arguing with an AS partner

Post Reply New Topic

Hi everyone,
Slight back story before I explain the problem. I've been dating my partner for close to 4 years but only the last two have we been serious as I could never figure out why he kept walls up. We moved in together about a year ago and I have kids from a previous marriage which he helps with 100%. I don't have any issues with that aspect of our relationship. He has AS and is completely okay with the fact that he doesn't understand body language, emotions, or other non verbal cues. I have brought up counseling as a way to work through communication problems but he says that he is perfect the way he is and he sees no reason to change, people can take it or leave it.

The issue is arguing with him, mostly trying to get him to see where I am coming from. Every time we disagree it becomes him accusing me of saying he isn't good enough or is a failure. He also accuses me of being overly emotional and trying to use my emotions to manipulate him. All disagreements end with me walking away and contemplating where I can compromise my emotions based on his perspective and then apologizing to him for the fight. I can't even offer feedback without him taking it as a rejection of who he is. For example we had a fight about making rules for arguing. My requested rules were:
1. We talk about issues when they come up so we can move on (his response was that I don't get to force him to talk if he isn't ready. I tried to compromise saying that the person who didn't want to talk could say so and then establish a time frame for discussion i.e. "I need a few hours to think, lets talk tonight" but he still says that's forcing him to compromise because he would then have to talk about it before he was ready (therefore making himself uncomfortable) for the sake of my comfort)
2. We don't act like an a** just because the other person did (his response was "if you act like one then it's fair for me to treat you exactly the way you treated me, if you don't want me to act like one don't be one first")
His requested rule:
1. Emotion doesn't outweigh logic, if he has a logical reason for whatever the thing is then he doesn't have to change his stance because I'm upset. He is not required to compromise because I'm upset and because I am illogical when upset he gets to decide if its a logic situation or an emotion situation.

How do I get him to consider my view on issues when we argue when he refuses to try and compromise with me? When he makes all the arguments into me saying he isn't good enough or is failing I'm forced to sacrifice my stance because I don't want him to feel that way, but that means I feel that he doesn't see my emotional needs as important as his. I'm feeling really neglected emotionally these days and don't know how to tell him without it coming across as me accusing him of neglecting me intentionally.

Imagine if you had something about you, and that because of this "thing" you grew up always being made fun of, always being put down, left behind - basically shunned by society.

From what I have gathered, that's sort of how someone on the spectrum feels. They have always been different, they know it, and even though they may be really super smart, they still have that nagging really low self-esteem. As a result, many of them develop a wall of defensiveness, sensitive to anything that may be perceived as criticism.

I've got an AS partner, and if there's something important I want to approach him with, I find that writing it and sending it to him in an email or a text is helpful. Talking face to face involves a whole crap ton of eye contact, facial expressions, tone of voice, etc. Us NTs think nothing of that because we can send a silent message to each other with something as simple as a raised eyebrow. But imagine what that must be like for someone who has a communications disorder. I imagine it may be like someone from a completely different culture screaming at me in their language. I would have no idea how to respond!

It might also be useful to try as best you can to leave out the emotions/feelings part and to be as pragmatic as possible. Explain why something upsets you. I can't think of a good example off the top of my head on this one. Maybe you're upset because he keeps leaving his socks on the floor and it makes you feel like you're his mother/slave/maid - whatever, you know what I mean. When my partner and I have these discussions I try really hard to get to the point and separate out the emotion part. For example: When you leave your dirty socks on the floor it makes more work for me to gather them all up, as compared to you putting them in the hamper. When you put them in the hamper, everything is easy to pick up and I get my job done faster.

Anyway hope this helps out.

Yes, please

I try to separate myself from my emotions and I do really well (at least compared to how I used to be) except when it comes to 2 things: his ex (whom he stays in regular contact with) and extra curricular activity feed back. I know he is a good person and he cares about me/us and he isn’t trying to cause me to be hurt, I just don’t know how to explain to him that compromise isn’t bad and my emotional needs are as important as his logical needs.

Well, I think we'd need to know more about those 2 things.

1. His ex. What exactly is it about his regular contact that bothers you?

2. Extra curricular activity feedback - this needs further explanation.

His behaviour is throwing up all kinds of red flags for me.
The biggies are his unwillingness to compromise, or to consider changing his behaviour when it hurts you.
He's going to keep on hurting you and he'll never understand why because he lacks the empathy or self-awareness, and because he doesn't understand what he's doing to you he can never change.

But you should know, I'm writing this from the immediate aftermath of separating from my husband (who sounds very similar to your guy), so I might be biased.

I'm withholding judgement until I know more about the 2 things she is concerned about. Specifically about the being in contact with an ex. It is entirely possible to remain in friendly contact with an ex and have it mean absolutely nothing. But like everything else, there are shades to this. Is the contact excessive, is it more than friendly, etc. On one hand it could be jealousy and low self esteem issues on her end and on the other it could be an unwillingness to let go of a lost love on his. Impossible to tell with what she's written however.

So the issues with his ex are that they lived together for the first 2 years we were dating. The reason they did this is because she wasn’t working and didn’t have health insurance so by living together she could stay on his. The reason they broke up had to do with infertility (on her side) which led to depression, anger etc. He didn’t tell me she was living there, just kept me at arms length which made me feel sh***y about myself. She still texts him about things going on in her life, I appreciate the fact that he doesn’t see any issues with staying friends but he has admitted he doesn’t discuss that we are living together or raising kids together because he doesn’t want to cause her another breakdown. So all she knows is he is dating someone. I’ve told him it’s fine if he doesn’t want to tell her about the kids so she doesn’t have a melt down about him “having kids” when she doesn’t but he needs to be 100% honest that we are planning our lives together. He argues her mental health issues are more important than my insecurities. I think if she would be that upset by him moving on she isn’t over him and then it’s even more important he is honest with her if he is staying in contact.

The extra curricular feedback is more about the fact that he seems to have a checklist (kiss for this about of time etc) and whenever I try to do something different he takes it as me saying what we do now isn’t good enough.

I will admit that he has compromised on some things in the past when he has eventually realized how big of an issue it is for me but these two things have been ongoing and he won’t budge.

I agree with MrsPeel that there are several red flags here. People need to compromise in a relationship and disregarding each other's emotions and "logic" is not healthy. I think he will need to work on this, and he cannot use his AS as an excuse for not wanting to.

Regarding his ex, I suspect that might be a polyamory thing. He probably still has feelings for her, and feel he need to help & support her. I can see how you might dislike this, but I doubt you will be able to change his mind & behavior related to this. It's not something he might be able to compromise with, and so you might have to agree that you cannot make a compromise on it.

Well, I can tell you how it worked out (or not) for me, in case that helps.

In my marriage, my husband would rarely compromise on anything, he insisted on getting his own way. He would give in on things that were so important to me that I was willing to kick up a massive fuss and never give in to him (despite his "logical" arguments and invalidation of my feelings). Trouble is, it's a lot of work to get through to him how important something is to me if he sees things differently, every time it's a major battle, so most of the time I'd go along with him to make life easier.

Fast forward a decade or two later, and over time I've given in to him on so many little things, they've accumulated, so that I'm no longer living a life anything like the way I would have wanted. I've tried to change myself too much to suit his needs, without him ever doing the same for me, and all it did was make me miserable and depressed at the loss of control over my own life.

Sorry if that sounds too negative, as I said I'm just in the process of separating from him, and it's a mess because we'd been together 20+ years. And if I'm honest, the marriage has given me a lot - I've become much more able to stand up for myself, much less accepting of emotional blackmail and excuses for poor behaviour - I just wish I could have got to this place years ago (preferably before we had kids together).

So I guess my suggestion is to be careful with deciding what you are willing to put up with. Little worries and annoyances can become a big thing over time if not addressed to your satisfaction right now. And don't expect him to change.

I should probably add that my husband is not diagnosed AS.
I'm the one with AS, but he also has some kind of issue with lack of empathy (I think it's narcissistic personality disorder but he's never sought a diagnosis).

I'm sensing that the relationship dynamics may be similar to your case, though, as it tends to be that the man with AS (or NPD) who presents the more serious issues with lack of social understanding, whereas the woman (even with AS like me) may be a little more willing to compromise to maintain harmony. Just my observation. I think that's why there are books and websites out there warning about taking AS husbands, and why so many of us women slip through the diagnostic net.

I definitely get where you are coming from. I have my own issues too, I have extremely high anxiety and mild depression. I also have a hard time voicing what I need. My hang ups combined with his make for a very difficult time when our needs conflict. I want to find a way that we can both feel good about how our conflicting needs are met before I start resenting him for always giving in to his more stubborn personality. I know he is an a** often, but he is also my favorite person to spend time with and being without him would break my heart. I’ve joked with him that we need a relationship contract much like the characters in The Big Bang Theory (which I know is an exaggerated stereotype but I love that show because it gives me hope) the only reason I haven’t actually tried it is negotiating with him is a daunting task.

I really do appreciate everyone giving me feedback, it helps me to feel like everything is manageable.

I don't know if this is my AS speaking and I'm channelling Sheldon, but I think the relationship contract would be a good idea.
By setting out the minimum standards you expect and presenting that to him, you can see whether he is willing to come to the table or whether he is completely dismissive of your needs.
Being strong in what you ask for now (as long as it is reasonable) will save you trouble down the track, I think.
But you've got to be willing to walk away if he won't bend.