I'm terrified of intimacy?
So I have a date set up for tonight. I emailed the woman and let her know my intentions. She knows that I don't want to just be friends and that if we meet, I want to kiss and hug her. I mentioned that I would take it slow as in slow paced, not slow as in we will just talk for the first date and maybe move onto kissing next time (another woman misunderstood me on my last date).
I often noticed that women always seem super nervous around me. It makes me feel like I'm a hunter and the women are like the scared rabbits. This woman I will meet with tonight (if she doesn't flake) is really attractive and although I don't want to mess it up, I want to do some kissing and hugging tonight.
I know that women are emotional creatures and they can't just go right into kissing like men can. Knowing this, I will talk with her a little while, but I have always had trouble with escalating conversations from nonsexual to sexual, without sounding creepy.
For example, one time I was on a date with a woman that actually became my ex gf (still don't know how that even happened). She was really hot, so I was super nervous. My heart was pounding in my chest and I was sweating. I drank a couple beers to calm down, but it barely helped. While we were alone together at this park at night, I remember bsing her with random small talk for way too long because while I was doing the small talk, I was thinking about when to make my move at the same time. It is this strange thing I always do and I really want to know if other people do this as well.
Like I will be talking about my stupid job or something I did with friends, blah blah and while I'm talking about this I will be bored out of my mind and I will be thinking of whether I should just move in for a kiss or if I should transition into a compliment first?
I'm so terrified of intimacy, that I will often move in for a kiss when the woman isn't expecting it. I will often notice when woman is sitting next to me, she seems stiff and doesn't really make eye contact with me. She is always looking straight ahead and glances at me once in a while...even when she likes me? Is my face creepy or intimidating? I do modeling part time, so I know I'm not ugly.
I noticed that this is usually a 50/50 gamble. Half the women I try to suddenly kiss on a date move away and reject me and the other half will let me kiss them. One other problem I often have is that most women that let me kiss them, don't let me keep kissing them. They will stop out of the blue and when I ask what is wrong, they always say something like "I don't know." It drives me nuts. I have good hygiene (brush, floss, breath mints) and I'm not a bad kisser. I don't always "move too fast" because some of the women who had agreed to making out and even sex with me are doing this?
I will post in some PUA forums as well I guess, but I thought I would see if I could relate to people on here and if anyone has good advice on how to go about this in a smoother manner. I don't want advice such as: Don't move so fast, take it slow, etc. I'm quite tired of the friendzone, that you very much lol.
I have always noticed that the more attractive the woman is, the more intense my fear of intimacy is?
PUA kind of explains your f**ked up approach. This is not going to end well.
If you really are a pretty attractive guy, then you certainly don't need this kind of f**ked up approach.
The "friend-zone" probably is a much better result than what you will get by mixing PUA with ND preferences. You will scare away any interested NDs with your too fast approach, but then you might catch an NT, and then we will have another NT woman complaining about her guy, and probably eventually dumping you. Because PUA is not an end-means for an ND, rather it's only the beginning. Once you have caught your NT woman, you will need to continue to play games with her as long as you are together.
Here's some friendly advice: don't ever do that again. Sounds like you have already decided how the date is going to go and her feelings aren't relevant. That's borderline creepy and might have some women worrying you might be a predator.
I would be nervous around you too. They probably feel like you ARE a hunter!
Incorrect. My woman is not nearly as emotional as I am, nor are the past couple I dated. Yes, some are emotional ut women aren't all the same. It's also false about the kissing: plenty of women were ready for a kiss within an hour with me.
PUA? Friendzone?
I have to agree with the other replies I would be very put off by someone who had decide how things were going to go before the date even happened.
Also maybe instead of having BS small talk it might be worth taking an actual interest. Women can tell if you only want one thing and it is a put off
I agree with other replies as well, especially GiantHockeyFan's. It takes two to tange to make a date successful. Telling the very woman in advance what you will do on a date, will scare her.
I would act as follows (just thinking, not telling her): I will see how the date will go.
For me it would be best, when she started kissing me, if she wants. I am too scared to initiate kissing, especially if I cannot make something out of her body language. If she initiates, I will "join" kissing when I am ready for it. Otherwise I will do a step backwards or I turn my head, so that the kiss will land on my cheek instead of my mouth (but she can take that as a rejection).
I have recently looked at body languages from women when they know I am attracted to her. Also at my own body language.
When I look at a woman I am not attracted to, I will look at her for a few seconds and then ignore her.
When I look at a woman I am attracted to, I will repeat looking at her, but each time I look it is less than a second. I also start to feel slightly anxious. That can be noticed by her, but not always. When I talk to a hot woman, I don't likely show that behaviour.
What do women do, when they notice I am attracted to her? That can be different. They sometimes smile. I don't notice uneasiness at her.
What do women do, which makes me think they are attracted to me? They can stare at me for a very long time. That can scare me. Or the following: I am minding my business, not noticing a woman is staring at me. Then I look up. The woman that was looking at me, seems to feel to be caught and stops looking at me. Then I stop looking at her, minding with my business again. Then it repeats a few times. It means that she stares at me the whole time, I am not looking at her.
When I look at a woman I am attracted to, I will repeat looking at her, but each time I look it is less than a second. I also start to feel slightly anxious. That can be noticed by her, but not always. When I talk to a hot woman, I don't likely show that behaviour.
That's the neurodiverse (ND) variant. NTs won't do it that way, but both ND males and females will do it the same way.
Looking at someone you have no chance to get close to is only good for wasting your time and letting them know the power they have over you, in the unlikely event that it wasn’t obvious already.
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It's not a power-game if done the right way between NDs. In fact, there are no power games in the natural ND courtship process at all. Those are only part of NTs courtship.
I know this approach is pretty alpha and too forward, but it does work with certain women. Last night, I started flirting with a woman on the street, but this time I made sure she was single and didn't put my arm around her until she was showing signs of interest. We ended up making out and doing more at a park where there were no people around.
I don't think being direct and open-minded is bad at all as long as I'm making sure the woman is single and comfortable with any physical contact before I initiate anything.
Yes, the kind you do NOT want to get into a relationship with. I know a guy who slept with a different girl every night but they all have one thing in common: I would not want to touch any of them with a ten foot pole.
Given that you did not even acknowledge what anybody here said I doubt this thread is going to help or change you but hopefully someone in a similar situation will learn from it.
RetroGamer87
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So have you all come here to help the OP or to criticize him? It's easy to find fault in his approach but why not suggest what he should do instead?
From my own experience it is an absolute must to make contact before the end of the first date. It need not be overtly sexual. I remember one date I went on two years ago. I didn't touch the girl at all and then after she texted back to ask why I didn't like her.
I didn't think I had said I didn't like her. Not in words but for her I said it through my actions. Because I wouldn't touch her. Just imagine how much I hurt that poor girl's feelings by making her feel so loathsome that a guy can't even bring himself to touch her in the most innocuous way.
After that I made a resolution that I would always touch her in some innocent way before the date's end. The next girl was my girlfriend for six weeks. The after that has been my girlfriend for three months and counting. The first, I laid my hands on hers for our first date and kissed her on our second. For my current girlfriend, on our first date I spent a lot of time with my hand on her back and kissed her at the end of the first date.
Remember that girls want to be touched. They don't want to be alone any more than we do. Most of all girls want to feel desirable, not so repulsive as to be untouchable. If on the first date you touch them in some inoffensive way, in the vast majority of cases they won't react badly. More often then not they'll touch you back twice as much as you touched them.
The reason for this is that girls may want physical contact but they will almost never initiate it. Once you initiate contact you open the gates for them to continue it, to intensify it should they so desire. You may think our culture says we must wait for a girl's permission to touch you, I tell you, she's waiting for your permission. You touch her, that gives her permission to touch you back.
The unfortunate double standard of our society is that for all their lives girls are taught they must not take initiative in a relationship. For them it is taboo. I don't condone this sexist double standard but it is not in our power to change it. This we must accept.
I'm not saying you should touch her in an overtly sexual way too soon. For my current girlfriend this didn't happen until our second date, yet still, it was I, not her who took the initiative. It was just what she'd been waiting for. So long as you don't take things too fast, even if you go a bit too far the girl will lightly chastise you in the majority of cases. My first girlfriend, when I motioned my hand towards her panties she lightly pushed my hand away and gently said "not yet". She did not react disproportionately.
Remember that we live in a world ruled by NTs so we must play by their rules. The majority of the girls you'll date will be NT. They're not the sort to ask "can I kiss you". At least not in words. They have whole two way conversations without uttering a sound. You're sitting on the couch. You lean towards her, that's asking. She leans towards you and closes her eyes, that's her answering "Yes". You kiss. This principle can be extended through all the stages of intimacy.
Remember whatever you want to do, ask but don't ask with words. Forget about visual body language, you'll be so close you can't see her. Instead focus on kinesthetic body language. Feel how she moves towards you, let her hands guide yours wherever she may want them. You'll be amazed at the conversations you can have without words.
In some ways the NT approach isn't all that bad. They've had a long time to perfect it.
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From my own experience it is an absolute must to make contact before the end of the first date. It need not be overtly sexual. I remember one date I went on two years ago. I didn't touch the girl at all and then after she texted back to ask why I didn't like her.
I didn't think I had said I didn't like her. Not in words but for her I said it through my actions. Because I wouldn't touch her. Just imagine how much I hurt that poor girl's feelings by making her feel so loathsome that a guy can't even bring himself to touch her in the most innocuous way.
After that I made a resolution that I would always touch her in some innocent way before the date's end. The next girl was my girlfriend for six weeks. The after that has been my girlfriend for three months and counting. The first, I laid my hands on hers for our first date and kissed her on our second. For my current girlfriend, on our first date I spent a lot of time with my hand on her back and kissed her at the end of the first date.
Remember that girls want to be touched. They don't want to be alone any more than we do. Most of all girls want to feel desirable, not so repulsive as to be untouchable. If on the first date you touch them in some inoffensive way, in the vast majority of cases they won't react badly. More often then not they'll touch you back twice as much as you touched them.
The reason for this is that girls may want physical contact but they will almost never initiate it. Once you initiate contact you open the gates for them to continue it, to intensify it should they so desire. You may think our culture says we must wait for a girl's permission to touch you, I tell you, she's waiting for your permission. You touch her, that gives her permission to touch you back.
The unfortunate double standard of our society is that for all their lives girls are taught they must not take initiative in a relationship. For them it is taboo. I don't condone this sexist double standard but it is not in our power to change it. This we must accept.
I'm not saying you should touch her in an overtly sexual way too soon. For my current girlfriend this didn't happen until our second date, yet still, it was I, not her who took the initiative. It was just what she'd been waiting for. So long as you don't take things too fast, even if you go a bit too far the girl will lightly chastise you in the majority of cases. My first girlfriend, when I motioned my hand towards her panties she lightly pushed my hand away and gently said "not yet". She did not react disproportionately.
Remember that we live in a world ruled by NTs so we must play by their rules. The majority of the girls you'll date will be NT. They're not the sort to ask "can I kiss you". At least not in words. They have whole two way conversations without uttering a sound. You're sitting on the couch. You lean towards her, that's asking. She leans towards you and closes her eyes, that's her answering "Yes". You kiss. This principle can be extended through all the stages of intimacy.
Remember whatever you want to do, ask but don't ask with words. Forget about visual body language, you'll be so close you can't see her. Instead focus on kinesthetic body language. Feel how she moves towards you, let her hands guide yours wherever she may want them. You'll be amazed at the conversations you can have without words.
In some ways the NT approach isn't all that bad. They've had a long time to perfect it.
All this you suggest is probably good advice, but only for guys going for NT women. If you're dating among ND women, you may want to rely on verbal communication and stating things outright and obviously otherwise you will both miss out or misunderstand the other's intentions. Plus not all ND women are keen on being touched by guys they just met, whether on a date or not.
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The_Face_of_Boo
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When I look at a woman I am attracted to, I will repeat looking at her, but each time I look it is less than a second. I also start to feel slightly anxious. That can be noticed by her, but not always. When I talk to a hot woman, I don't likely show that behaviour.
That's the neurodiverse (ND) variant. NTs won't do it that way, but both ND males and females will do it the same way.
NDs are supposedly so few and hidden in the world, you people (you and someone else I won't name) advising him that he should go for NDs are being so unrealistic.
Yes, we'll have to date NTs - because we won't probably meet any ND in our lifetimes.
Please, be realistic and give feasible advice.
Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 20 Apr 2016, 4:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The_Face_of_Boo
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Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
Nuerodiversity includes Nuerotypicals, it is not mutually exclusive. That is the whole point of that concept. Both of those ideas are concepts.
Also the idea that NDs behave in a certain way, shows lack of understanding of what the word diversity means.
^
I know it's all nonsense 0_equals_true, check this one https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... e-genetics --> this proves your point that the whole ND vs NT thing is nonsense.
but I am playing along with the ND believers, arguing them based on their beliefs; honestly....there's a cult-like thinking going on here on WP among some members, in fact, it had always been the case here since my day 1 here.
And honestly, the quest to find another aspie who happens to be living nearby, to be of the opposite sex (or same sex...depending on your orientation), to like her enough + she likes you back enough... is like playing lottery.