NT female needs advice about aspie relationship

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I am a NT female who finds herself caring deeply about a close friend with what I believe is an Asperger’s syndrome. My friend is generally well liked but also known for his unusual quirks. When I started working with him on a job-related project, I realized that he is also an exceptional human being—fiercely smart, kind, thoughtful, and found myself really attracked to him. He asked me out in a sort of awkward-adorable way and we went out for coffee a number of times. Ultimately, I don’t know what to do next! He is very reserved and private. He also has a tendency to end our meetings abruptly and simply runs away. Until I realized that he may have Asperger’s (he admitted to having a "learning disability" at one point), I was taken aback by some of his more insensitive comments, his random violations of my private space, and his frankness that sometimes borders on cruelty, not to mention his wardrobe, and various obsessions. I read my way through this forum which helped a lot. However, I want to make him a part of my life, and I still don’t know how to proceed on certain issues. Should I tell him that I know about Asperger’s and his related issues and that it’s ok—actually, all those things make him unique, and that I respect his needs and am willing to accommodate them. I also believe that I caused a sensory overload at one time. It was an incredibly disturbing experience for both of us and I think that he was really embarrassed by it. I care so much for this guy and I don’t want to hurt him. Unfortunately, I feel that our relationship resembles walking on crushed glass--it hurts both of us.
Any advice will be highly appreciated.

if you can tell him you understand,he will come forward and feel comfortable. i see that your interested in him. but in order for it to work you have to let him know that your a very understanding individual and you understand what he is going through. take your time with him. he may be just thinking your out to get him. don't do that. just let him be himself and everything will be fine.

He may not be diagnosed/aware, so I would approach the subject carefully.

In my case, and not sure how many other cases, It takes a bit of time to start feeling comfortable around a new person. Especially someone you are dating and maybe even falling for. I would say be patient in that regard. Also, if he is not too sensitive to constructive criticism, maybe you can speak up and tell him when you think he is being insensitive and ask him to stop. Remind him though of the good things that he does for you and encourage that.

Thank you for your comments!
Do people with Asperger’s often feel like other people are out to get them? As an NT, I don’t have this kind of thoughts. Reading posts in this forum made me realize that perhaps differences in perception constitute the biggest obstacle to aspie-NT relationships. That’s why I would like to understand HIS perspective, which I know is inaccessible to someone like me. I read so many posts here written by people who speak about a desire for a relationship but also about the need for mutual respect between partners, and I would like to know more about how to build this kind of respectful and loving relationship with someone who exists in a different mental frame. I don’t want my actions to be misunderstood by him. What distresses me the most is that I realize how easily he could misconstrue my behavior as something malicious. I just don’t know what to watch out for.

As for being undiagnosed –I think that he has a formal diagnosis since I know that he received some form of counseling at one point. I already suggested a few things about the way he conveys his comments and I think that it worked. I hope this is a positive sign.

If he is changing things about himself because he wants to be with you and keep you around, it should be a good sign. He is listening and showing you respect the best way he can. My lady friend told me that I needed to work on my tone of voice and being more direct and clear with her as well. Being clear and direct works both ways.
The best way to find out what to watch for... just ask us at any point and we can do what we can to help out.

it does happen when people are out to get them like that. it's how we look at people sometimes. no offense.

yeah maybe he is getting use to you and figuring you out like a report.

Being an Aspie, he may have been bullied, ostracized, or made to feel inadequate by other people. I know I was, mostly during middle school and early high school. It's left me with a bitter taste in my mouth regarding people, and it made me extremely apprehensive around them. I'm a senior in high school now, the bullying is completely over, I have friends who accept me, but I still can't shake that feeling. I can't speak for all Aspies, but personally my mind seems to function much like a dog's in that operant and classical conditioning are what primarily shape my actions and attitudes.

Also, what aspiemike said. It takes me a very long time to get comfortable around people.

i was bullied as well during middle and high school. it sucked for me and i didn't make much friends i was Bounded by people with no sense of direction. it's shameful that some of us go through that stuff for no reason.

I was always bullied in school too. I never thought too much about it then, I assumed I had something wrong with me because they were able to do that, so never questioned it. I was also very little and wouldn't have had the physical capacity to beat them off. Not that I would have, I was so pacific. Nowadays, it would be a different story.

Thank you for advice everyone. Aspiemike--great info, thank you.
I don’t think that the bullying issue is particularly useful here since NT children, myself included, become victims of playground bullies as well and I simply have no evidence that my friend was ever bullied in school. Besides, it has been a few decades since he and I were in school.
I am more concerned with what may happen if I mention Asperger’s. My friend has not disclosed it yet and I don’t know how he will react to the fact that I took liberty to research the symptoms I observed and to read so much about it. I am afraid that he wants to be perceived as “normal” and will simply not tolerate my invasion of his private life. At the same time, my awareness of his condition is already helping the relationship and my interest in Asperger’s is a sign of genuine commitment to his well-being. Is there a way to communicate that? I am really confused how I should even open up this topic.

One:
The ending meeting abruptly and running away is likely due to two things:

Firstly, the social inability to know how to “wind down” and end a meeting in an appropriate manner.

Secondly, he is probably overloading or starting to overload, hence the abruptness. Sometimes we don’t realise that we are overloading until it is too late.
Even if we do realise, due to the first reason, we often don’t know how to extract ourselves out of the situation.

Overloads can be due to sensory, emotional, social or situational causes (those causes are important; you will need to remember them). The fact that he is waiting until it gets to that point before he leaves, and that he is leaving abruptly, probably means he enjoys spending time around you but overextends himself while attempting doing so, hence the style of leaving (if he didn’t like you he would probably try to avoid spending time with you at all). If you can pinpoint the causes out of the above 4 then, you may be able to make it less stressful for him so you can spend more time together before he needs to withdraw again.

Two:
The majority of the time, we do not intend to make insensitive comments (there are exceptions to this rule, but it tends to be a personality trait, not an aspie trait). We simply tell the truth. Many people are very uncomfortable with the truth, and would rather avoid it (try talking about slavery with the descendants of slave owners if you don't believe me ). Telling the truth and being considered insensitive is one thing. But doing it when it is completely unnecessary is another. Just because someone does not like what they hear does not necessarily make it insensitive – especially if it is the truth. It’s a fine line – one he has no understanding of. If you are ever in doubt – remember he is not an NT and do not judge him by your standards – in all probability he has good intentions.

Same for cruelty – cruelty is an intention as much as it is an action. I would encourage you to examine if it is actually offensive and intended to be hurtful – if no to both, then you may simply be very uncomfortable due your previous conditioning with complete honesty. If he hurts you by something he says, then you need to tell him “it really hurts me when you say ……. Please don’t do it again.”
He is unlikely to understand the concept of “private space”. He may realise that he has private space, but he will not even be aware of it until someone violates it. He has no such way of telling what your “private space” is, and therefore cannot tell when he violates it. Tell him or explain it to him verbally if he does it again.

Three:
Sensory overloads are different for all of us. You will have to pinpoint what specifically causes him to overload. Avoid it if possible. If not possible – work out a backup plan or a way to cope.

Four:
It will only be possible if both of you make a real and genuine attempt to understand each other. It has to come from both of you. If you do all the work – then it will never work. It has to be 50/50 from both sides. It won’t be easy for either of you, but it can be done. It starts with you dropping the expectations of expecting him to be an NT and judging him as such by their standards when he isn’t one. And he must do the same for you.



Five:
No we do not think people are out to get us.

And you do have those kinds fo thoughts - you just have them from the other side fo the fence. If you didn't have them then you wouldn't have misunderstandings with him.

What we hate, is NT’s constantly expecting us to be exactly like them and them judging us constantly by their standards – especially if they know we are not NT or if they have known us long enough to know we are different. (actually, I am sure I have had a rant about this before somewhere)

This does not show in overt ways - it is usually much more subtle than that (although it is never subtle to us). It is usually embedded in the way something is phrased (be it a question, statement or assumption), in the expectations, in the implications, in the underlying assumptions, in the framework itself. As an expectation or assumption so obvious it does not need to be said. That subtly does not make it any less painful to us. If anything, it makes it more painful – because we know they will never realise we are nothing like them, or if they do, they will forget again 2 minutes later and do the exact same thing to us again. A lifetime of this treatment takes it’s toll – the expectations, the assumptions, the judgments, the insults, the attacks, the exclusion – all based on the fact that we must be exactly like NT’s and therefore must have meant whatever it was we said, did or did not say or do - on purpose to insult or offend.

If you drop the NT expectations and judgements – you won’t feel that you are “walking on broken glass” anymore. If he does the same for you (doesn’t expect or judge you by AS standards), and you both make an effort to understand and communicate, the relationship will flow naturally because those unspoken expectations won’t be there to get hurt from to begin with.



How much social contact he can deal with is individual – as is how much time he needs with his special interest, there is no set ratio. I know I engage in my interest every day for at least 2 hours (an hour for each major one, since I have 2 major ones) as well as one 8 hour bout on the weekend. Personally – I can handle a once a week meeting if the person is NT, for dating purposes – more than that will tire me out. But he may be able to handle seeing you two times a week – although don’t push that at first now. Try once a week and see how he deals with it - once a week seems reasonable.

What you can expect from him is individual – talk to him about it and figure out what expectations both of you can deal with and handle - when the time comes. Relationships with aspies are not for the insecure. It takes more trust and respect than usual to make it work because you have to trust that their intentions are good even though as an NT due to the conditioning, they will often appear to have the opposite intentions – but they are also much more loyal and often very committed once involved.



Bullying issue is relevant - due to the above - since that is what bullying stems from.

Six:
I would not bring it up - let him do so if he wants to. You do not know how private he is as a person and whether he would consider it an intrusion..
Rather what you can do - is something called "soft disclosure" - mentioning things that are aspie specific without ever mentioning aspergers.
If unsure about something, you can ask him about something and he cane give you an asnwer.
e.g. Is it uncomfrtable for you when I make eye contact or when I do it too much?

Kjas, your insight is absolutely priceless –there is so much I don’t know. What worries me is that according to your interpretation he may be exposing himself to a very unpleasant experience in order to spend time with me. As much as I cherish the precious moments together, I don’t want him to hurt as a result. Also, I just received an unexpected email from him, in which he offered his help with a project I have been struggling with at work. I know that he is himself absolutely swamped (he went silent for about two weeks because of the sheer volume of work) and that my project is outside his interest, and your statement makes me think twice about accepting his offer. I want to be a source of positive influence in his life, not a burden.
It occurred to me that this offer of help may be an attempt to communicate affection. In that case will declining his offer hurt him? And how would you suggest I reciprocate in a way that would be accessible to him? How do I communicate affection without relying on touch or body language? I guess I could always scribble an obscenely frank note on a napkin that suggests what I would like to do to him at my place and pass it to him over coffee. Ugh…

Ladybug if he offered to help you with your project when he is swamped with work, you can bet your bottom dollar that that, is showing he cares. If I did that for anyone, it would probably mean I loved them (although I wouldn't so I guess I can't love). We show our affection with actions more than words. If you say no, I expect he will take that as rejection. Just be yourself and tell him. Don't over think. If he didn't want to help, he wouldn't have offered. We don't have hidden agendas like that, we already have too much to think f without adding any unnecessary stress.

He exposes himself to unpleasant things whenever he goes to work, or school, or generally leaves the house. It's a part of life for us. We just have to be selective about what we choose to expose ourselves to - and what we consider to be worth it. According to his actions so far - you are definitely worth it.

As I said before, you can pick places that will be easier for him to be around. Without knowing what causes him overloads, it's hard to say what that is exactly. But in general, at least to start with, keep to places that are quieter and do not have lots and lots of people. Ask him what causes him to overload (don't use the word overload - but you get what I mean).

He has been very forward with you so far - asking you out and going to coffee multiple times. Yes - I believe the offer is an expression of affection. We tend to express affection or emotion in more practical ways. He knows you need help, so this is his ways of showing he cares in a practical way. If you were to decline - then yes that would probably hurt him somewhat, certainly he would take it as a rejection.

Body language is something he can't read... so that way is out. But touch is not necessarily. Some aspies love touch, some don't like it at all - do you know if he likes or dislikes it? If he likes it, then it is a valid way - just try not to surprise him by doing it.

I'm not sure that obscene notes are the way to go.
If you are feeling bold, you could invite him around to dinner at your house. He certainly seems interested enough.
I wouldn't try to "jump" him or anything though.
Just go slow. Verbal signals are easier to understand though - another valid way to communicate affection.