called her friend a n****r (Anne herself is pure German, but her friends seem to be pretty diverse). I DID NOT ACTUALLY BRING ANYTING UP. I SIMPLY WALKED OUT OF THE DOOR OUT OF THE BLUE AND AS FAR AS n****r THIGN I PRETENDED IT TO BE PURE CURIOCITY -- I DIDN"T KNOW HOW TO READ HER EXACT COLOR. Anne told me that if I am going to act angry then I shouldn't be there. THen because of the word "if" i didn't go out of the room because there was still hope that it is just a warning. Then after she cooled down she told me that I should come tomorrow to see her. And she was even going to call me to "discuss plans for tomorrow" but I deliberately lied to her I didn't have my cell phone with me.
18)Tomorrow I appologised for what I did. She said she understood and she even hugged me. And she kept reassuring that eevrything was fine. In process of explaining myself I brought up taxes and my mom and she said she doesn't think any more I am not independant. I already "showed her otherwise" AT THE EMAILS TO WHICH SHE NEVER REPLIED!! !
19)Then in a while I asked her why didn't she wrote that email and whether it is because of taxes and she said "it really seems like a long process because I don't know if you get mad etc". I told her I won't get mad and she said she will write to me "but you can't get angry at me".
20)Then in a week she still didn't write to me. And then I told her that I never felt angry I was just WORRIED about staff which made me look like that. THen she told me that she would write to me right now. And she wrote to me a short paragraph that the reason she doesn't answer my emails is that I worry about problem Z (which is her being mad or her thinking that I depend on ppl) when it is "simply not true" and she is tired of dealing with my worries.
21)In five days (I promised to wait 5 days to "think about it" in order to encourage her to write to me) I replied to her that I thought about it and that may be we can work out better ways of communicating and I proposed the thing about being dirrect.
22)She didn't answer so I wrote to her an angry email about "what the f**k is she afraid of" and that I simply wanted an instruction on "exatly how does she want me to talk" and would follow through on ehr steps.
23)She replied that she does want to talk but she is in a process of moving and she will write to me once she is there
24)She didn't so it lead to few more angry emails, to which she never replied
25)I called her few weeks later and she asked how I was doing. The conversation began to develop but hten it stopped at the point where I answered her question on "how I was feeling" by telling her that I was worried she was mad at me. She told me no, and said she just didn't feel well. ANd in fact she was like "Roman!:)" so it seemed like when she said no she meant no
26)I still worried about taxes and that "taxes" ruined our relationship. After all right before "taxes" when I asked her whether I have a chance down the road she said "yes" but after taxes it was no. Then she become frustrated and said that she isn't LOOKING for boyfriends and that she is DONE with boys and that it isn't me but she really weren't feeling well because of her depression so this makes her done with boys. THen she had to go.
27)Then like a month later I appologised for her about not telling her about Megan and my previous intention on cheating on her with Megan. THis was dirrect reaction to my break-up with Megan which is yet another story but it made me really depressed AT THE MOMENT. Right now I realize that that admision of little secret was stupid, but I guess I was king of in a blues during that time.
26 Sep 2005, 11:35 pm
P.S. The thing that makes me feel like pursuing her is that I can't forgive myself for the fact that I absolutely BLOWN her. Because she was EXTREMELY patient with me BEFORE that email: within a week
1)She approached me first
2)She offered to cook for me
3)She offered to run together with me
4)She offered to study together EVERY DAY
5)She told me I was her closest friend and she didn't have many due to her depression
6)She was willing to openly discuss issues with me and even were asking me questions in order to try to understand where I was comming from
7)If I read THE email that she sent me (SEE THE LINK http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/sho ... hp?t=85524 ) it sounded like she liked me EXCEPT for 1, 2 and 3. Plus 1 and 2 were temporary while 3 were the real one.
It was MY fault that I made her think about 3 since I was the one constantly talking about my mom/ my ex in order to explain away why "my ex" still checks my emails despite us having broken up long time ago
9)She offered me the chance to discuss the email, and I was the one who blown it by being angry
10)She offered me PLENTY of chances AFTER that email.
11)All of the above developed VERY fast, so who knows where we would be if I didn't blow it.
12)We both understood each other, with me having AS and her having depression. She was wondering whether AS gave me some insight as she could never understand her roommates being noisy and staff
13)We are boht graduate students
14)She is in math and I am in physics
15)I am too shy to admit to my mom I meet ppl online and perwading ppl to lie is whole another story. But LO AND BEHOLD I MET HER OFFLINE
27 Sep 2005, 1:40 am
27 Sep 2005, 1:46 am
27 Sep 2005, 3:01 am
27 Sep 2005, 7:15 am
Let me add few details
AND HERE IS HOW I BLEW IT:
MARCH 27
I get rejection letter at the morning. I am supposed to meet her at her appartment at 11. However I take some time replying to her rejection letter and it is already 11:30. She calls me, and I tell her the truth that I was basically replying to her letter and I will gome in a short while, which I did.
Here is the letter that I sent her:
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I totally understand what you wrote and I am not mad at you at all. I guess I do feel sad; but I agree with you that it is hard to be in a relationship given your parts 1, 2, and 3. If I were you I would of also said no in this case, so I totally understand you.
Either way, I still love you to the point that I can't even think of other women. So I am still hopping that both of us will grow, so that the relationship can happen down the road. I really hope it doesn't sound like I am pushing it. Your supportive response to my E mail just made me comfortable enough to just lay it on a table. I guess this brings me to trying to think over various ways I can change, perhaps with your help.
I guess as for the independance issue, you were correct that I am used to women taking care of me. But I guess down subconsciously, feeling uncomfortable to express my feelings could be one of the reasons I have to listen to what other people have to tell me. In a lot of ways, being around you helps me in this regard. I think probably when you explained to me how we are in the same boat, I don't really feel judged by you. Like for one thing I notice that I can have a conversation with you which wasn't anything close with anyone else, including my ex girl friend (at least at the time when I knew Sarah for only a week). So somehow I begin to think that perhaps it does have some psychological component to it.
I am not saying it is that simple. Independance is the entire new skill which I don't have. Even though I do feel comfortable around you, I am still going alone your suggestions. So I guess its not it, but it is most definitely a first step.
I notice you mentioned how you don't know whether I really want to do something, or whether I do it because you suggested me to do it. Let me reassure you that I don't have so much problem honestly saying " yes" or "no". My mom feels like I am even too honest in that regard when I say "no" without suger coating it. When I say "okay" I really mean "yes"; even if it is something I am very enthusiastic about I would still say "ok" simply because it is hard to break a habbit. On the other hand, if I don't feel like doing whatever you say, I would just yell out the "no".
The biggest problem that I have is basically bringing up my own ideas. I guess this is slightly more than just feeling uncomfortable. Like for instance, I would rather have you find a movie as opposed to looking for it myself, simply because I am so busy at school that I don't feel like walking my way to the movie theater and looking at which movies are going. I know it is silly. I spend far more time going to various restaurants, including the one where I have to walk 40 minutes alone Liberty street. But somehow it is one thing to just waste the time for nothing and its the other thing to actually *do* something which isn't physics.
Well, I think it is probably relatively easy to change. I guess once I get in a habbit it would make it easier. After all, if I never walked my way to the movie theater and don't even know where it is, it sounds like a *big deal*. I still remember how back in California when my mom was buying groceries for me, I was surprised when I read some autistic of my age mentioning her comming to groceries store. But once I left to Minneapolis, I just started doing groceries without much effort on my part. It just happened I guess.
So, may be to get me started we can perhaps set up some goals for me to accomplish. Not too much, but basically one step at a time. Like perhaps you can send me an E mail asking me to come up with something. I think E mail will be MUCH better. If you ask it to me face to face, I would just blur out my usual response "i don't know" simply because I am too used to it. But then as time progresses, may be its possible to make a transition from E mail to face to face.
I guess this brings me to the more difficult issue of expressing my feelings. As you could tell, it is far easier for me to do it through E mail. So may be we should focus more on a transition from E mail to the face to face conversation. At this point I wouldn't feel comfortable to bring up some of it to you face to face. However, if it was you who reads what I send you on E mail and then asks me something face to face about it, it wouldn't bother me at all. Quite the opposite I would be glad to talk to you about these things. So, as I get used to talking to you about these things face to face, hopefully on the long run I will learn to bring up those things myself.
I also feel like it really helps when you share some of your own feelings. Like for instance when you talked about your depression or whatever, it really helped me to open up. Because I felt like you are open so there is nothing wrong with me being open. It also made me feel more connection with you, so I almost felt like we are on the same "side" so there is no point of hiding my feelings from you.
Finally, since we are talking about how you can help me grow around you, I guess I might as well bring up some of the mistakes you are making. I really don't want to criticise you, and I really don't want you to feel bad about it. I know how much effort you are making in trying to help me, so if anything I should be thanking you. I guess I am bringing it up just to make a further help for you, so that you wono't have to make the same mistake in future.
Like then #1 time I tend to shut down around you is when I begin to perceive that either
a)you are talking to me as a little kid. For instance, when you asked me whether or not I cry when I am sad, it kind of sounded this way. Thats why I basically lied to you how I never smile because it kind of seemed like this was the dirrection you were asking it to me.
b)When you are trying to test whether I have a certain autistic traits or not. I am not talking about feelings. I like when you are asking me about my feelings since it kind of builds the connection between us. What I am talking about is when you are specifically looking for *autism* as opposed to *me*, which kind of makes me feel like a guinny pig. Like to bring you the most recent example, I could almost tell that when you were asking me to describe the feelings for my ex, you were basically testing me whether I feel love in the same way normal people do, because you read somewhere how autisitcs don't really feel love. The real reason I weren't able to answer this question was that first, love is hard to explain, and secondly, since I felt love towards you, talking about the feelings towards my ex which I *used* to have felt kind of like denial of my current feelings. But it was too hard to tell you face to face, so I just tried to make my answer as superficial as possible, instead. Okay since we are talking about it, personally I don't think that "it is spectrum" is the only answer to this question. Yes, a lot of it "is spectrum" given that there are severely autistics who can't do as much as feed themselves. But I believe, especially if you are talking specifically about Asperger's, much more ppl with Asperger's have feelings than is generally believed. Its just they can't express them so it seems like they don't. It kind of goes back to what you brought up yourself about people being shallow and staff. People who don't have the problems me and you are having do judge others by appearances (which is what they are doing to you in math dept or whatever). So in particular if someone can't express their feelings it is kind of assumed that they don't. And this is actually one of the things that hurts me the most about people. Thats why I could relate so well to what you said about people having to play video games and staff. It *IS* true that if someone doesn't have an interest in video games it is kind of assumed that they don't have any feelings or whatever. But in reality they do; they just find video games and staff too superficial. I believe with Asperger it is basically the same thing. I do have deep emotions, such as love or whatever. But I don't show interest in the latest fashion of the day; this makes it harder for me to talk to ppl and leads them to assume that I have no feelings. I guess thats why it bothered me when you were trying to test me for whether or not I feel love, because this is one of the feelings I most definitely DO feel, so it kind of felt like you were denying that I had feelings.
c)it seems like you are talking about something (like Russia or String Theory) specifically because this is something I am interested in rather than you. In this case I would try to cut down the conversation in order not to sound self centered I guess. The same thing happends when the conversation getts one sided. If it is just *you* asking *me* something about *me* (especially some of the silly staff about me), I would feel self conscious about continuing the conversation. I know that few days earlier I told you just the opposite -- that I want you to be asking me questions to start me talking. But I guess at this point I am more comfortable around you so I guess you kind of still do have to ask me questions but not as many I guess? And again when you are talking about *you* rather than me (kind of the way you talked about your depression) it helps me to open up because in this case I can talk about myself without being self centered but rather sharing my own feelings because I can identify with yours.
Actually those three things was the REAL reason my relationship with my ex girl friend didn't work out. True, "the mom" was the reason. But, the mom issue didn't really exist untill a month or two into relationship. When Sarah was just assuming that I am normal, our whole communication was MUCH MUCH better and I felt MUCh more comfortable around her this way. However, at the point in time when she began to assume too much about my Asperger's, I kind of felt bad about it and I guess some of my unwelcome response was pretty apparent which lead to frustration on both sides in general, which made her less tolerant about hte mom issue. Of course I am just guessing, but I am 90% sure my guess is correct given the signals she was giving off or whatever.
Now I understand that you can't just assume I am normal either because it isn't the case. I guess there is no perfect answer. But I believe the "best" way of going about my Asperger, is to just assume that whatever difficulties I am having with expressing emotions or whatever, is just what I have on the outside, while down inside I feel the same way normal people feel, I just can't let it out. So I guess if you are trying to help me *doing* something, like having a conversation, I won't be offended by it because its true that a lot of things others find easy are difficult for me. But if you begin to question my feelings, such as whether I feel love or not, or simply talk to me as infantile, its different.
I guess in the long run it can help me with the independance issue, too. The less you make me feel infantile, the less I feel you are my mom, and the more am I likely to try to be on the same level with you so to speak.
Either way, as I said I weren't trying to make you feel bad about any of it. I just wanted to lay it out so that if we are to work on my improvement, you would know which things you should change.
As I said I am still hopping for the relationship some time in future once/ if I will change down the road with your help I guess. Anyway please let me know what you think.
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Anyway I got to her place at like 11:45, appologised for being so late and repeated that I was sending her that letter. She said it was okay. I asked her whether she read it or not, she said she didn't, but that she will definitely read it later.
For some reason I felt too anxious to find out what she thought about it, so I basically said briefly that what I wrote was basically the plans that I see we could be working together and I basically said I might be different person around her. EIther way I didn't take more than 5 sentenses because I already sent her a VERY long letter.
Well, she told me that "sometimes I don't know whether you are angry or not" or I don't really remember what she said. Either way, the way I understood her is that she was saying that I behave around her in such a manner that I am hard to read -- basically the part 2. So I decided to explain myself how she acts like my mom.
Right now I think it was a misinterpretation because she asked a couple of times later whether I was angry or not, and it was clear she was asking whether or not I was angry at her FOR her rejection. But obviously I don't remember what she actually said this first time word for word, so I can only speculate.
Either way, I told her about how it seems like she tests my Asperger, and she basically responded that this is the way people talk. You see, because of my Asperger, sometimes instead of appology I start to explain myself instead which brings just the opposite result, but I can't do anything about it when I am in the situation. So I started explaining myself that yah ppl do it, but she kind of does it more often or she kind of analyses me. EIther way it made her very upset.
Then we walked our way to the library and didn't really talk to each other. THen when we were seated at the library she asked me whether I was angry at the way she talked to me earlier, and by the way she asked me it was clear that she was basically trying to appologise for it and make me feel better.
I told her that I was sorry that I did it to her and that it is basically something I can't help. The way I told her was basically like this: if the board is brown and I know it is really green, there is nothing I can do to be able to see it as green. I understand that I was too judgemental on her since *after the fact* I see from her answer how it was misinterpretation and how I believe it, but I can't really help the way I see things when I am in the situation.
She responded to it that she understands, and that if I go to that Asperger clinic they would teach me how to read people better. She also asked me that if I ever feel in future that she tests me or talks to me like a child, she just wants me to confront her with it, as opposed to hiding it and shutting myself down instead. I agreed with her. I guess i briefly told her that I chose not to confront her in the past simply becaues I didn't want to hurt her feelings, but now that I realize that it would only help the situation I will do it in the future.
She then asked me yet another time whether or not I am angry at her. I told her that I am not angry, I am just very upset. And being upset isn't the same thing as anger because I think it was my fault that I kind of ruined things like that. She started to explain to me that it wasn't my fault because its my Asperger's and she also told me that if I go to the support group they might help me. I guess I was again in "explaining myself" mode so I decided to explain yet again why I think it is my fault and I told her how it was my fault that I didn't do it back in minneapolis. She basically told me that I could do it now. I responed saying that yah, but I already lost her.
What I REALLY wanted to say in the last sentense was to ASK her whether or not she is thinking over us having a relationship AFTER they help me at hte group and teach me those skills. But I didn't do it because I ALREADY ASKED HER THIS QUESTION back at the time when we were at the appartment and she just angrilly responded that she can't predict the future. So I didn't feel comfortable to ask the same question again. What I was HOPPING to see was for her to tell me "no you didn't lose me -- once they teach you teh human interaction there is still hope for us having a relatinonsip".
Well instead, her answer was that my life isn't made by one person and that appart from having a woman it is also important to have a couple of best friends, and that she considers me one of the closest friends that she has and she would be devastated if she loses me. So I guess I took it as "no".
However, afterwards I kind of not sure since one of her sentences was something alone the line taht they will help me to get alone socially better in future, but MEANWHILE she is still my best friend. So I am not sure what the word "meanwhile" means. Does it imply that afterwards we will actually have a relationship???
The other thing I am not sure of is that when she told me that they might help me to find friends other than her and have a circle of friends basically, I told her that I wouldn't be able to fall in love with any woman other than her for a while. SHe didn't tell me that I will get over it. Rather she said that my life isn't just made by a woman. So I am not sure whether it means that she agreed with taking a time to decide whether WE would be in a relationship or not. I am 80% sure I was reading into it too much, but I guess I have slight suspicion it might be the case.
Either way, once we were done talking and I began to study, she told me that there was too much light comming to her eyes and she was going to go to a different room to study. Well, I guess too much light to her eyes was a lame excuse since she could always turn away if she really wanted to. So I took it as if she didn't want to be in the same room with me, so I didn't follow her to the other room, even though it seemed as if she gestured me from the halway to come alone. But I wasn't really sure so I wanted to stay in the same room to be safe rather than sorry.
Either way, after she came back from that other room she once again asked me whether or not I was angry at her. So I guess there is *some* chance that may be she did expect me to follow her to the other room so she concluded I was angry from the fact that I stayed in the same room.
This time I decided to find yet another way of asking her about our future plans. I guess I was hopping to take advantage over the fact that she told me I was her closest friend and that she would feel devastated if she loses me. So basically what I said to her was that in August she predicts full recovery from Bipolar. So if she finds a boy friend some time after that, I would no longer be as close friend with her because I wouldn't feel comfortable in front of her boy friend. Then she got REALLY angry and said basically that she can't do anything about that, so in this case I shouldn't even be friends with her now. She also added that she can tell that I was angry at her and she doesn't want this sort of thing. Then I explained to her that I wasn't angry and the *only* reason I won't be close friends with her once she finds a boy friend is because I wouldn't want him to think that I am making her cheat on him or something like that.
She was really discusted about it and began to cry. Then I started to repeating to her that I really didn't want to hurt her and that I was simply being honest. Then after she cried for 2 minutes she told me that I have a choice that either I am friends with her and don't worry at all about the future, or else we aren't friends and it is done with. I basically told her that I will be friends with her and will *try* not to talk about it. She told me that I can talk about it, just not in the way that I did. And she also added "how would our relationship be any different if we were in a relationship, anyway?" I guess what she was referring to was that she was already feeding me, we were meeting every day and all this staff. So after some hesitation I just told her that SINCE SHE ASKED how would anything be different, MY ANSWER TO HER QUESTION is that I wouldn't be worried about her having any boy friends.
She told me that she isn't going to have any boy friends in a long time. Even in August when she fully recovers from Bipolar, she would still have to "put her life together". And she also added that she isn't even sure whether she wants to be married or not. Then I asked her that given that few days ago she mentioned how she only had 2 close friends -- myself and one girl -- then who was that male voice whom she talked to about a certain movie at 6. She told me that she wasn't going to the movie, she was just going home --- WELL IT IS PRETTY INTERESTING THAT IT HAPPENED TO BE LIKE 15 BEFORE 6, AND I ALSO HEARD THE MOVIE TO BE AT 6. When I pushed her who was that boy, she basically told me it was her brother and then she added that it wasn't of my business to ask those questions because "she is allowed to have male friends". THen I explained myself that I have nothing aganist her having male friends I just want to know what is going on because she first said she doesn't have any and then all of a sudden some male voice pops up. She basically said it was her brother and if she ever has a male friend "she will let me know" -- well the phrase "ok ... I will let you know" sounded rather angry, so it was clear it was a sarcastic way of showing how much she is discusted with that question.
Then she started crying and saying "I can't handle it". I started to repeat to her that I was sorry that I hurt her feelings. She eventually told me "you didn't hurt my feelings, I just can't handle such a (friendship)(relationship) because such things are going to come up". The bad thing is that I totally forgot whether she used the word "friendship" or "relationship" or both in that sentence.
I basically explained to her that even though I am not forcing her into relationship, I guess I was a little bit more desperate about friendship as well since I don't have any other friends. If I did, then I guess I could have "dropped her" if I weren't feeling comfortable in front of her boy friend. She interrupted and said "drop me?!?! thanks". I didn't mean that, what I meant was I wouldn't be worrying as much because there is an English expression "drop the subject". But obviously she didn't understand it. However, due to my Asperger I couldn't react appropriately and actually figure out the way of explaining it to her. So I just told her "I misphrased it anyway what I meant is ..." and hten I went on explaining how lack of friends makes me more nervous about things than most ppl.
Obviously it didn't work. It still looked like I was pushing her. So I told her that that I basically want to *know* something without actually pushing a person to do it, even though it might seem this way. I told her that in my courses I do the same thing if there is some really important test sometimes I might want to know my grade before it is due. She kind of superficially smiled at my description of the way I burge into professor's office to find my grades ahead of time and pretended to sort of understand me and superficially change her mind to some extend about what she told me, and very reluctantly asked me whether or not I want to meet the next day at 9 AM. I told her yes. However I could tell she wasn't really interested by the way she said it. We were meeting every day at 9 thats why she asked.
I had a meeting with my advisor tomorrow and I had a lot of work to do on my paper, and incidentally I met my advisor at 10, which I completely forgot about at the time I was talking to her. So I just called her and left a message that I couldn't come at 9, but I can come at like 11. It *woud of* been okay if nothing else happened since she did the same thing to me a couple of times when plans were changing. However, she didn't respond to my message so I just figured she wasn't interested.
MARCH 28
Once I was done with my advisor I simply went home to sleep since I was working on the paper all night long and she didn't call me back that it was okay with her I come at 11.
Before going to bed though I decided to E mail her an explanation of what I really meant when I said I would drop her. WHat I wrote was this:
**************************************************************************
I am really sorry I came across as pushy today. As I said I wasn't mad. I guess disappointed or upset, but definitely not mad. I guess I am probably mad at myself but not at you.
I also thought I should explain what I meant when I said I would "drop you". Due to Asperger, when I am speaking sometimes I can use wrong words to express myself whenever I feel too excited to *say* it. So anyways, here is what I meant. When you are really worried about a subject, when you say you wand to "drop it", it basically means to stop worrying about it. So, if I had lots and lots of friends, I would definetely NOT actually *drop you*, but I guess I wouldn't be as upset may be. Thats what I meant by "drop" -- I would still be your friend, but not upset about relationship not working or whatever. Well, to be even more precise, I would still be upset since you mean something really special to me. But I guess I won't be *as* upset. If right now I feel like I just lost 100 thousands, in the other situation it would only be 10 thousands. But, relatively speaking, I would be worried less, so to stress the point I was trying to make, I said I would "drop the subject", and instead of saying "drop the subject", I said "drop you". I hope this makes sense.
Either way, I really hope we can still be friends despite the disagreements that we had.
******************************************************************************
After I was done sleeping, at around 2, I didn't get any answer to it. So I decided to send her yet another E mail where I explained the whole situation. It went like this:
******************************************************************************
Okay, I thought over the conversation that we had yesterday and how things had built up, and I believe there is something about my conversational style you might not neceserely realize. It was certainly not my intention to make you feel bad, or to start an argument, or whatever. I guess the reason it came off this way was basically that my Asperger brain is wired in a logical way which makes it hard for me to present my thoughts in a respectful fashion simply because being respectful isn't about logic, while I am too anxious to "prove my case".
So like in math, if someone tells you that your solution to the problem is incorrect, while you still think it is correct, the best way to go about it is to simply attack all the flaws in the other person's argument. No one getts offended by that as long as it is about math and not about life. I guess sometimes I approach life in a mathematical fashion. Even though I do have feelings, I kind of take math as a means for an end whenever I get confused about things otherwise, even though I know math isn't working in a real life.
So anyway, what yesterday happened was the following. Like when I first walked into your appartment and we began talking about things, at some point you said that at times you don't know whether I am angry or not. So I guess my first instinct was to defend myself and the way to do it is to tell you exactly why I am angry at you, since it would imply that I don't get angry for no reason and hence would take away the "charges". So this brought me to telling you how you treat me as a kid and staff. I guess right now I realize how it was rather obvious it would of offended you more than anything else. But I guess back then my thinking process was that once the "charges" against me are dropped, you all of a sudden would begin to like me more. So I guess ironically I got just the opposite to what I was striving to get. I wanted you to feel more comfortable with me once you realize that I don't get angry for nothing but *only* for you treating me as a kid; but at the end of the day it was diametrically opposite reaction.
So as I said I am really really sorry that I did it to you. As I said I do understand why you got upset AFTER THE FACT; but I didn't really realize what I was doing WHILE it was happening. Its basically the way my brain is wired so it isn't something I can help without a lot of training.
I guess the thing about asking you to predict the future is similar in nature. I basically wanted *facts* in front of me, and weren't exactly realizing that the asking for *facts* would have negative emotional component to it.
So once again I am sorry for what had happened. i really hope we can continue to be friends because I do like you a lot and it hurt me to see how you were almost crying as a consequence of various things I was telling you.
*****************************************************************************
Like in 10 minutes after I sent it to her I got her answer, here is what she wrote:
*****************************************************************************
Roman,
Its ok. I think we should both just forget about it and continue to hang out
together. I just think we both had the wrong impression about the other side
and it ended up solving nothing.
Well, I am planning to go to library on wed at 9. Tomorrow i have class pretty
much all day.
I am sorry too if i made you feel bad. I didnt mean to.
anne
*****************************************************************************
I didn't want to pester her, so I waited till it was like 9 PM before responding. When I responded I decided to take advantage over the fact that she wasn't as mad to try to ask her what was going on. Here is what my E mail said:
***************************************************************************
I am really sorry for doing it but my mind always getts stuck on anything negative that happends to me and I wouldn't move on untill I disect it I guess. So I guess it is best if I just write out to you exactly what I want to ask you, than for me to continue to be thinking about it over and over in my mind and not enjoy your company because of it.
I guess I am not trying to argue I basically want to know exactly what went on your mind because this would prevent me from continue accusing myself with "if only" types of statements. Kind of if I get a bad grade I would want to know what would I got if I haven't screwed up just this one assignment. So I really hope you don't take it as an argument but more like a quest for info.
I am really sorry for doing it again, but here it goes:
1)I read over the letter that you sent me, and in part 3 you said I am used to women taking care of me. Then at the end of part 3 you said you might be wrong and you wanted my input on what I EXPECT from the relationship. So I guess the word EXPECT somehow makes me wonder which is exactly the case. Are you talking about the kind of relationship I would PREFER, or are you talking about the kind that I am capable of at this point. I guess those are two different issues. My experience with Sarah has shown that I wasn't able to make it even. HOWEVER, I really hated that relationship FOR the fact that she was my mom -- that was actually one of the main reasons why I weren't calling her for two months in a row once I left to Ann Arbor. I liked the beginning of relationship with Sarah much better since it was more even. For the same reason I am glad I am not in UC Berkeley for graduate school because I would like some distance from my real mom as well. So I am not LOOKING for a mom. I do want to try to make it both sided. I guess I am just hopping that somehow my personality might change once I get a fresh start with some totally different person.
2)When I just walked into your appartment, I started off by saying that I might change around you as time goes on. You almost agreed with it; however when I brought up a child issue things went sore. However, reading over the E mail that you sent me, you never mentioned the child issue. So what would of happened IF I avoided bringing up anything other than 1, 2 or 3 in an E mail. Would you have agreed that I can work on part 3, since you did agree how I might change with your influence, and especially since at the end of part 3 you told me that you aren't sure whether you are completely off the mark on that one and wanted my input?
3)You kept telling me how the autism center can help me. So if this is the case, why are you still not wanting a relationship down the road WHEN they would presumably help me? I know you mentioned depression, but you said it will be over in half a year.
4)When we were talking about part 1, and I told you how I would be understanding since I know it is your disease basically, you told me it would still bother YOU since you would be worried how you are hurting me. Then I told you that I won't be hurt by it. You said to it that I never had your condition so I wouldn't understand. But from my perspective it isn't necesery to *have* a condition to understand it. I mean I understand ppl on a wheel chair even though I never been on one. So if you completely shut me down for a week because of your depression and you tell me its depression, I mean why would I be offended any more than I would be offended at someone on a wheel chair for not being able to take a run with me?
5)I notice that in part 2 you said you are willing to wait as long as it takes for it to get to know me better. What did you mean by this sentence? Were you basically saying that if part 2 were the only issue you would of put a relationship on hold, but due to part 3 it isn't gonna happen?
6)I notice that at the end of the E mail you said that no one knows the future so may be the relationship can happen in a year. However, after I accused you of treating me like a kid, you basically said relationshpi is too much for you, period. So, could it be it was my fault that I told you you are treating me like a kid, which basically prevented us from EVER having a relationship?
7)In part 3 you said the way you know that I am not independant is that I weren't able to do some of it on my own. What were you referring to in particular?
Also, how can I do anything on my own -- I mean life is about human interaction so its like a cycle that I need to do something on my own in order get to know ppl, but I can't do anythign without knowing ppl.
******************************************************************************
She basically responded to it like this:
******************************************************************************
Roman, I understand your need to dwell and talk about it, but I am finished
discussing the issue. If you want to continue to send me emails and vent that
is fine, but dont expect a response. I have too much work to do and i have
already explained what I can. If you still want to be my friend that is fine,
I will be at the library at 9 tomorrow, we can meet there from now on.
anne
******************************************************************************
SO YOU SEE, THE FACT THAT BEFORE WE MET AT HER PLACE AND NOW WE MEET AT THE LIBRARY IS AN INDICATION THAT I AM NOT AS CLOSE FRIEND TO HER AS I USED TO.
MARCH 30
We were supposed to meet this day, but I decided to pretend to have a nervous breakdown to make her feel sorry for me I guess. I guess I felt that she would decide that I REALLY loved her since this disagreement caused me a nervous breakdown. Well I did feel pretty sad about losing her like that. But I was still taking care of myself and doing physics and staff, but when she called me to meet I just decided to deliberately make up a scene how I couldn't really describe which part of the library I was at or understand exactly which part of the library she was waiting for me (the truth was that I was at home). When she told me she would wait for me up at the front, I guess I had to say *something* since I was at home and I told her I was at the library, so I just told her that my dad called me and i had to buy a phone card to talk to him (which happened to be the truth).
Then a while later I realized that if it was taked too seriously, then she might call a medical help for me and then they will have my mother's number as emergency contact. On the other hand, if she did realize I was making it up, then she would simply be even angrier at me as opposed to being sorry. So I called her again and left messages appologising for it basically saying that I wasn't really sure what I was doing but now I talked to my dad and ready to see her. She didn't reply anything to it.
Then I sent her an E mail that went like this:
**************************************************************************
Okay I am not really sure whether I could really say it clearly on the phone or not. I guess I was kinda at the library but things were hectic I kept forgetting staff at home plus my dad called me at definitely *not* a good time when my cell phone was almost discharged plus I didn't have a wallet with me to buy a phone card. I kinda kept the wallet in my jacket but today I decided not to put it on because it was warm. Either way I am really sorry I made you wait. I definitely didn't mean to. I totally realize I should have found you first to let you know what is going on, but I guess I was too preoccupied with other things. Its too much to explain I am not sure whether you really want to hear it or not. I just wanted to say that I am sorry. I really hope you weren't waiting for me for few hours in a row. I realize you are really busy yourself and I shouldn't be wasting your time like this. It was totally my fault.
****************************************************************************
MARCH 31
I did get a response from her:
****************************************************************************
Awww, Roman!
Its ok, I was just worried. You sounded really upset on the phone and I really
didnt understand what was going on. I really miss seeing you. Lets study
tomorrow for sure at the library... want to go at 9?
anne
****************************************************************************
I guess my original plan was to make her feel sorry that she did all this to me. However, I realized that on one hand I had to explain why I was upset since otherwise it would seem neglegent. On the other hand, I couldn't really tell her that I was upset because of her since it would be pushing the issue when she already said no to it. So I chose to find other reasons for being upset, but at the same time there will be room for suspecting that I reacted this way TO HER since I don't normally lose my text books and wallet. So I responded to her message like this:
****************************************************************************
Thanks so much for the letter. I was so worried that I upset you. This friendship really means a lot to me and I am so glad it wasn't the case.
And I am sorry for sounding upset on the phone. I should have put more effort into being friendly because it wasn't fair for you. I really should have!! !
I guess it was a list of things that built up over few days -- first staying in bed half of the previous day -- I mean till 3 PM or something like that; then losing a wallet and few textbooks, then all of a sudden finding out my advisor isn't wanting to work with me because of slow progress, then my dad's phone call which I was so paranoid about for a completely wrong reasons (he only called me about the paper I was publishing, nothing more). I dunno its really hard to explain. I just completely messed up that whole entire day; not just with you.
I really hope I didn't make you wait for *too* long. How long were you waiting??? Did you actually get anything done, or were you just waiting for me the whole time?
Either way, I am more than happy to meet you tomorrow at 9.
******************************************************************************
The thing about my advisor was true, but it happened on thursday rather than wednesday so its like cause happening after the effect. My dad's call was also true. But the thing about losing textbooks and wallet and staying in bed half a day was a lie. I guess I lied like that because I knew she had bipolar so she might realize what could be a reason for staying in a bed half day long. ANyways, her reply was like this:
******************************************************************************
Oh, Roman, I am so sorry all those things happened to you at once. I am sorry
you are having a rough time. Well, the wallet, maybe it will show up. I have
lost my wallet many times. what were the textbooks? You may be able to check
them from the library.
Well, your advisor lost out on being an advisor to a very intelligent person.
Dont feel discouraged by that. You will make your own progress at your own
speed. You are super intelligent. I dont think people have any clue.. i mean
ANY clue how hard it is to try to keep up wiht schoolwork and always be
fighting a battle with an illness. Its tough. But you need to not be so hard
on yourself. You are doing a really good job. I am very impressed by you. I
know things will get better. OK, see you tomorrow, call me if you are feeling
bad tonite and we can talk.
anne
*****************************************************************************
I basically answered her like that -- which was the truth, no need to lie about this one:
***************************************************************************
I won't blame my advisor. He understands why I get stuck untill I understand something and he will pass me for the supervised research course that I am taking, but there is nothing anyone can do about the reality that I have to make a progress within a reasonable time frame.
Either way, I just decided to give up on the string theory business and do quantum field theory instead which is fundamental enough for me, but doesn't require that I learn all that new staff which I can't understand. I just perswaded him to try me out on an entirely different topic. I won't be payed in the summer and probably not in the fall either. But this way there is a hope of things to work out down the road. Plus if there is progress in summer they can give me a grading position in the fall.
I think it is all for the best anyway. At this point my age worries me more than the topic of my ph.d. so I am glad at least there is some hope for me to actually be done in 2 years.
*****************************************************************************
I guess I did overemphasize money situation given that I am 90% sure I WILL get a GSI position. I guess the reason I did it is that it would encourage her to continue to feed me for free the way she did in the past. But I made sure it is the truth since I did mention in the E mail that they WILL pay me if I work well in the summer.
APRIL 1
I did meet her, but I met her at 9:25 and not really 9. I first told her I would have to go to see my advisor in half an hour. Then I just decided to leave the room right away. She later E mailed me "why did you leave on me" and I replied to her E mail saying that I thought it was 9 but then I looked at my watch and realized it was already 9:30. I guess I sent it to her half an hour before class that we both have. So obviously she didn't have time to respond within that half an hour. So after class I told her something DIFFERENT -- I told her I had to make last minute corrections to the paper I was going to show to my advisor. She was smiling all the way through so I guess she wasn't *too* upset, she merely told me that I should have told her that I was leaving. Then she asked me whether or not I want to meet her at the afternoon. I said yes. Then I added that I wouldn't be "walking out" the way I did because I don't have anythign planned for afternoon. She asked me what I meant by "working out" (she probably heard it as woRking out) I just told her I wouldn't be repeating the same scenario. THen it appeared that she was rather sad and she said "okay I will call you when I am comming to the library". Well she didn't call me yet.
Then when I came next day I had an appointment with my advisor THIS TIME IT WAS REAL ONE, and I walked out of the library without saying bye. So she thought I was mad at her. After I explained that I "forgot" to say bye due to my Asperger, she pretended to agree with it, but she still didn't talk to me for few days.
On April 2 I wrote her asking if she is mad at me
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay I hate to be pestering you once I already explained what went wrong. I guess I am too scared of losing ppl since it happened to me way too many times over similar misunderstandings. So I guess I just wanted to ask you whether or not we are still friends after I left the room without telling you good bye or anything. I really don't want to be implying that you owe me something. I think I am the one who owes you a lot. I guess I just want to *know* what is going on (it would be better for me to know that we aren't friends any more than to continue to wonder) and you are the only person I can ask, so this brings me to asking it to you. Anyway please let me know either way.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
She replied
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roman, i am not mad at you, i guess i just thought you didnt want to hang out
with me or you were busy the past couple days. We can go to the library
togetrher tomorrow if you want, I am going at 8 though. If that is too early
for you i can meet you later. I am not mad at all. I thought you were mad at
me!!
anne
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When we met again I appologised again for "acting mad" and asked her does she REALLY believe that I wasn't mad at her. But instead she asked me differently "did you atually do it because you were mad". I said no. She then asked "but are you mad at me anyway". I said "not really". She said "why not REALLY, so you mean a little bit, why a little bit..." Either way this led me to talk again about that email and relationship. At first she just told me that I was PERFECT and she is the one screwed up with her depression and just stays out of relatioships for that reason. She was also trying to chear me up by talking about the sexual aspects of my relationship with my ex and whgat it is i like about her more than about my ex.
Later in the afternoon I brought up the subject again. And asked myself about independance issue and how the fact that my mom shelters me is about MY MOM and not about me. I added that I can't "stand up". She said "isn't it again a confidence hting that you can't stand up". Then I told her that how much louder can I yell at my mom if I am already yelling at my mom and it does't work. She told me that she doesn't care about my mom. Then I aked her what does she care about then. Then she brought up the fact taht she cooks for me after she RELUCTANTLY PRETENDED to agree with me that "all moms are like that" after I INSISTANTLY kept repeating the issue wiht my mom. I explained to her that it was her idea to feed me and I am used to not eating regularly. She then RELUCTANTLY said that may be it was her mistake. And then she will write another email again once the semester is over because she was too busy. She said she will write email in April 26.
Then I sent her few more explanations given that she says she will write email anyway:
APRIL 5 I wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, since you are going to write it to me anyway I guess I have an excuse to fill few more gaps in where we might misunderstand each other. Okay I am trully sorry for putthing you though all this. The point is taht it is really hard to contain and if I do contain it for a while, sooner or later I will have to say it anyway, and as I will beat around the bush untill saying it, it will only cause more misunderstandings, as it happened earlier.
1)The whole issue about August is as follows. I do NOT want you to predict your recovery or anything like that. I guess my whole entire question is like this. You do NOT know whether/ when you will recover. So lets say it is random variable. Likewise, if you do recover, you do not know whether you want a relationship, or whether you will need some time to put your life together. So this is another random variable. So we are talking about probabilities. The probability that you will be in A relationship at SOME point in future is p. The probability that you will be in relationship WITH ME at some point in future is q. Now, p>0, while q=0. So THIS is where it is my fault.
2)Regarding the jealosity issue... I guess I am not a jealous kind in general -- for instance, Sarah had a close friend Tom while we were in a relationship and it didn't bother me at all. In fact, I would consider myself pretty naive because when my first landlord in Ann Arbor was basically taking advantage of me, it didn't bother me at all; I was only bothered with my mom's paranoid behavior about it.
3)HOWEVER, ONCE I BEGIN TO PERCEIVE THAT SOMETHING IS *MY* FAULT IT MAKES ME LESS TRUSTING SIMPLY BECAUSE I START FEELING ALMOST LIKE I DESERVE TO BE TREATED IN A WRONG WAY. So in a way I feel like a criminal who has to ask whom are they talking about just to make sure it isn't about him or whatever.
4)Again, the time that I DO stop trusting people is when I begin to perceive my fault in the picture. So I guess my world view is basically like this. Everyone is 100% honest with me, UNLESS I do something wrong. If I do do something wrong then people will stop being as honest, but it would be totally my fault since I was the one who did #1 thing wrong (after all, I was the one who made them uncomfortable, and if someone drunk on the street would make me uncomfortable wanting money or whatever I would be equally dishonest when I would say I don't have any) .
5)BUT the fact that it is my fault will make me MORE confrontational rather than less so. You see, I weren't confrontational at all with my first landlord in Ann Arbor EVEN WHEN I did realize how she was taking advantage of me. The reason it didn't bother me is that it was HER and not me. ON THE OTHER HAND, IF I do do something wrong, then it becomes me, so once I realize how much I just missed out I want to undo my own mistake, and the process of undoing the mistake #1 leads to 10 more mistakes because people don't usually confront each other about what goes in each other's mind. Then once I made 10 more mistakes then I look back at the time when there was only 1 mistake, realize that the mistake #1 wasn't all that bad after all and that the other 10 are the ones I have to undo, and then undoing the other 10 leads to 100 more mistakes, so its basically a chain reaction.
Like for instance half a year ago I was chatting to girl named Theresa at www.americansingles.com and we had a lot in common. Then she was busy due to the preparation for Christmass or whatever and haven't had much to say. I guess I was bored so I just decided to play a joke on her and I asked her whether she would like to listen to Moonlight Sanate and referred her to extremely Zionist website that had moonlight sanate in its background in one of its pages http://www.masada2000.org/solution.html. This led her to ask me about my opinions on Israeli Palestinian conflict, and I just began preaching that whole entire end-times staff to explain biblically why I believe Israel belongs to the Jews or whatever since it is fulfillment of end time prophesies. After that day she weren't talking to me much, because she was preparing for christmass. However, I kept asking her over and over whether or not I did something to anger her. She kept telling me over and over that everythign is fine, but I kept not believing her.
Now you see, looking back, she became less talkative a couple of weeks BEFORE that racist website I sent her. However, the time I started not to believe her was AFTER I sent her that web site because that was the point when it became my fault.
6)I guess right now I perceive it was my fault that I didn't explain to you the issue with women taking care of me properly, because if I did, then I wouldn't felt pressured to talk about jealosy or about any other issue I was bringing up that made you cry.
7)Again, IF I explained to you properly the confidence issue, THEN THE JEALOSY WOULDN"T OF BEEN THERE, PERIOD. Because as I said, it didn't bother me that Sarah was friends with Tom and I were't asking Sarah exactly whom she was talking to every time she used the phone. So in our situation I just feel sorry for our misunderstanding over E mail because I believe that the issue about jealosy was the consequence of issue number 1.
Thats part of the reason why I said that I was contemplating about waiting untill I go to California before sending it to you. I could almost predict that the E mail that I sent you would ruin the rest of our friendship if your response would make me feel guilty about it, even in some minor way.
I am not saying angry, I am saying guilty. Anger is much easier to deal with actually. Like when I am angry at my mom, all I have to do is yell at her and I am used to it. But when I feel guilty that I didn't get a welcomming response to my E mail, then I didn't even feel comfortable being in the same room with you, let alone having a conversation with you about anything OTHER than the subject of the E mail, so I figured I better talk to you about it right there so that I would perhaps feel more comfortable.
But it was a big mistake that I even talked about it because the way my mind works is that sometimes when I read something I insert my own thoughts into it and only a while later the real meaning of the E mail would "sink in". So for instance, only a day or 2 later did I actually realize that in part 3 you were asking me whether or not I expect to be taken care of. Upon the first reading, it just seemed to me you were talking about the issue of hiding things from people. I guess part of the reason I misread it this way is that *I* knew it was the issue of hiding, so I ASSUMED you thought the same. So then I went on to explain that the reason I act such and such is when you treat me like a kid. I guess I do get such a feeling SOMETIMES, but not as often as it could come across.
Yah, so I think IF I were to wait till going to california before sending it, it would all been different since I would of had plenty of time to reread what you wrote and actually answer your questions 1,2 and 3 instead of bringing up issues about jealosy or about you treating me like a kid WHICH WOULDN"T OF BEEN THERE!! !
But I guess right now *I might as well* talk to you about it since I *already* came across very confrontational and already hurt your feelings, so right now I jsut want to be reassured I didn't missed out *as* much due to the mistakes that I made.
So I guess all I am saying is please ignore everything I told you after that E mail. I was basically a different person as a consequence of mistake number one. If not for that E mail, we would of probably felt just as comfortable in each other's company as we did the first week, and perhaps we would of felt even more and more comfortable around each other as time went on.
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CLARIFICATION THAT I ADDED:
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Just to make myself more clear, I guess I still look forward for that letter, because it will stop me from making 100 guesses all day long on what you MIGHT be thinking.
I guess what I wanted to say when I asked you to ignore the things I told you, was that I wish I could bo back to the day when we only had to talk about 1,2 and 3 and not about 4,5, and 6. I just feel really sorry that instead of actually reading what you wrote and having a good communication about it from the start, I instead made it worse by telling you how you aren't allowed to be friends with boys or how you always treat me like a kid. I am sorry that I did it. I should have read it slowly and came to see you an hour later if I had to. It would have made our communication much better.
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Then she was ignoring me for a while so I assumed she was mad at me. SO on April 12 I wrote her saying:
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I was just going to ask you whether you still want to hang around together right now. I just noticed you might be a little bit busy with your final and staff, so I don't want to be an inconvenience or whatever. I do miss you a lot and I do wish we could spend more time together. I just understand how sometimes a person can need time to themselves because I have been there, so I guess I just want you to do what is best for you. If you do want a time to yourself, then no hard feelings, we can alwasy hang out together once the semester is over in two short weeks. So please let me know either way.
By the way, thank you so much for going to write the 5 long E mails! It really means a lot to me. You obviously do care about me a lot and have a lot of patience with me, when I didn't make it easy. It really means a lot to me, regardless of what the E mails will actually say. To be honest I do feel the despreration over the whole issue, but I just feel very thankful that you are so understanding about it. And don't worry that it will be 29-th and not now. I understand completely that those E mails will take a portion of mental effort on your part and it is best to postpone till the finals are over. Anyway I wish you good luck on your finals! Partial differential equations can be tough.
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To my surprise her reply was REALLY friendly with LOVE at the end:
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thanks romie
that means alot to me but i do still want to hang around. aftr tomorrow should
be much better. I will rite more later but i am still working on this project
for tomorrow
take care
love anne
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Then when we met she was again REALLY friendly. She aked to look into my eyes. She told me how much she missed me, asked me why I weren't calling her. I told her I was thinking she was mad at me. She said that how would she ever be mad at me and that if I need something I should always call her. She invited me to come over to her house the next day.
Next day I came over to her house and she was showing me her appartment. There was something from one of her male friends. And she was careful to tell me that it wasn't her boy friend and that she knew him much earlier than she ever knew me (by the way few days before that she made it a point to keep reassuring me she doesn't have a boy friend by introducing me to one of her female friends so that I can be sure it isn't a guy. I even told her she doesn't have to, but she said that "she would be more comfortable this way because you think staff in your head when it isn't true" and smiled).
Then she added that she isn't going to have boyfriend for a while because of her depression, so I shouldn't be worried about it so much. She also said "by the way you will make a good boy friend". And then she asked me, just because she was in a chatty mood, whether it is my jealosy or the fact that I feel uncomfortable. I told her it is both. Then I decided to seize an apportunity and quesiton her about what she meant "you will make a good boy friend". At first she said that I will, I just *might* not satisfy her SPECIFIC needs. Then I again asked her about the issue of independance. And this time she said it is just her depression. So I asked her when she recovers will I have a chance to be her boy friend. She said "OF COURSE" and added "do I have a chance to be your girl friend" I said yes.
She also invited me to come over to her appartment after class to watch a movie.
But you see it was April 15 and I still haven't completely done taxes because I had few quesitons. So I asked her a couple of questions that I had. I DIDN"T MEAN FOR HER TO DO THEM FOR ME. I SIMPLY WANTED SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ANSWERED. But she offered to do them FOR me even though I never asked it. But as I kept repeating over and over how I weren't sure of particular things she wrote, she became irritated and told me to go ask someone else. Then I pretended to bypass it by "okay I understand, now how about other qustions". She started doing them again. I was sititng all nervous. At first she kept smiling at it to make me feel better. I appologised for making her do them. She accepted appology and said that I help her too sometimes. But then for some reason I began laughing at something I wrote to a certain website 3 years ago. It had nothing to do with her, obviosly. It is that sometimes I have a habbit of remembering things and laughing at them. At first she shook her head. Then I continued laughing. Then all of a sudden she became really upset and siad "do you know you owe me a big time for doing it" and "that is one reason I won't ever date you, you are like little kid". Then I felt a desperation started repeating to her the very thing that she said herself that may be I should help her too. I also added the thing about my courses that prevented me from doing them, etc. She just kept countering my every point by saying that she has courses too. Then I said that it isn't the issue of independance (because I know she doesn't date me because of lack of independance and she also just said she doesn't date me because of taxes) because other things I do do by myself, I just never done taxes before. She said "I think it is a little bit of both". Then I again start saying "I am sorry" but she weren't saying "it is okay" but instead was deliberately pausing in order make sure NOT to say it.
Then I had to go to class. After the class was over I met her in a couple of hours I started swearing at her by saying "I have one more quesiton about f*** taxes" in order to let out my frustration. She said "what taxes" and then I played dam* by pretending not to understand her question and when I did "understand" I told her that I sent some profanity to a certain website and they threatened to report me to ISP so I was mad at them and not at her.
Then she was asking me how my class was going and tried to have a conversation. But I still had some anger in me so I was deliberately rude by cutting every question of hers and insisting she answers a particular "f*** tax question NOW". She just told me she will have to get home to find the relevant info so she will email me. PLEASE NOTE: WE WERE PLANNNING TO WATCH A MOVIE IN HER HOUSE. So the fact that she said she will EMAIL me taxes implicitely implies that that plan was changed, because I made her mad by asking her to do taxes for me.
Then in afternoon I wrote her an email with lenghty explanation on how it was my fault I screwed up my studies and then sacrificed taxes by trying to catch up on my studies and that made me want to "undo" it by making someone else do taxes to me:
(SEE CONTINUATION BELOW)
Last edited by Roman on 27 Sep 2005, 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
27 Sep 2005, 7:37 am
27 Sep 2005, 9:30 am
27 Sep 2005, 11:03 am
27 Sep 2005, 1:40 pm
27 Sep 2005, 4:09 pm
28 Sep 2005, 2:01 am
28 Sep 2005, 11:28 am
28 Sep 2005, 5:46 pm
PhoenixKitten
Veteran
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,609
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
28 Sep 2005, 9:35 pm
Good gravy! You mean the OTHER thread was long winded?! As opposed to this one, which is CLEARLY very concise... 
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