Nice guys who are tough vs Bad Boys

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So...

Here's my predicament. Fundamentally, I'm a pretty swell guy. I don't have any problems sticking up for myself, and do a great job of keeping all my ducks in a row. I'm healthy, fit, don't smoke, rarely drink (and never get drunk), I can write poetry, I'm studying toward a masters in science, I've got well-defined muscles, and most people say I'm quite decent looking.

...yet somehow, it seems that the men who have the least respect for women get all of them! I'm confounded. It seems like the minute you show the slightest ounce of respect toward a woman, she goes off looking for some dickhead to obtain validation from instead. I've considered that they do so because given a choice between a wussy nice guy and a strong dickhead, women opted for strong>nice...yet, strong+nice seems to lose to strong+dickish.

What's worse, is that whenever I go chasing (or letting myself get chased by) men instead, I don't get this problem at all. I'm some kind of hot commodity in the gay community.

Advice please! What's a man gotta do? Get really lucky and find one of the rare good ones?

Its all about 'closing' as they say in sales. The psychic intent for sex must be strong, in aspies it is weak

The times I have become a babe magnet was when a switch flicked inside of me... the look of a hungry predator, the forward aggressive closing gestures...

Do you hit them up strong? Its almost unknowable.... until you know

I remember back in high school that the genuine tough-guys were also pretty nice people for the most part. Meaning ones that would get in actual fights occasionally and kick ass.

The jerks were the ones who would pretend to be tough by only messing with passive people, and you'd never see or hear of them getting in an actual full-blown fight with somebody.

None of this is my problem. I can catch the odd birdie with semi-regular success nowadays, but it never lasts long because I only deign to sleep with women I admire, and that seems to be the problem!

Most of the girls I encounter seem to THRIVE on continually struggling to obtain the respect and approval of men, and the second they get it, it's like interest completely falls off.

Last edited by Shau on 18 Sep 2012, 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think there may be an error of logic there. A woman who likes/loves you will admire your admiration

The 'they only go for as*holes' mantra, I dont see at all in my observations

There is something else

I'm not going to fight this with any kind of passion cause I'd be perfectly ok with being wrong here, but all of my observations are giving me a different picture.

Let me give you the usual scenario: You'll get a girl, showing signs of interest (laughing, smiling, playing with hair, etc), and I'll play my "Hmm, I wonder if you're interesting, ok I'll get to know you" routine. Then, once I've decided I liked her, I'll start showing genuine interest, and BLAM! Flawlessly every time, they go cold on me.

So, the newest scenarios: Once I've decided I liked her, I'll barely hint to it at best, and show only modest interest in her at all. And now, she's chasing me around for a week.

What the hell, man?

Theres a concept that can be applicable to just about any kind of situation like dating(an interview/a exam/whatever).
The minute something goes wrong the person thats doing the active part looks for a reason to blame the other part:

-The interviewer didnt want to hire me because I was more qualified than him and he was afraid of me taking his position(you dont know the interviewer´s qualification but you get to hear this all the time from people that go to interviews.)

-He didnt want to go out with me because he is a prick and he thinks he can do better than me(nevermind that a girl doesnt know why she may be rejected you get to hear this all the time)

Or in this scenario:
-She didnt want to date me because girls are only attracted to pricks and Im too good for her.


I can tell you that there are plenty of guys out there that are successful with women. That said I dont see any of them blaming a female when things dont work the way they wish they had gone

That's not quite it, bro. I'm not trying to toss around sentiments of being "too good" for them.



I'm not "blaming" people, I'm lamenting the fact that I seem to suck with holding the interests of women, but can do it just fine with men. It seems that in order to nab a girlie, you have to play all kinds of funny games that are just so incomprehensible to me. There's nothing inherently wrong about the funny mating games, but it sure does frustrate the hell out of me!

Is it like a....goal orientated thing? You know how in video games, once you reach the max level, and beat the game, and unlock everything...your interest in the game kinda disappears?

I understand your concern because Im in the same place.
However I have to see plenty of nice guys with their partners on daily basis(one of the "perks" of being on a computer related field) so I still stand by my point that not being a jerk doesnt mean females will hate you.

Theres this concept Ive seen around the board several times(I think its MXH who says it but I could be wrong): If a woman likes the way you look then your chances of screwing things up are extremely low. You could be jerk, a nice guy, someone thats indifferent to this argument, she´ll still like you.

There are plenty of ways of keeping a woman interested that dont involve being a douchebag, if you think that you need to work on this department do some research on this field(plenty of information online...)

I'll try to describe it in more detail.

I'll do the friendly bonding thing, talking about interests, science, culture, literature, etc with a girl, but whenever I go this route I land squarely into the friend zone.

I'll do less of the talking about interests, and more of the casual banter with a girl, and whenever I do this she's interested! But then, I start hinting that I think she's awesome/intelligent/interesting and that I'm interested, and start trying to have intelligent conversations, and blam, cold.

If I just kinda string them along, showing half-interest, not really caring one way or another, then suddenly they're chasing ME instead of the other way around, and they don't lose interest.

^^ This is how the ball has pretty much rolled for me. I dunno if it's my area or the social crowds I tend to fall into (This includes a lot of university social groups), but it seems to be the name of the game out here! And I can't really do it...it's a charade I have to keep up, and it's impossible to do forever.

Yep, and also that the concept can be applied in reverse. If she doesnt like you theres very little if nothing you can do to change that.

I must be one colossal screw-up

Sounds like a timing problem.

You're trying to switch from what you are doing that attracts them, when they require more of that before they can begin to be truly interested in you as a person, so they can progress to that stage of having those more serious conversations, at least at that time. The switch probably seems very sudden to them, and perhaps they feel you're going from "fun" to "serious" conversations / banter too quickly and it's putting them off, the attraction is lost and they are no longer interested?

Last edited by Kjas on 18 Sep 2012, 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

that actually seems very possible. cosidering op isnt having troubles attracting but rather keeping them around.

The bantering crap is BORING, though. It takes a bit of luck for me to not tank during that phase. And the conversations, while somewhat in-depth, are not SUPER serious, they can be quite light-hearted in tone too, just it's none of the "small talk". None of the every-day chit chat. I suck at it, and I also think it's boring.

But there's more to it than that: Whenever I'm watching my ladykiller friends at work, they're always at least a slight bit dickish. I don't necessarily mean raging douchebag here, but definitely that dickish edge, and never really giving them a ton of acknowledgement in their good qualities, and I swear that it works like wizardry! Works when I do it. I wanna clarify, that I don't readily hand out compliments so I'm pretty sure that's not the problem here, if anything I'm known for being quite brutally honest about what I think of people and their qualities (maybe I'm tanking here too...).

And somehow, it seems far less complicated with men. Lots of gay guys absolutely love it when I walk up to them and go "Hey...you know, I was never really one for small talk, and well...you seem intriguing. Wanna talk about something interesting?" And when they warrant it, I compliment them and make clear my growing respect toward them, and they pretty much always go for it.

I suspect that too many compliments too soon or on the wrong things may have some of the blame. I can't remember where I read it but it was an article about what women are most complimented on by men that are hitting on them. It went something like "Smile", "Hair", "Eyes" and were in general superficial compliments.

The other aspect is complimenting someone when they haven't "proven" themselves in that area to a point where they feel comfortable with you complimenting them on it. This goes more towards intellectual qualities, for instance going "Wow, you are really interesting" after 5 minutes of conversation where very little that the person getting the compliment has done in their mind qualifies as interesting.

These kinds of compliments often come off as "sucking up" rather than being genuine, which means that they interpret them as you trying to get them to like you.