Expectations and manipulation

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Here is the question, Should I eliminate ALL expectations when meeting new people. I see a girl and yes there is a sexual motivation to meet her. Am I wrong for that?

I am accused of being nice because I have ulterior motives. I like sex, it's awesome! I appreciate it and I treat women with respect and I tell them what I think when I do not like something. I show affection and care when I am approached with their problems.

Is it because friend zone is that dreaded place that no man with a sex drive should ever be in?

it is not; the friend zone is a concept stared by pick-up artists, that seem to think that whenever you do something nice for a woman, she is supposed to reward you with sex, while being 'just friends' is sloppy seconds.

i don't mind being 'just friends' with women, and therefore are practically immune to the friend zone.
the ulterior motive is a tricky one; do you help others (women in particular) for the chance of sex, or do you help because your are indeed a nice guy.

I'm my case, i am option #2. if i really feel the need to have no-strings-attached sex, i can always pay for it.


there is nothing wrong with approaching a women because you would like to have sex with her, as long as you don't proceed with only doing things for her to satisfy that goal.

Yes. Unless it's things that come under "being a decent human being", such as "I expect she will not bring a gang of friends to beat me up and steal my money". Providing sex is an extra, it doesn't fall under the basic-decency category.

Hopes are one thing.

Expectations are completely different.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being sexually attracted to someone. The problem comes when you feel entitled to sex because of your behaviour.

And what is so wrong with being friends with a person of the opposite sex? Why is friendship "dreaded?" I always thought friendship was a great gift. If your only interest in a woman is to have sex with her that is kind of crappy.

There's nothing bad about friendship per se. Heck, I myself have friends who are girls; some single, some not, but that's largely irrelevant. We usually go Latin dancing together when we hang out, and any flirting that happens is low-level and largely in a joking way. Hugs are as physical as it gets, and mostly because handshakes feel unnatural and self-limiting in male/female friendships. In this case, we have a shared interest---dancing---that doesn't always work between two girls (because neither may know how to lead), and downright impossible between two guys.

Friendship becomes "bad" when it's given because the girl isn't sexually interested, but still wants the benefit that a boyfriend would normally give: computer repairs, car rides, gifts, etc. She gets what she wants, but doesn't give anything in return. Bluntly put, it's psychological theft. A girl with a sense of integrity would simply not ask for "boyfriend benefits" from a male friend, unless they're both critical and infrequent. For example, a once-in-a-blue-moon pick-up from the airport is perfectly OK; frequent rides "because she doesn't feel like driving" are a no-no.

It's not good when people don't reciprocate favours.

In your examples of computer repairs and car rides, are you saying that a man in a relationship would only do theses things in exchange for sex? If so, this is something I've long suspected. It seems men's only interest in me is sexual. Maybe that's all I bring to a relationship.

As Eleanor Roosevelt once said, people (which obviously includes hot girls) cannot take advantage of you without your permission.

It is NOT "psychological theft" -- it's either (1) a desperate guy offering favor after favor after CLEARLY UNRECIPROCATED FAVOR to a girl who isn't interested or (2) a selfish girl who asks a spineless desperate guy for favor after unreciprocated favor, cuz the guy is a CHUMP.

You have ZERO control over other people's behavior - all you can do is change YOUR behavior by refusing to let others take advantage of you!!

Maybe so. But it takes two to tango. So who's more at fault: the desperate chump who got friend-zoned and is wasting effort doing favors, or the girl who's taking advantage of him in the first place? He should know better. She should have better morals. I don't feel sorry for either of them.

This is really good.

I let my ex come over and play guitar with me since its our common interest. We have fun and joke about the old relationship and have fun with how we changed.

There is a limit between us, but there isn't. Respect. We respect each other more and building a new relation with out the fear of expectations.


Expectations, is the cause of fear, then anger then hate ...yadda yadda thank you Yoda.

Yes I am still sexually attracted to her, and I think of the physical time we had together. When she shows affection for me and lets me hold her like I use to, it feels great.

So doing favours for someone is wasted effort unless you get sex in exchange. And I guess a woman accepting help from a man is using her sexuality for gain? For heaven's sake, I really think prostitution should be legalized and sex put entirely in the commercial zone. Maybe then men and woman can meet on even ground.

Nope, that's not what I said. Not at ALL. Also, this "friend zone" concept is made up by pickup artists... it doesn't actually exist.

You cannot control other people's behavior -- just yours. If you feel like a desperate chump who is getting taken advantage of by some girl, STOP DOING FAVORS FOR HER. Your problem is solved.

If you're finding that going into EVERYTHING with "expectations" when ya meet new people isn't working for ya, by all means, try something else!

I went out to a Goth Event to see a girl I really like and to try to be social.

She knows I like her and sometimes she chases me, and yes I chase her. I surprise her by showing up and I could not tell if she was happy about it. I started to actually meet the people that she knows.

To make a long story short. I buy her a whip that she wanted. I say we ought to try this out one day in a long sexual session. She says, well since you bought it for me I owe you. I say, I want to do it because I like you. She just tells me to shut up! I think she joking.

I didn't go home with her, but I feel that I got little to aggressive with her when she started to pace erratically. I asked her if she was looking for some one and she said just needed to wonder. I went home feeling a little uneasy that I might have made her feel uncomfortable.

The problem comes because sex is a basic human need.

Well, no, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Its human nature. Its definitely something I think should be discussed and upfront about, like, "oh hey, I'm sexually attracted to you, just so you know, and I want more physically from you." But I think that about everything (i.e. that people need to be more blunt and leads to less confusion and misunderstandings). But that could just be me.

I agree with Jjancee. If you keep doing "favors" for a chick who clearly is taking advantage, you have no one to blame but yourself. And if you keep doing it with the intention of sex but the other person doesn't know that, then that seems a lot like karma.

And yeah, you probably have made the Goth Girl uncomfortable, unfortunately.

I don't get why people can't just be more open and upfront in general. ><