Is this a date I am going to, or not?

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Heya folks!

Just a quick question: After meeting up with my best ladyfriend from high school (who, according to my mother, once admitted to her that she always had a crush on me, but this was like... 7 years ago)) last sunday, when I brought her to the tubestation, when the train rolled in, I thought what the heck and asked if she wanted to go out with me. We've spend a great day together before, cooking and eating together (and a little bit of mutual feeding, which she initiated), and overall, it feld really great being with her. I am not going into overanalyzing again, but I really don't know where I'm standing. She asked if by going out I meant a date, which I affirmed. Her first reply was "Nooooooooo!", which didn't really sound like a usualy "No, don't bother trying!", as she seemed to be a little embaressed and she was looking to the ground for a moment. When I asked her "Why not?" (not in a whiney, begging way, just casual as in: Why not, it would be fun!), as she was boarding the train, she said "Let's talk about this again!". She did seem really surprised and flat-footed. I just said "Well, just think about it, we'll stay in touch. Bye!", turned around and left. I saw from the corner of my eye when the train passed that she was smiling and waving at me (and it was one of those one-handed finger-waving thing, not the whole-hand shaking one).

After that, I've asked her if she wanted to do something with me next week. The sunday we've met, we talked about going to see the waxworks here in Berlin, and so I suggested doing that (we were sending messages via FB). I expected her to either say no, or to drop something along the lines of "Sure, but be reminded that it is not a date". She did neither, she just said "Yes, I'd like to do that". So, we settled for going there this Tuesday.

Is this a date? I mean, she knows what my "intentions" are (the quotation marks, because my primary intention was to settle this affair, to know where I am standing and to not grief myself years from now that I didn't try anything with her), and she went from "No!" to, as far as I'm concerned, "Maybe" within seconds. What's your oppinion on this? Is she just scared she might hurt my feelings if she said no (which she really wouldn't, and she should know that), or did I just surprise her with my approach and now she doesn't know what to say?

Duuude... touchy situation. Most posts on here are dead obvious, but this is like one of those;
"Oh, my gawsh... what do you think? I think flsfjasldkfjldskjf. Oh really? Maybe lksjdflkjflkajflj!! !"

Ummm... whenever something this confusing happens to me, which I would not suggest as a plan A, is I just blatantly ask them everything so I don't have to interpret anything at all.

Ok... let's evaluate this further...

From an average standpoint, It seems like either;

She friendzoned you, and wanted you as a friend forever and ever, and so intended to avoid dating you so you could be her friend forever and ever... hahahaha.

Orrr... she already has a boyfriend of something of the sort, and is at conflict from your own approach that she very well did want to go out with you but couldn't because she was already interested in someone else and committed to them.

Or I'm just flat out wrong, it's neither of those two, and I have no idea what I'm talking about. I think it would be wise to wait for some NT females opinions before making any conclusions...

Just to be safe, when the day comes and you do not yet have a clear idea of what she's thinking, treat the day as if it could be absolutely anything. Either a date or a hangout. Do try to clarify why she said no the other day though, but treat it as if it could be anything. If she's open at all to the idea of it being a date (Only talk about this if you absolutely have to.) then make it a date. If she's reluctant, then make sure your just hanging out as usual. If you need to just ask her. That's what I do most the time!

GOOD LUCK MY FRIEND!! ! Remember none of this is professional advice. But it may very well help you out! I highly suggest most of them! Of course, based on what I told you, you could probably work it out fairly well on your own, considering how long you've known her. But let's see what the girls have to say... if any reply, and if they reply before your... event.

Thanks for your input! As for the boyfriend thing, it was one of the things she dropped when we were meeting, that she now has completely broken up with her recent on/off boyfriend, and that she just finds him disgusting. She used to be a really wild girl, and her boyfriend were never really stable persons, but she was very eager to let me know that she now plans on "settling down", that she wants to go to college now, move out away from her "alternative" neighbourhood because she's sick of all those hipsters and fakes, and also that she kinda hears "her clock ticking" when it comes to... well family / having a baby. This is what makes me suspicious. I mean, sure, we are friends and all that, and I've never really seen her as a possible partner until recently. Not saying that I'm already heads over heels for her or anything, but hey, I'm just a guy and I also need to slowly start thinking about things like family and all that myself. And at least she knows me, we get along with each other and that is already a good basis to go from... it would cut out the whole "getting to know each other" phase, and that would be cool.

Your situation sounds like a great place to start a relationship. Keep doing activities you are both comfortable with and initiate some contact, i.e. if she is walking close to you try holding her hand. Laugh off any awkwardness that occurs, there well be some as you establish a deeper emotional connection.

Good luck!

Thank you for your words, I will give it a thought. As for the initiate physical contact thing, this is, I am afraid, impossible to me. I cannot touch other humans without they express consent. This holds true especially with women, as I don't have any concept of what is appropriate with whom and what not. That is partially because I am easily startled myself with unanounced physical contact, and partially because I am incredibly uncomfortable with the idea that I might touch someone in a way they find incredibly uncomfortable, and if there's something I want to avoid at any cost, is that people feel bothered by me or uncomfortable because of me. I don't see any way around that, and I do think that this is one of the reasons why women might think I am not interested in them, because I have read alot that many women expect men to do some casual touching in order for them to know that he is into them. At one point when I brought her to the station on sunday, for a moment I actually thought she was expecting me to kiss her, because the train was approaching, and she said "Oh, there's something on your lips." Maybe there was just something on my lips, but the randomness of the statement and the almost clichee moment just before saying goodbyes made me think that she hinted about that... of course, only after she'd left, but I wouldn't have done it, anyways.

Thing is, I think no matter what I do, I think I'll make the wrong decision. It is, after all, a binary choice: Either it is a casual hanging out thing, or it is a date. And I know me: If I go in thinking it's a date, she most likely thinks it's not and I'll damage our friendship by coming on too strong. If I go in thinking it's just two friends doing stuff, she'll probably think I've changed my mind and don't want her anymore. Well, I'll see how it goes, and I think I'll have to play it safe by thinking of it as not a date... better be a little disappointed than coming over as a jerk who just wants to get into her pants.

Dude, this is kinda exciting. I'm the exact same way when it comes to girls and contact probs and stuff. You gotta tell us how this plays out man.
Regarding the making the wrong decision either way... just do this:
Go in as both. Like I said earlier. Try to make it neutral, and interpret it then and decide whether or not it is a date or not.
OH AND there's a chance she doesn't know either. So this might be an opportunity or something.
Or she automatically assumed it was one of the two like you said...

AND HAVE CONFIDENCE IN YOUR DECISION MAKING. When you have dis-confidence you actually train yourself to make wrong decisions. When you have confidence, you do the opposite. Even if you still have no idea, your brain will eventually drop an answer on you. Just tell yourself over and over that you make correct decisions, and that your not afraid to make a mistake. Say it out loud. That helps a lot.
But still be careful. THAT PARAGRAPH ^^^ Is the only professional advice I can give you that I know helps.

But still be like "I got this!!"

And I agree to laugh off awkward moments. Unless you tick her off, then apologize, but you know, not a deep, begging apology, asking for forgiveness. Unless she's ACTUALLY that mad, but that's unlikely. But you know that. Hahaha.

Ok, good I think you've got a good amount of info for this... maybe, maybe not. I still think you should and could pull this off fairly well.

Okay, I don't wanna make this as big an affair I used to here at another point (but brace yourselves: still a wall of text inbound ^^), but the "date/not a date" thing was today, and it was... weird. It was fun, but weird. First, she called me about 15 minutes after our scheduled time and said she overslept, alas, she came an hour later. She seemed genuinely worked up and sorry about it on the phone, which was indeed unusual because... well, she used to either just call you and say "I'll be an hour late", or just come an hour or two late without saying anything. Anyhow, she wanted me to pick her up from the nearest train station so I didn't have to wait even longer. When we met, she told me she was out partying yesterday and it went longer than she thought... and that she was still a little drunk, which I could tell right away by her boozy breath (which, actually, is an instant killer of any kind of arousal, just to mention hat). We had a nice time at the waxworks, and she even went out of her ways to bring a camera to make photos (I told her before I didn't have one, and she replied she didn't have one, either, but she borrowed one... I found that to be a very nice gesture). We didn't take pictures together, obviously, and there wasn't much going on in the feely/touchy department, but she was very eager to have me pose for photos with the wax figures, while she herself didn't want to get that many taken. We got some pictures taken by one the employees with some costumes on, and at the end, she bought it at a booth for me, which I found surprising considering she wasn't too keen of having her pic taken.
All in all, it was pretty cool (apart from her being late and still a little drunk) and I enjoyed myself, but in the end, I still don't know if it was a real date.

What supports the "date" theory, when we were riding the train back to a station were we parted, she asked "So, what are we going to do next?" To which I replied that I'd like her to pick something since the waxworks was my idea. She didn't come up with anything specific, so we agreed we'd write each other a message to see what it's going to be. Also, she was very short to the people texting her on her phone, going so far as ignoring them while I was still with her (something she already did at our first casual meeting, which I found truly kind and polite). Before our goodbyes, she also said that she enjoyed it, but it was a bit short.

On the other hand, I know she is a rather touch-happy person (judging from her FB pics, she still is), and she didn't engage in that too much (only on two where it more or less seemed accidental where hour heads and side parts of the bodies touched for some time while looking at something), and she didn't look at me that much on the train ride afterwards, either, even though we got a good talk going on. Talking about looking, just before we said goodbye before I got on my bus, she seemed to be uncomfortable with the fact that I was looking at her for a prolonged time, saying something along the lines like "Why are you looking at me like that? There's so many other things to look at here!" To which I just replied "Alright, then I won't look at you."

All in all, it is still an absolule tie from where I am standing. There were some few weird things she did that were really mysterious, but other than those, I think I sorted her behaviour into those two categories quite well. The two things that where weird were, when she told me she was meeting for lunch with a friend of hers that stayed at her place for a while an hour later, I just said "Well, I hope you make it in time then!", to which she replied: "Well, why shouldn't I? Do you plan on abducting me?" The other really weird thing was when we were about to leave the waxworks, the exit leads to a souvenir shop where she was looking around, holding some strange doll/toy, whatever in her hands, and said with a little hushed voice (allthough by far not in a way you would call whisper, and I was very close to her, so there's now way she could have thought I couldn't hear that) in a very serious tone: "I love you!" while looking at that thing... I have no idea what this is about.

Yeah, it's another wall of text, and while I indeed have no intention to analyze any and all of my steps and plan on what doing next, I seriously consider just writing her that I made my intentions clear on our first meeting, and that I'd like her to make a clear statement now if this was a date or not, if she considers us "dating" at all, wants to do that or wants to stay "just" friends. I will definitely make it clear that I am fine with either, but I don't want to play games and I want to know how we're going to proceed from this point on. Do you think that is a good idea, or did I get it all wrong and she really didn't think it was a date?

while it was a wall of text i actually found the information very useful for trying to figure out how things went

my advise next is to get into more thoughtful conversations. talk about the past, you have a history together and knowing more about each other builds trust. she might remember that she likes you.

understanding her perspective is still really tough. she could be taking things slow since she the prior relationship seemed to end painfully to her. she might like you and just want to take it slow. or she might just be this way and dosnt go looking for relationships, just falls into them.

i would try to keep away from forcing her into a date, but still do the flirting stuff that lets her know you like her. i would advise saying directly that you like her, it might push too much of a begging attitude. what defines a date anyway is simply the emotion that the people are putting into it. getting dinner as friends might turn into getting desert as a date. and provide opportunities for her to keep you out later than intended. you can say you have plans at 6 and so when 5 rolls around see how easily she gives you up. the more she begs you to stay with her, the better things are.

Thank you for your insight on this one! Just to make this clear: I don't want to force her into a date, I just want her do take a definite position in where we are standing. This... whatever it was was so ambigious that I have the impression that she doesn't really know what she wants, either. And this I will make perfectly clear: I will not settle for a maybe, or an if and for a when, I do not roll that way. I am more or less certain about my goals in life, about what I want to accomplish and with whom, and I don't want to play games. I know she is indeed the type that just "happens to end up with a guy she finds hot", but according to what she told me on our first meeting, she indeed wants to settle down a little bit. Thing is, she wants A and still does B, which supports my theory that she doesn't really know what she wants. She doesn't want to give up her "freedom", but wants to go to college now, or learn a trade or something like that, but these two concepts cannot coexsist, you have to decide what you want. If she wants friendship, fine with me, I am not emotionally invested into her that I couldn't live with the fact that I "couldn't have her". She seems very eager to keep me close, but doesn't want to let me come too close, at least that's how it seems, and I wouldn't want to be with someone like that, anyhow.
Besides needing a definitive concept of how to approach meeting her next time due to my AS, I also want her to finally break out of her negative cycle she's build. She seemed to be sad when she learned that the other girl from out old high school gang got pregnant this year. Alas, she seems to know that the kind of guy she usually fancies isn't exactly husband/father material, and that a relationship that is defined by "ifs" and "whens" is nothing to build a family upon. Not saying I would be "a better choice", but the parade of boyfriends she had over the years I've known her, there wasn't a single one that would anyone would consider a suitable mate for settling down and having kids. And inside, she knows that, which always made it hard to be her friend.
In the end, she's got to set her mind to something: Either keep on partying with "cool" people that are fake as s**t, or settle down with someone stable and abandon her "hip" way of life (whether that would be me, or someone else, I don't care). Meeting her after such a prolonged time reminded be why I was glad we lost track of each other a little bit. Seeing someone you care for making - knowingly, as it would seem - bad decision after bad decision, never being truly happy, and yet they don't let you or anyone else close enough to them that you could make a difference, is tough, even for someone with AS. And I don't know if I can go through that again, because I have moved on since high school, and I thought she had made the decision that she should, too.

careful when applying pressure in anything. if something has only a yes/no result, anyone aspie or not would easily give up all progress and regress back to where they were before. they give themselves the "deal with it later" aproach.

its good you see both her sides, it looks like shes just a typical young adult who didnt know how to give up the fun young life to start the mature adult life. ive seen MANY of my past friend who now have minium wage jobs and party with every penny they have. the only way they break the cycle is if someone gets pregnant.

so i would avoid all labeling and just get some decent emotional and deep conversations out of her. let the trust build and take it wherever it leads. even if you dont play games like this, the cost to you is mostly time, and in the end you will get a good friend or a girlfriend. both are good things though. help her think about her future and how easily she can go from where she is to who she wants to be.

i cannot guess how things will end, it too far into that grey area, but hopefully your good FOR her and she sees that.

The best approach may be the simplest approach. Don't think about it and just have fun.

Yes, thanks, I will probably stick with that. I mean, I've made my intentions and my interest clear, she was the one asking what we were going to do next, so I guess the ball is in her court now. I did the usually expected "man does the first move" thing, she didn't back out, but I think it is not inappropriate for me to expect her to accomodate me, meeting me somewhere half the way? Again, I learned much from the past experience discusses elsewhere, and I am really surprised by myself that I am quite capable of not getting emotionally attached too quickly (other than that, against my usual personality, I am quite in the mood for some physical intimacy lately, but that is more a physical urge than an emotional thing).
If she doesn't write me as she said she would to do our next thing together, then screw it, even though I don't usually have the best image of myself, I think I deserve better than this.