Please help me (NT woman) understand. All advice welcome.

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daikoncattish
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26 Dec 2012, 6:13 pm

Recently, my AS bf and I got into a fight. I was stressed out and extremely angry, so I told him that I needed to cool off, but I would talk to him in two days when I could think more clearly. After two days, we shared a little chit chat, nothing serious, and agreed to talk about the fight the next day because we were tired. Well, the next day rolls around and no word from him. I call him a few times during the day, and send him a few texts. They were messages like, "So, I haven't heard from you. Let me know what's going on." Nothing. More time passes. 36 hours pass. I am freaking out. When I finally hear from him, I am upset and bewildered.

We discuss. I ask him why he would do something like that, and he said it's because I did the same thing to him. I explain to him that there's a big difference between the two situations. I ask him, "What would I have to text or say to you to make you answer the phone to let me know you're okay?" He answered very matter of factly, "Oh, well like, if you were really worried I would've stopped to let you know."

WrongPlanet, please explain.

Regardless of what he did or did not understand, I let him know very clearly that this wasn't a cool way to express his anger towards me. But how much of this is about not understanding? I just feel so skeptical that a person could have so many missed calls and not think something was wrong...or that they could receive a text message begging to know what's going on, but purposely ignore it. But then, I also have never really dealt with an AS bf before.

We've had instances like this before where I am completely confused. Another example of a conversation...
Me: I am exhausted from work, feel sick to my stomach, and in general feel like I'm losing it. I am so upset.
Him: Why are you upset?

THIS BLOWS MY MIND.

Please help me understand. I feel I'm not being fair, but I also need to know what his limitations are in these situations. I understand what asperger's is about, but obviously need some help. Couldn't some of these things be understood logically? Can he really not see how his actions could be interpreted as cruel and worrisome?

Ugh, I just don't get it. Please, help me learn. And thank you in advance to all of the kind people that reply.



MCalavera
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26 Dec 2012, 6:57 pm

Quote:
Me: I am exhausted from work, feel sick to my stomach, and in general feel like I'm losing it. I am so upset.
Him: Why are you upset?


He has Asperger's. Give a clear answer to his question explaining why you're upset exactly, and it'll make things easier for you. If you want him to show you emotional support when you need it, stop hinting at it. Just be straightforward and say stuff like "I need you to hug me or listen to what I feel like saying or hold my hands, etc."



compcuanol
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26 Dec 2012, 6:59 pm

You should remember he's probably just as confused about some of the things YOU say and do. Also most people with AS appreciate honesty. The best way to understand an aspie is to ask him directly why he acts a certain way. Ask him very specific questions with examples like you did in your post and he should answer honestly if he feels you just want to understand him better.



heatherbk
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26 Dec 2012, 7:09 pm

Sorry to hear what you're going through. It sounds like a frustrating situation to be in :(

1. Well with regards to him ignoring your phone calls and messages on purpose, it is wrong regardless of his condition or not.

2. Me: I am exhausted from work, feel sick to my stomach, and in general feel like I'm losing it. I am so upset.
Him: Why are you upset?

With regards to his reaction to what you told him, people with aspergers have problem empathizing with others.
His better response could have been a number of things like, I'm sorry you are sick is there anything I can do to make you feel better.

3. Can he really not see how his actions could be interpreted as cruel and worrisome?
Sometimes you have to speak out and let him know that his actions could be interpreted as cruel and worrisome.
I'm currently reading a book called The Journal of Best Practices written by David Finch and I find it helpful in understanding aspie behaviors.



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26 Dec 2012, 7:27 pm

daikoncattish wrote:
We've had instances like this before where I am completely confused. Another example of a conversation...
Me: I am exhausted from work, feel sick to my stomach, and in general feel like I'm losing it. I am so upset.
Him: Why are you upset?

THIS BLOWS MY MIND.


heatherbk wrote:
His better response could have been a number of things like, I'm sorry you are sick is there anything I can do to make you feel better.

Wouldn't asking "Why are you upset?" achieve the same aim?



MCalavera
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26 Dec 2012, 7:34 pm

heatherbk wrote:
Sorry to hear what you're going through. It sounds like a frustrating situation to be in :(

1. Well with regards to him ignoring your phone calls and messages on purpose, it is wrong regardless of his condition or not.

2. Me: I am exhausted from work, feel sick to my stomach, and in general feel like I'm losing it. I am so upset.
Him: Why are you upset?

With regards to his reaction to what you told him, people with aspergers have problem empathizing with others.
His better response could have been a number of things like, I'm sorry you are sick is there anything I can do to make you feel better.

3. Can he really not see how his actions could be interpreted as cruel and worrisome?
Sometimes you have to speak out and let him know that his actions could be interpreted as cruel and worrisome.
I'm currently reading a book called The Journal of Best Practices written by David Finch and I find it helpful in understanding aspie behaviors.


The mistake is in expecting an Aspie to be an NT when it comes to emotional support.

Aspies can certainly empathize emotionally but NTs keep failing to understand that we are not NTs.



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26 Dec 2012, 7:37 pm

heatherbk wrote:
Sorry to hear what you're going through. It sounds like a frustrating situation to be in :(

1. Well with regards to him ignoring your phone calls and messages on purpose, it is wrong regardless of his condition or not.


I agree. I have no explenation to why he didn't answer. It might be that he was confused and/or wanted to spend some time alone and did not think it matters whether he spoke to you right there and then or a couple of days later.

heatherbk wrote:
2. Me: I am exhausted from work, feel sick to my stomach, and in general feel like I'm losing it. I am so upset.
Him: Why are you upset?

With regards to his reaction to what you told him, people with aspergers have problem empathizing with others.
His better response could have been a number of things like, I'm sorry you are sick is there anything I can do to make you feel better.


That's not entirely correct. We can emphantize with other just fine ( often so we have more empathy than NT people. ) But we have a hard time showing empathy and we often struggle to know what to do in various situations. In this situation I would react just like him; I would want to find out more about why you were upset, so that I help in the best possible way. I think it would help to just tell him "whenever I feel upset, a hug always helps" or something along thoose lines. That way he knows what to do.

heatherbk wrote:
3. Can he really not see how his actions could be interpreted as cruel and worrisome?
Sometimes you have to speak out and let him know that his actions could be interpreted as cruel and worrisome.
I'm currently reading a book called The Journal of Best Practices written by David Finch and I find it helpful in understanding aspie behaviors.


I agree. It's often hard for us to know that what we are saying can be interpreted cruel and worrisome. Pretty sure people have mistaken what I say for being cruel or mean, though it's extremely rare that I mean to say something mean to a person. I don't think I ever have meant to say anything mean to a person, what I say is almost always intended positively.



MCalavera
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26 Dec 2012, 7:47 pm

Yeah, he probably wants to know why you got upset because he thinks that's the way to show you support.

Definitely better than a response like "Well, get over it then!"



heatherbk
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26 Dec 2012, 7:48 pm

That's not entirely correct. We can emphantize with other just fine ( often so we have more empathy than NT people. ) But we have a hard time showing empathy and we often struggle to know what to do in various situations. In this situation I would react just like him; I would want to find out more about why you were upset, so that I help in the best possible way. I think it would help to just tell him "whenever I feel upset, a hug always helps" or something along thoose lines. That way he knows what to do.

Of course people with aspergers can empathize with others however, some people have problem with empathy more so than others. Sometimes it's also about the way we respond to things that can upset other people. If I was clearly having a hard day, I wouldn't wanna just hear why are you upset from my partner. Just asking why is not the way to show empathy.



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26 Dec 2012, 7:57 pm

Quote:
I ask him why he would do something like that, and he said it's because I did the same thing to him. I explain to him that there's a big difference between the two situations. I ask him, "What would I have to text or say to you to make you answer the phone to let me know you're okay?" He answered very matter of factly, "Oh, well like, if you were really worried I would've stopped to let you know."

WrongPlanet, please explain.

He explained it in your quote; he said it's because you did the same thing to him. I don't see this as an AS thing; perhaps this is simply how this guy rolls. There are various reasons a person of any neurological arrangement might do this, either for the reason he stated or for a different reason. I'm not trying to imply that this is a good thing or even a neutral thing in a relationship. Assume that this may be how he operates.

Quote:
I ask him, "What would I have to text or say to you to make you answer the phone to let me know you're okay?" He answered very matter of factly, "Oh, well like, if you were really worried I would've stopped to let you know."

Again not necessarily an AS thing. I'd assume that he knew you were angry with him and he was evading or putting off a difficult encounter with you. Lot's of people will go to great lengths to avoid confrontation. Isn't he implying that he knew you weren't worried about his well being and if that's why he thought you were repeatedly texting him, he'd have responded?

Quote:
But how much of this is about not understanding?

I can't imagine it's about not understanding. My low IQ AS godson understands when someone is repeatedly calling him that they really, really want him to reply. And like every other man in the free world, he knows that he doesn't have to reply; he may choose not to.

Quote:
I just feel so skeptical that a person could have so many missed calls and not think something was wrong...or that they could receive a text message begging to know what's going on, but purposely ignore it.

I assume he knew something was wrong, he probably knew that you were mad at him and purposely did not respond because he was avoiding confrontation. That's not unusual; it's maddening, but it's not unusual behavior for anyone averse to confrontation.

Quote:
We've had instances like this before where I am completely confused. Another example of a conversation...
Me: I am exhausted from work, feel sick to my stomach, and in general feel like I'm losing it. I am so upset.
Him: Why are you upset?

Maybe this is a little bit AS. He wasn't listening. This happens a lot with my AS guy friends. They are not good listeners (the particular guys I know). They are very much in their heads and often don't track conversation well. He probably didn't hear the first part of your statement and only heard the part about how you felt. So he asked why, not having heard; "I am exhausted from work".

Quote:
Couldn't some of these things be understood logically?

Probably not; you're talking about relationship stuff; and guys in general struggle in this area; much less AS guys. Often what seems so obvious to woman eludes men (and probably the converse). I suspect in the realm of relationship, logic does not strictly apply.


Quote:
Can he really not see how his actions could be interpreted as cruel and worrisome?

He probably really can't. People who are averse to confrontation are oblivious to the effect of not responding to confrontation on the confront-er. The confrontationally averse are driven totally inward by anything even vaguely resembling anger or disappointment with them.

My best advise to anyone in a relationship with someone with AS is to navigate as they would in relationship with anyone. Get to know the individual and negotiate the rough patches. Sooner or later you are going to encounter some intractable areas which will not yield to change and you will accept or reject on the basis of the whole relationship; just as you would do in any relationship.



Last edited by MountainLaurel on 26 Dec 2012, 8:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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26 Dec 2012, 7:57 pm

heatherbk wrote:
Of course people with aspergers can empathize with others however, some people have problem with empathy more so than others. Sometimes it's also about the way we respond to things that can upset other people. If I was clearly having a hard day, I wouldn't wanna just hear why are you upset from my partner.


That's why it's a good idea to just give him a few hints as to what to do when you are upset. Otherwise we ( at least I ) would use a more objective approach; finding the reason as to why you are upset and then try to fix it. Guess that's why I'm an engineer =P



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26 Dec 2012, 8:09 pm

morslilleole wrote:
heatherbk wrote:
Of course people with aspergers can empathize with others however, some people have problem with empathy more so than others. Sometimes it's also about the way we respond to things that can upset other people. If I was clearly having a hard day, I wouldn't wanna just hear why are you upset from my partner.


That's why it's a good idea to just give him a few hints as to what to do when you are upset. Otherwise we ( at least I ) would use a more objective approach; finding the reason as to why you are upset and then try to fix it. Guess that's why I'm an engineer =P


Using an objective approach is good but sometimes people also want to feel understood or feel comforted (regardless of being an aspie or not) before being asked the reason as to why they are upset.



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27 Dec 2012, 12:25 am

daikoncattish wrote:
Recently, my AS bf and I got into a fight. I was stressed out and extremely angry, so I told him that I needed to cool off, but I would talk to him in two days when I could think more clearly. After two days, we shared a little chit chat, nothing serious, and agreed to talk about the fight the next day because we were tired. Well, the next day rolls around and no word from him. I call him a few times during the day, and send him a few texts. They were messages like, "So, I haven't heard from you. Let me know what's going on." Nothing. More time passes. 36 hours pass. I am freaking out. When I finally hear from him, I am upset and bewildered.

We discuss. I ask him why he would do something like that, and he said it's because I did the same thing to him. I explain to him that there's a big difference between the two situations. I ask him, "What would I have to text or say to you to make you answer the phone to let me know you're okay?" He answered very matter of factly, "Oh, well like, if you were really worried I would've stopped to let you know."

WrongPlanet, please explain.

Regardless of what he did or did not understand, I let him know very clearly that this wasn't a cool way to express his anger towards me. But how much of this is about not understanding? I just feel so skeptical that a person could have so many missed calls and not think something was wrong...or that they could receive a text message begging to know what's going on, but purposely ignore it. But then, I also have never really dealt with an AS bf before.

We've had instances like this before where I am completely confused. Another example of a conversation...
Me: I am exhausted from work, feel sick to my stomach, and in general feel like I'm losing it. I am so upset.
Him: Why are you upset?

THIS BLOWS MY MIND.

Please help me understand. I feel I'm not being fair, but I also need to know what his limitations are in these situations. I understand what asperger's is about, but obviously need some help. Couldn't some of these things be understood logically? Can he really not see how his actions could be interpreted as cruel and worrisome?

Ugh, I just don't get it. Please, help me learn. And thank you in advance to all of the kind people that reply.


i think you get it just fine. i may not be able to interpret my actions as cruel and worrisome, but i certainly know that they are once i learn from the source that they were felt to have that impact. that said, he either modifies his behavior according to the feedback you give him or he doesnt. then it is your decision to stay or to leave him. when i read your post, i get mixed feelings. on the one hand, you seem to be asking for an explanation from wrongplanet that would serve as a place-holder for your fear of being not good enough to be treated well. in other words, if his AS caused his behavior, then you would be free from your worry that it was caused by a fault in your character. on the other hand, your information seeking may be helpful, though it relies on generalizations (which exist for a reason, cognitively, so i am not knocking them). an example of why your thoughtfulness might be useful is learning of your 'freakoutedness' after thirty-six hours. im not sure exactly how many phone calls were made and texts sent in those thirty-six hours, but the fact that you point that out as being a long period of time tells me a little bit about the anxiety you must have been experiencing. ill tell you what, NOTHING makes me shutdown/meltdown faster than a vibrating cell phone when i am already agitated. i wonder if he would not have responded to you in less time if no effort to contact him was made. heh, its kind of funny because people with AS are said to be not very wise to the law of social exchange theory, which explains much about attraction ('the one with the least amount of interest has the most amount of power', in your case and for example), but you were the one in this situation who made that social error. perhaps your relationship is like that episode of the twilight zone when the viewer realizes at the end that the woman is the alien and the robot is the earthling (i am kidding with you now).



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27 Dec 2012, 1:04 am

Sounds like you blasted him really hard... if you push him away hard enough, why would you be surprised when he doesn't come running back?

Did you even acknowledge and apologize for your behaviour? Maybe he's afraid of the next time you lose your cool and blast him again?

Snarl at him often enough (especially for something not his fault) he may simply hide away from you to avoid being hurt again.



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27 Dec 2012, 2:43 am

I didn't see anything about blasting or snarling.. I'm not sure what you think she has to apologize for, his behavior is cruel, not hers.

I honestly don't know, I am terrible at communicating with people when they act like that. You've got a lot more patience than I do. One thing, the "I did this to you because you did it to me first..." thing is pretty destructive and childish. I think it's probably important you address that with him and explain the difference between you asking for time to cool off and him being passive aggressive and retaliating to the perceived slight instead of talking to you about it..

You seem to be keeping pretty cool about it, honestly I would dump my partner if he/she acted like that.


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27 Dec 2012, 3:05 am

meems wrote:
I didn't see anything about blasting or snarling.. I'm not sure what you think she has to apologize for, his behavior is cruel, not hers.


It's very slightly implied at the beginning. We don't know why they fought, except she's the one who couldn't control her temper then had to disappear for 2(or so?) days. Then she expected him to just welcome her back with no permanent issue - after all, she wasn't angry anymore.

His not responding is NOT cruel. Why do you think it's okay for someone to get so mad, and fight so much that they have to leave for DAYS? That's pretty extreme temper and anyone who's not thick-skinned is going to recoil from that.

I find it amusing how, even though she was the aggressor, some still say to dump him for merely not responding to her fast enough after she's decided to come back and pretend everything's fine and nothing happened. (Then got angry again when she didn't get the reaction she was hoping for.)

While every Aspie is different, most are quite analytical. The past is an indicator of the future... and one savage out-of-control fight usually means more on the horizon.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's worried that you can't control your temper and all the negatives that go with it.

morslilleole wrote:
That's why it's a good idea to just give him a few hints as to what to do when you are upset.


Since when do we Aspies ever get hints? ;) I'd be more direct... downright blunt by NT standards.