Why are strong women seen as the enemy?

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I'm putting this here because it fits a lot of the discussions we have here right now, and also because I want input from guys and gals as well.

Why is it seen as a bad thing if a woman is strong enough to stand her ground and take care of herself and she wants to empower other women to do the same? Why do the same women who say "We don't want men to open our car doors for us, we don't need that, we are capable of doing it ourselves and don't need to be treated like glass!" then turn around and say "We need protection from whiners saying words we don't like!"? I really want to know that. I do. I really do.

We want equality, but yet we still want to have our little ears and eyes shielded from offensive things. You want to be equal to men, but you don't want any of the responsiblity for handling yourself that men have for themselves. We will not be taken seriously as equals until we stop picking and choosing which things we are weak about and which things we are strong about.

And why is this in love and dating, in stead of 'Women's discussion'?

Anyway, in be4 thread is closed.

I thought I answered that in the opening statement. It's here because so many of the topics here lately have become a "this is offensive and we must be protected against those words!" fest. It's relevant to the recent posts on here.

Why would it be closed? I asked a question, thats all. Then again, maybe it's sexist to say that learning to handle our own issues and to see perspective is a good thing.

Maybe I should get the vapors over whiner guy posts too and insist that somebody go fix it for me too.

i think perhaps a more accurate title for this thread, and for you generally, might be "why do i treat strong women as my enemy?"

i personally would be interested in the answer, if you happen to know it.

we all have insecurities, no one is exempt from that, it's the human condition. i just think acting our insecurities out on others is not a productive way for people to deal, nor is it acceptable. antagonism doesn't make you strong--genuine confidence in yourself does: if you found a way to cultivate more of the latter, you may feel your need for the former lessen.

Quite possibly it's not so much about wanting to be "protected" from words, as it is about wanting to educate people about negative attitudes in general, and hate speech in particular. It is well documented throughout history that hateful words can lead to hateful actions.

Also, is there anyone on this forum who does NOT want to see other members here have success with love and dating? It seems like helping people to recognize self-defeating behavior is a much better path to success than indulging the whining and negative attitudes.

I'm not insecure and I do have genuine confidence. Thats pretty much why I can just blow off what the whiney guys say about "all women in general". I know it's BS and most guys don't feel that way. You never saw me go after one of them on here when they said that s**t? Cause I have, more than once. It does no good and their whining is based on their lack of success with the ladies rather than on sexism. I've tried to help them too, as have many others, but it doesn't work because they refuse to try.

Why not fight actual sexism instead of some perceived sexism online? Join groups that are fighting for womens rights and equality in those middle eastern countries where you could get killed for showing an ankle or driving a car. See what you can do to make your voice heard against female circumcision which actually sometimes happens in this country as well. Stand up for women actually being oppressed and endangered. Support a self defense for women class. Tell other women that standing up for ourselves in situations is probably going to make much more of an impact than having one guy tell another guy they can't say something that upset someone.

I don't see what these guys are saying as sexist. It's not sexism, it's simply whining. That's what got me against this whole thing. If I saw it as actual sexism I'd be behind you on this one. I don't, so I'm not.

I do not know. But I do find this attitude a slap in the face to the true pioneers who sacrificed so much personally, and still do, in fighting for womens' rights , in addition to the millions of men who are trying to say and do the right thing, knowing whatever they say or do, a huge chunk of women are not going to be happy about it. [ just one of the reasons,that, in general, men have it rougher than women,particularly in the Autistic world]

need i cite the antisemitic propaganda of nazi germany, oliveoilmom? those words were not harmless. did nothing bad came of that? nothing bad can happen when you talk about an entire population like they are less human than you, more like animals, base, slaves to instinctual self-interest? nothing bad happens when that kind of way of talking about a population pervades a community? we are not being "hysterical" or "easily offended" for pointing this out.



^^^^also very much this.

A handful of lonely guys who nobody ever listens to in real life posting frustrated things on the internet is hardly equal to Hitler's speeches, nor of Nazism. What are these guys gonna do, start a movement to send us all back to the kitchen and make us barefoot and pregnant? You see this kind of thing out there where you live a lot? Guys going around saying that kind of crap about all women on a regular basis? No. It's guys who can't get any attention from women and who are mad at us all over it. It's not a major attitude in society. It's not becoming something that is a threat.

If you are equating a whiner post on a subforum on an internet forum that most people don't really even know exists with Hitler's rantings and putting them in the same category of danger, then you sorely need perspective.

No, actually, the disrespect and treating women as objects is still alive and well in America. We're backsliding from the progress we as women have made over the last century. I see sexism everywhere, not just on WP.

Encouraging the "lonely guys" here by patting them on the head and indulging their (marginally to overtly) sexist/misogynist whining is doing no one any favors, particularly not THEM. That has been my point all along, and it baffles me to see people who see nothing wrong with encouraging negative attitudes. Negative attitudes become self-fulfilling prophecies.

I felt the analogy supremely inappropriate as well. Much further than an apples to oranges comparison, as to a broken baby bird to Satan comparison.

Nobody is encouraging them or patting them on the head. I've reamed many of them in my day on here, as have plenty of others, male as well as female. I don't really see it in society though. What in society are you talking about when you say we are backsliding?

As for treating women like objects, if you mean when people are pursuing romance or talking about it, I don't see that as a threat. Guys who see a pretty female and say to another guy "I'd like to tap that!" aren't really going to be pursuing women who want to be liked for their brain only and who get offended when they are told they are sexy. There are plenty of guys out there who would be going for the personality and brains etc, and not be so overt with the sexual part, but not all guys. There are also plenty of females who look at attractive men as sex objects and have the same types of conversations among themselves that those type of guys do about women.

I do honestly want to know where you see the backsliding in society at, in relations to womens rights. I am interested in your opinion on that, because as I said, I don't see it. I don't keep up with the news and world events much anymore, and am now somewhat isolated culturally, so I'd be interested to know what I'm missing by not being tuned into it. I've been active in quite a few things to stop all kinds of discrimination, in my time, so I'd be interested to know whats going on that I'm missing.

Lol, I think you guys should get your own forum, "The Argument that Never Goes Anywhere" Forum. Then you could just keep making new threads saying the same things over and over. Oh wait, you already do that! Not that I care, but it's kind of amusing. I used to do the same thing though with a certain member here, back and forth like we were caught in a trap. I feel ya.

OOM, that whole negativity toward strong woman thing annoys the crap out of me too. I find it really odd, but society still rewards women who play weak. Well that's my perspective anyway, maybe it's skewed.

I see it at work, I see it at the grocery store, I see it in the multiple internet forums in which I participate. I actually *do* get out a lot, and keep up with current social and political trends and, trust me, it's growing. If, as a society, we were just at a plateau as far as women's rights are concerned, I wouldn't particularly notice. But it's because of the backsliding I see all around me that I speak up here.

Also, I have been involved with enough people in my life to know that enabling them in their victimhood is the worst thing anyone can do for them. Better to give them a little "tough love" in a relatively safe environment (such as WP) than to have them become so comfortable in victimhood that they can never turn it around and find happiness in life.

Please give me some examples of what you see when you are out please. I'm not saying that to challenge you or tell you to prove anything, I'm honestly curious. I'm stuck in a small town with no transportation, and we only have Netflix and the computer, so I'm sort of out of touch with the rest of the world outside of this place, and I'm really curious.

As for the tough love thing, I'm so for it! I've done it to those who won't take responsibility and I'll do it again. I also speak up when I think somebody is making a huge deal out of something that isn't one. That's why I said about this idea that if a whiners in L&D are bothering you or making you feel bad, don't read them. I feel that asking for them to be moderated for an emotional rant because it upset someone is sort of validating the victimhood of the upset person and reinforcing the idea that anyone has the right to be guarded against having their feelings hurt or being offended. Nobody has that right, anywhere. There are lines that can be crossed and degrees of insult that are acted on, but these are so minor that it's silly to act on them and I think it's silly to be that upset over an "all women do this" statement. I think that learning to toughen up emotionally is very important to everyone. The whiners and the insulted alike.

All that anyone has *ever* been asking, in any of these threads, is that when it *does* cross that line, that it get moderated the same way any other kind of "ism" gets moderated.