There is no spontaneous relationship

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I hear women all the time saying that they want a man who is spontaneous and natural around her. But have you ever heard a man say that? I bet no, because men know that it is expected that they change themselves to meet the woman's needs, and not vise versa.

If women really appreciate sincere men, then there wouldn't be so many lonely chumps. You really think that their problem with loners that they never tried acting like themselves? Why would you bother trying to be something you're not if you haven't even tried acting like yourself yet? Why would you do something difficult and unpleasant before trying something easy and fun? The thought never occurred to me to look into PUA until I had acted like myself several dozen times and been met with contempt rather than kindness and respect. I've found that women on the whole respond much better to a playboy act than to real people. It is also my unfortunate experience that the less I respect women, the more they are attracted to me.

I think the problem most women have is that they all want a guy who is hot, rich, socially connected, and who understands women's feelings. But that is only one guy in a 100, so all the ladies want that guy, and then they are surprised when he doesn't care about her or cheats on her (he has a dozen other girls just like you). If a guy is able to woo you and make it seem natural and spontaneous, it's probably because he's done it before at least a dozen times. No normal man will be able to sweep you off your feet just by going about his merry business and acting like himself.

Also, men generally aren't considered to be attractive mates until they have a steady job, a house, and a car. So he has to work for several years before he can get those things. A man might be 30 before he is as attractive in the dating market before the average 21 year old woman is. And because a man is expected to know how to make women feel good without being told, he probably also had to go through a lot of rejections and learn to modify his behavior before he gets it right. So being attractive in dating is something that a man earns through a lot of effort, whereas a woman gets it for nothing.

I've tried being sincere, and honest, and kind, and it doesn't work. My response is, "f**k you." If treating people with respect and kindness won't get me the same in return, I'll either avoid you, or tell you whatever lie I have to to get you to act the way I want.

If this is true, then how the hell do all the guys I work with have wives/girlfriends?!

Bill is making some logical comments here. Although I would narrow that age gap from 18-24.

I wouldn't say any of this has anything to do with a nice guy. You will find plenty of women out there who will be too demanding and who have absolutely no understanding of why men need to pull away to be themselves before coming back to them. If you give in, you will start feeling guilty when you try to pull away out of fear of being punished. This type of relationship never worked for me. And lots of women I dated simply didn't understand the man's need to pull away in order to get closer to her again. These types of women then didn't understand as they grow older why no men desired them.

Of course, there is one thing I didn't understand very clearly was what a woman wanted and needed from me. It seemed everytime she wanted to talk about things, I didnt know what to do. I would pull away myself and then come back to be punished for it. Eventually, I learned that I needed to communicate in a way that would not make them feel rejected when I needed the time for myself. She needed assurance that I did care and would be back to meet her needs. Of course, I would wonder why these women would dump me when I was ready to come back after she was left to feel rejected.

The maturity process works differently for people. It takes some longer to understand how and why men and women communicate the way they do. Of course, if you continue to treat people like crap, don't be surprised with the results.

Being in a relationship, and the happiest, healthiest kind, too, I think I can offer something (as I've gone through various, yet I'm still young enough [about 18] to still comment on teens, while offering some perspective for the young adults?) here.

One thing I didn't see here was something I feel is very important, in the nice guy discussion: How interesting you are. There's too much of a stereotype going on.

What is a "nice guy"? Someone who's patient, doesn't cheat, understands, loves, treats the woman (or other man) as the most important thing, and has her/him as his top priority? That sounds about right? The last part, having the (wo)man as the top priority in one's life, can be taken too far. I don't mean that it's bad to treat someone as important; but too much can lead you to being a doormat, a "boring" nice guy.

That kind of guy is suitable for some people. But what I've encountered is that having someone as THE top priority, and not pursuing other things even if it means some sacrifices with that person, makes for a.. well, a stagnant, predictable existence. And some people enjoy that. For me, pursuing my education and interests and keeping my moral code are all priorities, and I treat them as such. My significant other - I make sure she knows that even though she wants to, I don't want her buying me a lot of stuff, since it's against my beliefs/morals. I make sure to put my classes first; and I communicate that to her by reminding her that us staying together and having more, potentially better, freedom in the future rides on how well I do and excel in school today, and it's the same for her. I also make time for my clubs; I don't text her during those times, because I really do enjoy them and get involved.

She isn't pushed to the back. I talk to her in spare moments; we have 'vacation time' where we spend weeks together. I love her, and I treat her well every day, as though every day could be our last; I make sure she knows I love her.

I AM a spontaneous person; but that's something I grew to be, not someone I was. I developed randomness and spontaneity over years of trying, and my belief system is far deep in the gray area between black and white that she still finds things in there she doesn't expect. I do things for her I wouldn't for others; one prime example is trying food that with others, I normally would say I don't like (since I haven't tried it).

We live an interesting life, but the main things that tie us together are our major beliefs (in doing good and all that jazz; but acknowledging we may not be able to change the world; that love does exist and can do great things; etc), and our patience, our want, our willingness to talk things out when we have disputes, and our consideration for each other.

That is what, I feel, entails being a suitable "nice guy". It's not that I'm perfect; but I'm honest with her about my feelings, whatever they may be, and we work together. I'm happy, she's happy.

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I think you guys will like my blog. http://modestyking.wordpress.com/

Well, the person I was seeing, said I was treating her like a whore. When we broke up she said I was such a nice guy. *facepalm*.

Why blondes are so bashed btw?