Define "Nice Guy" and define "Alpha Male" please. Really.

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Both of these seem to be hot button terms used here and I'd honestly like to hear some detailed definitions of what people mean when they use them.

I'll list my definitions of them later on, but I'd like to see what some other people mean first. If you don't mind, give me a list of qualities that these guys have, things they do that make them fit the term.

These seem like no brainer type things here because the terms speak for themselves, but I'm not sure if everyone here has the same definition of what they mean. What are some of the attributes of a "nice guy" and of an "alpha male"? Are they ever the same thing? Why or why not?

Short answers:

Nice Guy - A man or boy who behaves with deference toward women and girls.

Alpha Male - A man or boy who seeks primacy over females and other males.

Longer answers:

A nice guy is non-aggressive, non-assertive, and generally uninteresting, but who can be relied upon for a compliment or to run an errand, and who rarely, if ever, initiates romance or inspires romantic feelings in the women and girls he admires. While he may be considered 'cute' by women, he is usually "friend-zoned" by these same women for lack of any sexual or emotional appeal.

An alpha male is an arrogant jerk who exploits others' insecurities to bolster his own self-esteem, and who often resorts to intimidation and deprecation to assert a dominant social role among others. He is often physically attractive, and enhances his attractiveness with material wealth, athletic prowess, physical abuse, or any combination thereof.

Within a WP context, a "Nice Guy" (with the trademark) is one who uses his "niceness" to manipulate women into going out with them. After a while, these "Nice Guys" become not so nice, apparently.

I'm a "nice guy." But I'm not Fnord's "nice guy" or the "trademark" Nice Guy.

I'm not an Alpha Male, either. I don't care if some woman thinks I'm an Omega Man---I know what I'm about!

Your answers were kind of what I was going after. They aren't the way I define them at all and thats why I asked, to see if there was a very different way of using the terms. I know they are meant at times to be the same thing as "victim" and "jerk", but I honestly never saw them that way. Here are my definitions.

A nice guy doesn't think being mean to someone is funny or entertaining and won't make fun of people or do something to hurt someone for no reason. He generally tries to do the right thing in most situations, and he has manners and is usually polite. He takes responsibility for himself but he will also take some responsibility for others sometimes when he thinks they need him to, or when asked to, because he thinks it's the right thing to do and he wants to help them out. He will help someone without taking advantage of them and he's trustworthy. He might joke around with his friends but he doesn't insult people just for fun or to make them feel bad.

An alpha male is masculine but not that fake overly macho crap. He's a leader but not overbearing or pushy about it, he leads because he has the ability and confidence to lead and others follow him because they know he's usually right. When he makes a mistake he admits it and tries not to repeat it. He will help out his friends and is very loyal and will see weaker people, whether male or female, as somewhat his responsibility to help or guide because of his abilities or knowledge or physical attributes. He is more physical than other guys, hence the alpha thing, and while he may not physically hurt you he will make it clear that you don't insult or hurt his friends, ladies, or weaker people. He may be abrasive but he's not a bully and isn't trying to insult, he just has a thicker skin than some and doesn't understand why other people let things bother them so much. He's basically nice, but can be pushed too far and get nasty.

I don't see the nice guy as the patsy or the alpha as the bully. I think those are two separate categories. There can be, and certainly are, instances where nice guys are patsies and alphas turn into bullies, but I think in general, they are separate groups. I think nice guys are nice because of how they treat everyone, and how they think about everyone, not just about how they treat women. I also think an alpha wouldn't put up with someone hurting or disrespecting a woman, even though some may feel that his going to a strip club or watching porn, or being a player, etc, is doing the same thing.

So, I use those terms differently than you do I guess. Do you not see how they aren't always the same thing?

I'll answer this when I am not out singing karaoke with a meet up. This caught my attention. However, I would like to throw another term in there for anyone if it is ok with you Olive Oil Mom:

White Knight (my opinion is that they are worse than nice guys).

why are people who defend women bad?

But if you defend someone, anyone male or female for the sole purpose of trying to manipulate them into giving you something in return it's bad.

"I helped you so you are in my debt you must give me..."

For White Knights it is romantic or sexual favors for standing up for a woman who can defend herself...

i know it is possible to be an alpha male and be nice. i met many who were both during my medical training. my husband is not an alpha, but he is nice. he's not boring in the least. he's agreeable, sweet, intelligent, funny. the only sport he likes is gymnastics. he's an amazing poet and humorous writer. he's reliable, moral, kind, and cautious. he's affectionate. categories are often caricatures, recognizable, but not accurate.

The white knight definition as I have seen it described (and witnessed among some) are that they will be quick to defend women, but seem to believe they are owed something for it later. They are more likely to think of themselves as "God's gift to women"

The nice guy on the other hand is more likely to be nice under the pretense that he thinks people will like him for it (people in general, not exclusive to women). The alpha male as I have seen is comfortable in his own skin and isn't afraid of what others think but as Olive Oil Mom pointed out, can be nasty when pushed. Does that mean that the alpha or nice guy is bad? Not really. Same can go with the white knight (not bad either) but what I have seen the white knights are more likely to be manipulative.

not always. probably not most times. people just assume that's the reason. because why else would you defend anther human unless you have something to gain.

well its simple because all people deserve to be respected , helped when needed and defended when attacked.

now if a girl I like is attacked I do feel more upset as I care more about them. but I would and do defend anybody. but often more than not on the internet its a girl being attacked by bunch of men.

also I don't care if they can defend themselves. its not polite to call women sluts, whores, etc or to start talking sexual to them or talk about how you want to F them. some people will not defend themselves. I don't usually when I'm attacked. so I know how it feels and I try to get them to stop it when I see it.

see I've been called a nice guy by friends, mostly females.
but besides them and people at work. Its seems it and white night is only used as a bad thing.

white night often used by men saying sexual things like "I'd like to F you're sweet P***y, B***ch" or calling them sluts, or whores. then I step in to say it's wrong and mean, and they call me a white night and start bashing me.
I don't expect anything. I do get upset if later on they don't defend more or worse attack me. but thats more with thinking people are kind and caring as me. I still don't regret it I suppose. I don't like to see others attacked or hurt, or sad.

I don't get doing things in exchange for or expecting sex. besides sexual things with a consenting partner. though even then I wouldn't. however most alphas if there is such a thing, that I've seen never do anything that won't get them something in exchange. its how they get ahead. only expending resources when they will gain from it. lot more practical then always helping others for nothing I admit. but I can't help being how I am.besides it's nice to make people happy.

A guys that seems nice.

and

The pack leader of a male wolf pack.

A nice guy - a guy that adores women but that will not make contact with them until he knows there is a mutual interest

An alpha - a jerk that solicits sex from multiple women with PUA-like methods.

Alpha = Boo

Nice Guy = Not Boo

That's why male feminists are not much liked by feminists.

Feminists even suspect the guys who call themselves egalitarian.

You mean, when they aren't accusing people of being a misogynist, or worse.