The fine line between friends and more-than-friends

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Ok, so this is a bit of a long story, not sure where to begin... well... first off I want to apologize for being off the grid for so long. Sometimes I just get depressed and don't feel like dealing with you all, even though you guys are all right, TBH it takes a lot of patience to converse with other Aspies for me and some days I have it, other days it's at a premium.


Secondly... well, about this time last year, I began dating a girl from my university anime club. I'll call her Kyuuchan since that is my nickname for her, it's short for "Kyuketsu-hime" which I recently discovered is Japanese for "vampire princess." Ironically enough, she isn't a hardcore Twilight fan, although she likes vampires in general and all of her World of Darkness (a gothic horror tabletop rpg that we both play). characters have been vampires thus far.

Anyways, the main plotline of this is, we broke up about mid-September last year. However, it isn't so much the breakup that bothers me, but rather her reasoning behind it, and where the two of us go from here.

From the sound of it, she wanted to break up with me some time prior to when she finally did, but was holding off because she didn't want me to be completely crushed. However, at some point she decided that ending it then would be better in the long run for the both of us than dragging it on.

So she basically sat me down one evening at the study room in her dorm building, we had been holding a character-building session for the World of Darkness campaign she was planning for the rest of the semester. She told me she couldn't handle it anymore, and that she was breaking up with me. However, she said that she still wanted to be my friend, that she felt that I was a good person, one that she could trust, and that she didn't want to lose my friendship over this if it could be help.

The way she worded it, it was obvious that she still cared about me, and that she still wanted me as a part of her life, but that right now a relationship was out of the question. For that reason, I was able to accept her decision with a decent amount of grace and decorum. Given, I was still heartbroken, but the fact that she didn't throw me away completely like my last ex meant that we still had a bond of some sort that she cared about.

In the two months since then, our friendship has been slightly awkward, but I've been able to learn from both her and some of her friends what her reasons were. Firstly, she thought I had a tendency to be immature and dependent at times. In retrospect she did a point, I tended to fly off the handle easily at other people when she was around, and I was relying on her as a person to vent various frustrations to. Secondly, I was demanding a lot of her time, time she needed both for work, school, and her social life with her other friends. Thirdly, which she revealed to me about a month ago, she wasn't sure if she felt the same way about me that I did about her, though she said more than likely that was due to lack of experience since I was her first boyfriend ever. Finally, she said that she wanted me to be able to find happiness without relying on her, and that there was no way a relationship between us could work out unless I could be a bit more confident in myself and independent.

Most of this I've learned from her directly. Basically, it seems to me like she may or may not still want a relationship with me, but that either way, before she can date me I have some growing up to do. And in a sense, she's right. Though socially I'm ahead of the curve for Aspies, I'm still far from a normal member of society. She told me that she feels like I have the potential to be a much better person than I am now, and that she wants me to realize that potential.

Based on what she's said to me ever since then, it's clear to me that she cares about me a lot and wants me to be successful in life, which is pretty much how she feels about all of her friends. And while I was skeptical at first if she really wanted to be my friend afterwards, I came to realize that there was no reason for her to lie about that. She wants to be my friend, she said that, and she has never given me a reason to doubt that. I trust that she is being honest with me.

So for now, I'm single, but I am still very much in love with her. This has manifested itself as a problem recently, however, as for a few weeks it felt like she was trying to avoid me. When I asked her about it, she told me certain aspects of my behavior were coming across as clingy and stalker-ish, and she was trying to get me to realize that without straight up telling me. She knows I'm an Aspie, but she believes that if I pay attention more to these things, that I can learn to recognize social cues. I don't know if she fully understands exactly how that works, but at the very least she was able to tell me what it was exactly I was doing that made her feel uncomfortable, and I made a note of it so that I could catch myself next time.

However, barring that, she's still been a good friend to me, we still talk a lot and we see each other at anime club as well as at her World of Darkness campaign, in which she is the Game Master and I am one of the party characters, a mage named Shiki Shigami. Even though a majority of our actions during that time take place in character (which is made even more awkward by the fact that my character Shiki is a girl, and her NPC avatar James is a guy), it seems like she enjoys having me participate in the game.

As for me, well, I still want a relationship with her, but for the time being I've decided to give up on the prospect. I mean, right now she's made it clear she's not ready for me to be her boyfriend and I intend to respect that. I have told her that, while I won't actually be looking for others, if a romantic opportunity presents itself in the form of another girl, I won't turn her down because of my feelings for Kyuu-chan. In the meantime, however, I feel like it's easier for me to think of her as my friend and not my ex-gf. I actually told our club president when he asked me about this, that I'm essentially pretending I traveled back in time one year ago today, before I asked her out, and that while I still have memories of our relationship, it occurred on a separate alternate timeline, and that when I traveled back the current timeline diverted to one where she and I have not yet become anything more than friends. He thought it was a good idea, although he laughed at me for explaining it in that manner and told me to stop watching Stein's;Gate so late at night.

So, basically, anyone else been in a situation like this? I could use some expert advice if anyone has any to offer. For now, however, I'm gonna lace up my roller blades and head down to the polls. My vote won't cast itself, y'know?

Kindd of....but not exactly.

I kind of felt like I forced a relationship on one of my friends...but we never saw each other so I broke up with her.

But now I think she has feelings for me, but I don't feel the same anymore....we're still friends, but my family keeps pressuring me to ask her out again despite how I feel (I don't like her in that way anymore...or probably used nostalgia to cloud it....I also can't relate to her that well...).

You seem to have a better grasp then I do...minus the slight stalker side (which doesn't sound that bad....just that you feel you need to feel close to her).

I suggest only seeing her now and again really and focus on your social life outside of the Anime community you have going...you could meet many new friends to talk to and possibly a few female friends you can relate to...that'd certainly help yourself be detatched from your ex.

She'll also be happy that you're growing in this way too.

Thanks. To be fair, I've kind of given up on any serious relationships for the time being, the fact is that right now, my heart is still set on Kyuuchan, but I know she doesn't want us to be together, at least not at this time. So I'm just going to stay single until either A) she changes her mind and wants a relationship with me, or B) another girl comes along that I feel like I can have a meaningful relationship with.

Of course, by relationship, I'm talking about a full on monogamous union-of-mind-and-soul-and-occasionally-bodies relationship. The thing about Kyuuchan was, I was attracted to her sexually but that attraction came secondary. I fell in love with her because of her personality and intelligence, and afterwards just so happened to look at her and think "Daaaamn she's hot." This is actually a first for me, my first two relationships were mostly defined by sex, but as it so happens she was and remains a virgin. Not that we didn't talk about it at all, I figured she just needed time to figure out if she wanted me in that way or not. Turns out she didn't really feel the same about me, although she admits that her lack of experience may have been part of the problem. Not only is she a virgin, she'd never even been KISSED before I came along. I think part of her reasoning is that she can't in good conscience have a relationship with me because even if she loves me in the romantic sense, she'd probably have difficulties discerning these kind of feelings from the feelings of caring and trust that forms the bonds with her friends. I can kind of relate.

She told this to me, and was basically like, "I'm not sure how I feel about you, and right now my life is too hectic to try and think about it. I am your friend, I've always been your friend, but until I know for sure that I think of you as any more than that, I can't be in a relationship with you." She then went on to tell me that there was a chance that, if we remained friends and time went on, that she would be able to decide whether or not I'm the one she wants. Basically I asked her if our relationship was over for good, and she said "Our relationship can't be over and done if it never began in the first place." From what I interpreted, she basically meant that I didn't need to worry about her giving me a second chance because as far as she's concerned, I'm still on my first chance with her.

So what I'm trying to say is, right now I don't plan on finding anyone for a meaningful emotional relationship, because I feel like she and I still have a chance. Even so, if I end up falling in love with someone else, that may change. However, I'm debating on whether or not just to enjoy being single and fooling around with other girls, even if there's no emotional relationship involved. In other words, while I'm not looking for another girlfriend, I will sleep with someone else if it's just a friends-with-benefits kind of thing, at least until Kyuuchan makes her decision. I don't think it counts as cheating because I'm technically single anyways, and there's a lot more to my relationship with her than just sex.

I've already had one of my FB friends ask to cyber with me, given she dropped out of chat halfway through and I haven't heard from her since, but I didn't really mind it. She wasn't wanting me to be her steady, she was just looking for a guy to fool around with. As far as I'm concerned, until the issue of Kyuuchan and I resolves itself, I don't feel guilty about it. If she asks me out again, that's another story.

Once. And when I improved she came back briefly but once we were dating again my "dating personality" kicked back in and so it ended once more. I find that to cope with dating (or at least in the past) I have like a different mode setting, same with friends, work, family I have different settings for them but I've overcome this problem for the most part now.

Growing up is never easy because we sometimes grow up in some ways but not in others. It sounds to me like you have matured but maybe not in the areas she would like for the relationship to blossom. I guess that is the thing you've got to figure out for yourself. Did she ever tell you if specific things annoyed her or hint in any way?

She has, actually. She's a very practical person by nature, so if she has an issue with my behavior she'll tell me straight-up in detail. Given, there have been some instances where she hasn't said anything directly and I had to guess for myself, such as the situation I mentioned above. She was being distant and avoiding me, even when we were together with the rest of our friends she'd talk with them more and it seemed like whenever I tried to get her attention, she did so reluctantly. I finally got fed up and asked her what the issue was, and she told me that I had been "hovering" around her way too much and that it was making her uncomfortable. When I asked her why she didn't tell me, she told me that she felt I should be able to catch something that blatantly obvious, Aspie or not. I was kind of miffed at that, since she knows I'm an Aspie and that I have trouble catching these kinds of social cues. However, to her credit, once I asked her what it was about my behavior that she didn't like, she told me in detail. Basically she was waiting for me to take the initiative and realize that I was making her uncomfortable, after I guessed that she was willing to work with me on improving in that respect.

This is one of the things I love about this girl. She's a very kind person, and she's willing to work with me on some of the issues I have as an Aspie, but at the same time she's not going to coddle me because she believes in me, believes that I have the potential to do better than I am now when it comes to my social skills. Honestly, I've never had a friend like her, and I'd say it was something more than friendship as her motive if it weren't for the fact that she treats all of her friends this way. If only more people could be like her, this world may be a friendlier place.

I think she cares about you a great deal and is waiting for the day you can be comfortable both with her and you no matter what the situation is. Like say if she is nearby you aren't giving into the temptation of hovering or trying to draw her attention and instead find solace in talking to your friends or doing something else. Also when going to bars probably the same thing there. This was something that took me years to learn.

Another thing might be where she goes to a party that you don't go to, and trying to resist the temptation of checking up on her to feel more relaxed, but instead texting if it's unusually late and you haven't heard anything only to say you hope she's having a good time and to have a good night or something like that.

Anyways when you reach "that spot" in your friendship/relationship where you can be as casual and sensibly distanced no matter what happens you will know within yourself and she will probably pick up on it too.

Yeah, thanks. TBH there have been a few times where I've called to check on her before, but generally it's either A) making sure she made it back to the dorm ok, since we've had a fugitive at large for the past month that has attacked women walking alone, B)Making sure she's ok physically if she's sick o injured, as was the case Monday when the silly girl wiped out on her bicycle on the way back from class, or C) Calling her to check on someone else, we have this mutual friend who is very prone to severe illness and injury, and when she's gotten back from the hospital for one reason or another, if I can't get a hold of her I will call Kyuuchan since the two are very close and more often than not she is there at the ER with her. This doesn't count, I think, because at those times I'm more concerned about our friend's well-being than I am with hers.

She can take care of herself, I know this. She's been hurt before like in B) but it never seems to stop her, and as far as A) is concerned, that guy would be better off turning himself in than attacking her, at least he'll have a greater chance of surviving that way XD Kyuuchan is very strong, and she knows how to fight because she ended up going to an alternative school in the ghetto for a year after she got expelled from her usual school (from what I understand it was a misunderstanding), so she learned how to defend herself in hand-to-hand combat as well as some particularly vicious ways to incapacitate an attacker, male or female. She's one tough customer, but I think she appreciates me making sure she's ok even though I already know she is. It shows that I care, and TBH she doesn't have that many friends who would care about her like that.

What I read prior to this was very emotional...but then when you said this; " In other words, while I'm not looking for another girlfriend, I will sleep with someone else if it's just a friends-with-benefits kind of thing, at least until Kyuuchan makes her decision". That is a BIG no-no....although you aren't cheating on her...she will be devastated that you'd play around between her making a decision....

You just need to be patient if you don't plan on seeing anyone else..."fooling around" isn't the best idea of your impression to her....even if she doesn't know what you've done in the meatime...it's kind of betraying your one true love if you do feel the same about her (I believe if you found your soul mate, you shouldn't be really having sex if you still feel the same way about them when you technically broke up).

Gonna have to agree with Redux on this. If you want Kyuuchan back you're gonna have to consider this a break and not a break-up. Unfortunately though this kind of thing is messy. Usually it ends up being "okay" for one person to do the fooling around thing and not the other person depending on who is the better speaker in the argument.

I've been in a not quite the same, but similar, situation with a current friend and ex.

First, you said you broke around mid-September last year, but also said it's been two months, and I remember how earlier in this year you talked about how happy you were with her, so did you mean mid-September this year, or am I getting something wrong? Anyways, going on, I remember I entered a relationship with her, around six months long, before we broke up, becáuse we noticed that even though the emotional component and the caring about each other was there, the sexual component was not, so we were better suited to be friends than to be a couple. I still mourned the loss of it for a while, and had thoughts of going back even though I was the one who initiated the breakup, but it wouldn't have been proper. Now I'm more than over her .

Your situation seems like a tricky one. As a general rule, if you are friends with someone then you are friends with someone, so you can date whoever you feel like in whichever terms you prefer. What makes me unsure is... do you really think you still have a chance with her? Most people are deluded in this part and think they do while they actually don't, and that is also a possibility you should really take into account, although in your specific case it isn't quite so clear to me. She doesn't sound like the type who would enjoy having you around her to boost her ego either, so I must ditch that possibility too. Which things about yourself do you think you'd have to improve to be with her (which would also make your life better whether you actually end up with her or not, very important)

Sometimes a little detox is necessary.

You may be able to remain friends, but I do think you kind of have to spend some time away from her completely.

I think I do, although it is really up to her. When we were dating she would always talk about how sweet I was to her. Even though I'm not exactly a smooth talker, every now and then I'd say something she thought was totally romantic, and it made her happy.

What broke us apart wasn't anything I did wrong, but it was a combination of A) me being a bit too immature and dependent for her liking, and B) her not being able to cope with our relationship while working and going to college full-time. Of course, in regards to B I was not helping matters by demanding a lot of her time.

However, she admits herself that she feels like these are workable. She says that right now I'm doing things that she couldn't cope with in our relationship, but she believes I can change for the better, and I think she's watching to see if I do. If anything, I know she knew I truly loved her and still do, and I think she cares for me a lot, just not in the way I thought. I mean, she broke up with me but still wants to be my friend. If she didn't care I don't think she would have allowed us to remain friends afterwards.

Now, as far as the possibility of me being FWB with other girls, I don't know what she'd think of that. However, I plan to find out by straight up asking her sometime in the near future. One thing we've always appreciated about the other is honesty. I'll tell her that I still love her and that I still want a serious emotional relationship with her, but that until she decides I'll ask her if my being sex friends with other girls is going to upset her. If she says yes, then I won't do it. That simple. Even if she says that it's ok I don't even know if its going to happen or not. If anything, however, the fact that I would come to her and ask her that - essentially asking her permission to fool around with other girls until she finally decides whether or not she wants a serious emotional relationship with me - would show her that I honestly care. I mean, yeah if we're not in a relationship then that technically means I'm single, so if she's only my friend she can't complain about my sex life, but the fact is I value the possibility of a relationship with her more so than I do fooling around in the interim, and if it's something that she doesn't want then I won't do it.

Ok, so an update on this... Kyuuchan and I had a falling out Wednesday night. I was on break working at the residence hall cafeteria for the university, and ended up running into a mutual friend who said something about her dating someone else. A minute later, she walks in and I went up to her and asked her about it. Things got pretty nasty, so much so that by the time I clocked back in, I was so distraught that finally my supervisor told me to go home for the night because I wasn't paying attention to what was going on. It wasn't like a "go home you're fired" more like "go home early tonight because you're obviously upset and you need time to calm yourself so that you don't do something stupid that WILL get you fired." Good thing those guys are more understanding than the managers at my last job.

I left the building after clocking out and she was waiting there for me. She told me she wanted to talk and asked me to walk with her back to her dorm. On the way, we talked about what was going on between us. I asked her the reason why she had agreed to date me when I asked her out, and she told me that I was "a really sweet, romantic guy". She also told me that had it not been for my clingyness and my co-dependence on her, she wouldn't mind dating me still. She told me, and I quote "I'm fine being your girlfriend, I just don't want to be your keeper."

Anyways, I told her that I had been considering leaving her and ditching our WoD campaign, just because seeing her kept reminding me of our relationship, what could have been but wasn't. However, I told her that I didn't want to do that because I knew she cared about me, and I valued our friendship. I told her that I wanted to basically start over. I didn't want to forget our relationship completely, but that I wanted us to act as though it was an alternate timeline or some s**t. She cracked up laughing at the time travel element of my explanation, and it really helped lighten the mood.

It was getting a little cold so I decided to go home for the night, but not before telling her that I really thought she was amazing, and that I was glad she was my friend.

Today I talked with her over the phone, and told her a few things that I had forgotten to mention to her. I told her that I should have never considered tossing away our friendship like that, and apologized. She told me that it was alright to have thought about it, as long as the decision I came to was rational. I also told her that I really wanted to work on some of my issues, and that I was glad she was willing to believe that I could change and become a better person, so I told her "thank you for believing in me"

After that, we hung up, but a few minutes later I got a text that said "Lets meet an hour early before campaign on Saturday [referring to our World of Darkness game with our other friends] so we can discuss things.... thanks."

I don't know what she plans to discuss, but I'm hopeful that she and I can work things out.

Sounds great just remember not to initiate any contact until you see her on that Saturday. If she messages you again sure message back.

Your case is definitely nothing like I've ever seen, experienced, or heard about before. Which makes me think there is something special between you two, but severely limits the advice I can give lol. She's right, you know, relationships are best when the two people can learn from each other, instead of one taking care of the other, and if clingyness is a problem with you, then it's a problem worth solving not only for her sake, but for yours as well.

You leave me at a loss my usual advice is to forget any possibility of a romantic relationship developing and moving on but... you're special

Well, that's probably because we're both pretty unique. She's one of the most interesting girls I've met because she basically raised herself, I mean she lived with her mother but she didn't do much in the way of raising her. It's not that her mother didn't want her, but not only is she the youngest of about seven kids, but there was enough of a time gap between her and her next-eldest sibling that they had all moved away, which means she essentially grew up an only child in a single parent household, and her mother was pretty jaded with raising children at that point. So she learned to do things like cook for herself and care for herself when she was sick from a very early age. As a result, she's more mature and composed than people twice her age. At the same time, however, she's got that childish sense of innocence and wonder that manifests itself at times. I remember walking with her back from anime club after a blizzard, and almost mid-sentence she stopped to jump onto a pile of snow that had been pushed onto the sidewalk by the snowplow, and make a snow angel in it. This summer she was at my house, we were doing a dinner/movie date at my house since my parents were away on a trip, and I had to go run to the store to grab some stuff for dinner, as I walk out the door it starts pouring down rain. Next thing I know she walks outside into the rain and just stood there with her arms out, letting the rain fall on her. She turns 20 next year, and she's wiser than a 40-year old but can still have fun like a 10-year old. It's weird and confusingly paradoxial, but it's one of the things I love about her.

As for me... well I don't mean to brag, but as far as Aspies go I've come a long way in managing my life at least somewhat normally. I was dx'ed at the age of 5, and spent my entire school life undergoing social skills therapy. Even then, it wouldn't have worked had I not been an extrovert to begin with. Just because I'm autistic doesn't mean I'm anti-social, in fact I enjoy the company of others so long as they aren't mean. Most of my friends I have met since moving to Laramie have been through the college anime club, including both Kyuuchan and my other ex (She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named). Many of these are people I consider to be amici veritas lit. "true friends", and they are people I trust with my life and vice-versa. I guess it's true the saying "Nerds of a feather flock together"